Visually sexing young snakes

[Yutyrannus]

I have two plainbelly water snakes (Nerodia erythrogaster alta). I know they are opposite sexes but I am having some issues distinguishing which is which.

Could you tell me what you think of the pics? I think I see hemipenal bulges on one of them but again, I have my doubts and I am new to sexing. Thanks in advance!

 

[Beyond GenetiX]

Just by looking at the pictures, I would say female is top and male is bottom picture.

 

[Yutyrannus]

Just by looking at the pictures, I would say female is top and male is bottom picture.

What are you going by? I'd like to know how so that I can tell the sexes of whatever babies I get next.

 

[Pasodama]

It really is not the easiest thing based on just these two pics.
By venturing a guess, I believe mine would be opposite of Jason's. I would say male, top, and female, bottom.
Reasons being is that, in the bottom pic, the tail ~appears~ to taper rather quickly. In the top pic, it does not ~appear~ to taper, as quickly, and it ~appears~ to have that slight pinch, just behind the vent, that many males have.
'Course, I could be wrong.
BTW Snakes don't have hemipenal bulges, per se.

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[Pasodama]

Am starting to second guess myself. LoL
It would be great if you could post side pics along with underbelly pics (and take underbelly pics in as close to same positions as possible).

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[Yutyrannus]

It really is not the easiest thing based on just these two pics.
By venturing a guess, I believe mine would be opposite of Jason's. I would say male, top, and female, bottom.
Reasons being is that, in the bottom pic, the tail ~appears~ to taper rather quickly. In the top pic, it does not ~appear~ to taper, as quickly, and it ~appears~ to have that slight pinch, just behind the vent, that many males have.
'Course, I could be wrong.
BTW Snakes don't have hemipenal bulges, per se.

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You're going by the same logic I was using, lol

 

[Yutyrannus]

Am starting to second guess myself. LoL
It would be great if you could post side pics along with underbelly pics (and take underbelly pics in as close to same positions as possible).

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one sec, theyre really feisty haha

 

[Pasodama]

This thread is making me wish I could reach in to the pics, and grab the snakes, so I could pop, or probe, them for you. LoL

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[Yutyrannus]

In the original post, top one is Ronnie, bottom is Fraug.
Here's the new pics (it's the best I could do, they only sat still for about 4 seconds until wanting to get away again)...

 

[Yutyrannus]

This thread is making me wish I could reach in to the pics, and grab the snakes, so I could pop, or probe, them for you. LoL

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Haha. If only things were that easy...

 

[Pasodama]

The side pics needed to show entire tail or, at least, the entire first half. That said, I do know how hard it can be to photograph water snakes while "in hand".

These pics have me slightly conflicted but I think I will go with my initial guess.

Something else you could try, if there is nobody nearby to pop/probe, is putting the two together. Only long enough to determine behavior. To see if the male will try courting the female.
If one starts following the other, attempting to "ride" the other, etc., etc., that would, highly likely, be the male.
You can separate them as soon as you determine their behavior and before any actual breeding occurs.

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[Yutyrannus]

The side pics needed to show entire tail or, at least, the entire first half. That said, I do know how hard it can be to photograph water snakes while "in hand".

These pics have me slightly conflicted but I think I will go with my initial guess.

Something else you could try, if there is nobody nearby to pop/probe, is putting the two together. Only long enough to determine behavior. To see if the male will try courting the female.
If one starts following the other, attempting to "ride" the other, etc., etc., that would, highly likely, be the male.
You can separate them as soon as you determine their behavior and before any actual breeding occurs.

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Little dudes are only about 2 months old, so that wouldn't really occur either way

 

[Pasodama]

Try the following:

Look at their heads.
The female's head is likely to be a bit "heavier" than the male's.

Look at size/lengths.
While female's are longer, overall (than the male), the male's tail is proportionately a little longer than a female's (from vent to tail tip).

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[Beyond GenetiX]

Am starting to second guess myself.

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Agreed, it's tough sometimes to tell in person but more so in pictures.

 

[Pasodama]

Little dudes are only about 2 months old, so that wouldn't really occur either way

LoL That is true.
Didn't even take into account their small size indicating "babies". A "duh" moment.

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[Beyond GenetiX]

In the first picture it looks like the "bulge" ends about 9-10 scales from the vent, in the second picture it looks to be about 4-6. I could be wrong, it's much easier with western hognoses.

I wouldn't mind meeting somewhere to help you out but it would have to be after the holidays.

 

[Pasodama]

I wouldn't mind meeting somewhere to help you out but it would have to be after the holidays.

That is so nice, of you, Jason.

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[LLLReptile Chris MacHale]

The males gonna have a longer tail.