Vote***financing Fauna***vote

[snakegetters]

Wouldn't we be leaving out the minors? From what we have seen over the years in the BOI they are quite a large group, and also the future of our hobby/industry. What about those that for one reason or another don't have current access to a credit card?

I didn't say, "implement it". I said, "research it". I'm not completely sure it would be a feasible model, but we might be able to learn something from the third party verification sites and how they work. It's possible that methods of verification currently available may be able to function without a credit card; I don't know.

However, since Fauna is *not* a pay per view porno site, what would be wrong with asking minors to have their parents sign them up on a verification site using a credit card? The minors in this hobby that we want to hear from are not the ones hiding snakes under the bed so that Mom doesn't find out.

 

[shrap]

Once again just my observations and my opinion.

Like I said, I was really torn on this issue and completely understand where you are coming from. I just feel the good will far out weigh the bad in the long run.

There is not going to be a perfect solution that is going to be perfectly acceptable to everyone. It is just not possible or it would already be implemented. I do feel that a scenario like the one you outlined is possible, but I think that would be the exception, not the norm.

On the flip side, maybe we will not see as many false claims either, if people are having to pay to make false claims. More food for thought.

 

[KelliH]

I might research the model that adult sites use for age verification, and require a credit card to sign up whether or not a fee was charged.

Wow, what a fantastic idea.

 

[bcfos]

Wow, what a fantastic idea.

It is for age verification only so you don't have any problems with title 18 legalities with the feds. For membership it is a little more complex. Most ccbill company's requires the addy on the card to match the addy you sign up with. Plus the CID number must be entered along with other verifying items. this if for fraud protection. As far as site protection it is common to use a server who is more adept to your sites needs.

So it would not work here because it is only age verification. I think maybe I should donate some red pots like the salvation army uses and let certain members here camp out on the homepage.

 

[reptilebreeder]

So yes to them $10.00 maybe alot. But just because they can't afford the membership fee (could be using that to feed the animals). They are automatically guilty of being a scammer because they can't afford to pay the fee??


While I agree I can spend $10 without even thinking of it there are others who are right at the edge. Where that $10 can be food for a few days, could feed a few snakes, etc..etc..

So I guess what I am saying is are we to disregard the hobbyist for the business people??


Once again just my observations and my opinion.

Still one of the biggest supposed downfalls, ie. being broke. As I posted earlier, I couldn't afford to add any snakes to my collection, last year, so I'm not saying this as one of a small handful of people who actually make money in this field. It all comes down to what you think the site is worth, to me it's worth $10 to be able to research my prospective purchase, whether it saves me from being burned on a $25 corn snake or a $5,000 BP.

And as a poor person and a hobbyist, if $10 means the difference between feeding yourself or your snakes then a person in my opinion is being quite irresponsible by owning snakes. They need to sell their snakes (hopefully they don't get burned, cause they didn't pay the $10 to research the BOI) until such time as they can afford to feed them and take care of any unexpected costs ie. Vet bills, light/heat bulb burn out (these can cost much more than $10), etc.

 

[WebSlave]

And as a poor person and a hobbyist, if $10 means the difference between feeding yourself or your snakes then a person in my opinion is being quite irresponsible by owning snakes. They need to sell their snakes (hopefully they don't get burned, cause they didn't pay the $10 to research the BOI) until such time as they can afford to feed them and take care of any unexpected costs ie. Vet bills, light/heat bulb burn out (these can cost much more than $10), etc.

Interesting perspective that I hadn't really considered.

If you can't afford $10, then what the heck do you need to post on the BOI for anyway? You certainly can't be looking to buy animals from someone, now can you? Or should you? Perhaps you need to sell some animals, and the $10 fee is too high for you there as well? Well, I don't know what to tell you about that, but I think you need to make a major change in your lifestyle. Perhaps this $10 fee should be considered as your wakeup call.

Those are the people most likely to fall victims to a bad guy. Why? Because those are the people most likely to fall for the "deal too good to be true". They will get $$ in their eyes thinking they will buy that "steal" then turn it around immediately for a colossal profit. Most scammers use greed as the primary bait in their scams.

 

[snakegetters]

If you can't afford $10, then what the heck do you need to post on the BOI for anyway?

When I've been low on cash, I haven't skimped on animal care, but I have skimped on other things that were not necessities. Internet connectivity is not a necessity. Neither is a pay-for-info web site. So yes, there are people who aren't going to budget $10 for a web site who might really be in a position to use it, or to contribute towards its useful information base.

 

[WebSlave]

When I've been low on cash, I haven't skimped on animal care, but I have skimped on other things that were not necessities. Internet connectivity is not a necessity. Neither is a pay-for-info web site. So yes, there are people who aren't going to budget $10 for a web site who might really be in a position to use it, or to contribute towards its useful information base.

Oh well. I never was one much for lowering my standards to meet a lowest common denominator level. That's $10 PER YEAR...... Not PER MONTH, nor PER WEEK, but PER YEAR. I'm sorry, but I just would find it incredulous that anyone would try to get me to believe that they could not afford that amount. No, it's NOT a necessity. But then again, neither is it a necessity to be buying animals and wanting to check up on a prospective seller. As I said before, anyone in that kind of position needs to take a long hard look at their life and make some changes.

Oh and the point was brought up somewhere about kids not affording to pay this fee. Well, that certainly is a valid point, but personally, I don't believe anyone should be doing business with minors anyway. So they really have no business posting on the BOI or in the classifieds section trying to sell things.

My opinion, of course.

 

[Dennis Hultman]

Oh well. I never was one much for lowering my standards to meet a lowest common denominator level. That's $10 PER YEAR...... Not PER MONTH, nor PER WEEK, but PER YEAR. I'm sorry, but I just would find it incredulous that anyone would try to get me to believe that they could not afford that amount. No, it's NOT a necessity. But then again, neither is it a necessity to be buying animals and wanting to check up on a prospective seller. As I said before, anyone in that kind of position needs to take a long hard look at their life and make some changes.
QUOTE]

Agreed

I still would pay the twenty five

 

[Dennis Hultman]

And I still dont get this! People feel like the end of the world is coming if they have to pay for a Service.

And it is the people who use the service the the most, that say they are going to run for the door first.

Hey thanks for the really swell site, Rich, but if you charge money for it so you can maybe make a buck instead of doing it all for free, well heck, I would pay the fee.

--------------

This is a great site I have contributed maybe only a hundred dollars in the last couple of months between contributions and auctions and will continue to help support the site.

Just my opinion and nobody take it personally, I just cannot understand the people that spend so much of their time here and have over a thousand posts under their belts can't even contribute $25.00 to the site.

I think by the time someone actually has established himself or herself here and by after posting two or three hundred times they would see the value of the site and would be willing to pay a yearly fee.

If you charged a fee after a certain amount of posts would give the new person a chance to see what this site has to offer. Which will keep it free for the casual user. If they do not contribute after that they are just trolling around and delete the user name. Plain and simple. If they have established their name they are not going to give it up to reregister a fake name.

As far as the classifieds, you have to pay to earn anything. I would love to go to my local newspaper and tell them I want to put up an ad but do not charge me or I will not buy your newspaper anymore. You think it would work?

Rich, do what you think is best. I think this is a great route, you keep everything free for the casual poster (non-classified) and viewer and charge the rest.

I think both sides of this issue wins, people have access but when they drive your costs up (time, effort, server) they pay.

P.S.
When you start printing those t-shirts Rich, do not forget the hats.

 

[Milwaukee Reptiles]

Pay For Classifieds?

I voted for higher advertising costs and higher fines (I would bet that a lot of people who get fined don't pay anyway).

My idea is this: $1 to $2 for each classified ad you post. Run it on an E-bay like pricing system (where highlight is an $1, bold is another $1, double the length of the add for $1, ect.) Basically extra features cost extra money.

I would guess that this would bring in a steady flow (I image that a few hundred dollars a month at least). Viewing would still be free, the BOI would still be free, but listing a classified ad would cost an amount. Combined with increased advertising fees, that should help.

I think membership fees will just deter advertisers, viewers, posters, ect.

 

[WebSlave]

I voted for higher advertising costs and higher fines (I would bet that a lot of people who get fined don't pay anyway).

I wish I were hearing this from people who were actually already running banner advertisements here. But I am not.

And no, most people fined do not pay the fines. It is far too easy to bypass it and re-register under a new name at no cost.

My idea is this: $1 to $2 for each classified ad you post. Run it on an E-bay like pricing system (where highlight is an $1, bold is another $1, double the length of the add for $1, ect.) Basically extra features cost extra money.

I would guess that this would bring in a steady flow (I image that a few hundred dollars a month at least). Viewing would still be free, the BOI would still be free, but listing a classified ad would cost an amount. Combined with increased advertising fees, that should help.

Been there, done that. I started up the highlighted classified ads back around mid November of last year. To date, 124 ads have been paid for to highlight. Figuring on PayPal taking their cut out of each of those $1 transactions, I get 67 cents per highlight. So, to date, that program has netted me a grand total of $83.08. That is not even close to what it cose me to have my programmer implement this capability.

So what is this telling me?

 

[The BoidSmith]

Oh and the point was brought up somewhere about kids not affording to pay this fee. Well, that certainly is a valid point, but personally, I don't believe anyone should be doing business with minors anyway. So they really have no business posting on the BOI or in the classifieds section trying to sell things.

My opinion, of course.

And that would have been me. Although some people say this site is a joke or for entertainment only I have it in much higher regards. During the years the site has taught me a lot. And it keeps teaching me every day. Just imagine what it can do for the next generation of herp enthusiasts? Furthermore I think we would be really surprised at the number of under aged people posting in here on a daily basis. Some pretty well centered and mature for their age. It would be a shame to leave them out of the “conversation” and lessons learned just because they are not supposed to buy or sell.

Regards

 

[WebSlave]

And that would have been me. Although some people say this site is a joke or for entertainment only I have it in much higher regards. During the years the site has taught me a lot. And it keeps teaching me every day. Just imagine what it can do for the next generation of herp enthusiasts? Furthermore I think we would be really surprised at the number of under aged people posting in here on a daily basis. Some pretty well centered and mature for their age. It would be a shame to leave them out of the “conversation” and lessons learned just because they are not supposed to buy or sell.

Regards

Well, I have a confession to make here. I did not set up this site with children in mind. Whew! Glad I have that off my chest now! :laugh:

vBulletin has a COPPA compliant registration system in place that is used to deal with children under 13 years of age that want to frequent this site. It is a procedure that forces a child to get their parent's permission and they are supposed to fax me that permission in writing. Well, heck with that. Like I have time to deal with that sort of thing? I have this site set to just deny registration to any child 13 years old or younger. It has been that way for quite a long time, and I don't really see where it has had any negative impact on this site at all. Is it right to do? Beats me. I saw no reason to dwell on it very long. But it was the option with the lesser number of headaches attached to it, and that is what I chose to do.

The same sort of logic will be applying on what I decide to do with this site. In a lot of cases, the easiest route (for me) will be the one that is the most attractive. I have seen some complicated alternatives offered by people in the threads related to this membership fee proposal, and the thought going through my mind while reading some of them was "who the heck is going to program this stuff or pay some programmer to implement it?" The second thought was "ALL of this just to avoid paying a $10 fee?" I am supposed to bend over backwards to come up with some complicated alternative, make the efforts and expenses myself to save a few people from having to spend $10 to get what THEY want from this site? Excuse me if I find that an unreasonable position to support.

Granted, most people are not programmers, and likely don't have a clue what would be involved with implementing some of the things they come up with. But I would think that if you have trouble describing what you are talking about in 100 words or less and it SOUNDS complicated to you, it probably is a non-workable suggestion.

So yes, I did ask for alternatives. But they have to be realistic and able to be implemented with no substantial monetary outlay from me, and able to be managed with a very minimal amount of manual intervention on my part.

Actually I am not very comfortable with the membership fee virtually requiring that someone go through PayPal for payment. But this capability is native within this message board, and it is extremely easy to implement. This is a key criteria of my requirements. But that in itself may be a hurtle for some people, because certainly PayPal is big enough that they have most certainly pissed of a small percentage of people enough that they refuse to use it. Oh well. Nothing is perfect, I guess. But then again, I never claimed that it would be.

 

[The Reptile House]

I like this site and use it and read it every day, often many times a day. Whatever happens(charging for the classifieds) please make it so that we can put up pics on all our adds instead of limiting us and having us link the pics from the photo gallery. I have so many pics in the forums that I can not get rid of that I can not post new pics for people to view my pics on the add. I feel it is hurting my slaes.
OR
Make it some way that forum threads are only up for 2-3 months. Like I stated I have asked several times for help in verifying a pic for me, well that thread really no longer needs to be there due to I got several replys but that is a notch in the # of pics I can post. Is there something can be done about that?
I also think the BOI needs to remain free and just to charge for the classifieds. Shanell

 

[WebSlave]

I like this site and use it and read it every day, often many times a day. Whatever happens(charging for the classifieds) please make it so that we can put up pics on all our adds instead of limiting us and having us link the pics from the photo gallery. I have so many pics in the forums that I can not get rid of that I can not post new pics for people to view my pics on the add. I feel it is hurting my slaes.
OR
Make it some way that forum threads are only up for 2-3 months. Like I stated I have asked several times for help in verifying a pic for me, well that thread really no longer needs to be there due to I got several replys but that is a notch in the # of pics I can post. Is there something can be done about that?
I also think the BOI needs to remain free and just to charge for the classifieds. Shanell

At one time, I did put in a cap for attachments (photos) within the forums on that site, but after some reflection, I decided it was not a good idea at all and removed the limits. You should be able to attach as many photos as you want within your messages and ads. There are caps in place, however, for photos posted within the photo gallery attached to this site.

There is no way to put in a time limit for ads posted in the classifieds forums without custom programming.

 

[Nokturnel Tom]

My 2 cents.......

Leave the forums and BOI free, although donations are certainly acceptable. However in comparison to what other sites may charge to post ads 35 bucks a year is very reasonable, even cheap in my opinion. I also think the auctions to help Fauna out are good for everyone. The sellers get to promote themselves, buyers get healthy animals and Fauna gets a donation. Please leave the BOI free, it is the greatest site on the net to help people gain confidence in doing business other than face to face. Tom Stevens

 

[JAOA49]

Chalk one more for the paid contrib's

PayPal:

Item/Product Name: Option B - FC Official Contributor Subscription

Alright lol I suppose I got my coin now

Although I'm not paying for server costs I researched how much it does cost and just about choked.... From what I saw its nearly 350 dollars... I don't know how much Rich pays but I remember owning a website and I didn't like it all to well when I got the bill...

Rich.... ever thought about buying a Server???? If we would all band together and help pay for the cost of one you wouldn't need to worry about the huge bill.... only from your high speed ISP

I have done alot of thinking and thought that 25 bucks is gonna come out anyways so I might as well pay it... Anything to help...

Just a Thought,
-Jacob

 

[robin d.]

Rich, it seems you have already made up your mind regardless of what the majority has voted.
One thing you might want to look into is by closing the BOI to no longer a public forum.. it would be a paid for site is the legalities associated with it.
second, you are banking on the bad guys, because the bad guy threads get more views than the good guys and much more responce.... originally it was about the bad guys now it about expoloiting the bad guys to make some cash.
ok so lets say you put the paid BOI into working order... shoot you know people will be pass it and just use trader ratings or general business discussion area ect.
i would be willing to bet in a day your number of hits drop drastically
by closing the BOI (paid members only), this sites draw, you are going to kill the whole enchalada
some of other sites have a BOI and charging for yours will make people go to these othersites where they can post both good and bad experiences for free
you are about to shoot yourself in the foot and you dont even know it yet... aside from the numbers you will lose the thing that i wonder about more than anything is the legal implications
i would just like to know one thing... we have contributed monies for some time now
what are the cost to run this site? or have we in the past been helping you to perhaps fund your ongoging feud with jeff b.

but like i said you have already made up your mind and i think it was quite some time ago , when you implimented all the new fandangled bells and whistles
i wish you well but unfortunately i think your choice will be the undoing of this entire site... and i hate to see that because i have been coming to fauna for some time (since it's beginings) and i like this site... it has becoome my reptile "home"
anyways that is all i have to say i am sure it will fall on deaf ears.. i do not expect a reply or want to hear excuses or whatever these are just my thoughts and opinions

 

[WebSlave]

Robin, just because someone listens to what you say and evaluates your opinions without coming to the same conclusions as you do, does not mean it falls on deaf ears. What it means is that someone else, presented the same facts, or maybe others you are not considering, has come to a different conclusion.

Oh, and as I posted in another thread, I am quite prepared for this site to go down the tubes if the alternative is that I work myself to death for free to keep it alive. That is no longer an option.