WARNING: GRAPHIC CONTENT:Pythons yield hides for specialty items

[Twizted Paths]

Article that says he violated the licensing rules

Haven't had the time/patience to go find the rules themselves yet.

 

[WingedWolf]

He violated the licensing rules by transporting the snakes alive from where they were captured. They are supposed to be killed on the spot, never moved while alive.

 

[R. Eventide]

This winter killed a very large percentage of burms in the ENP. The information for some reason has not yet been released, I wonder why. There are tests being done where the burms have radio transmitters in them. The rumor is, all of the burms with radio transmitters died from the cold. The person who actually does the tracking has said publically that a high number of them died, but will not say how many, and even though he said this, it was off the record. Just so you know, he posted this in the Kingsnake burm forum, if you would like to go see for yourself. This information for some reason is being held back.

Information that makes the fear-mongerers look bad will always be suppressed.

The method for killing a snake really has to depend on what is going to be done with the remanes. Chopping the head off is not the best way to kill a snake, but, they were not only using the hide for leather, but they were going to eat the meat. Lethel injection might be the most humane way to kill a snake, but then the meat is useless, you can't eat it once the chemicals are injected into the animal. The head does live for about an hour, and it is fully aware of what is going on. At least these people are using as much of the snake as they can and not just throwing it in a ditch where it will just rot away.

I don't quite see how sedatives would make the meat inedible.... Are there really no other animals, used for meat sources, that are killed without sedatives?

My goal, and everyone's goal should be to do whatever it takes to save our hobby. If it means catching and killing wild, nonnative burms, then it needs to be done. Instead of arguing and calling each other names, think of better ways to help our industry. The last thing we need is to be fighting amoungst ourselves. If you want to fight, then fight the people wanting to take away our animals, they are the enemy.

While I agree with you in principle, I get scared when people use the phrase "whatever it takes." For me, the ends never justify the means. Besides, the welfare of the animals should be placed at the top--far above the hobby. (I'm not pointing fingers at you; I'm speaking in general terms since there are definitely people out there who will do whatever it takes to save their hobby, even if that means the animals get the short end of the stick.)

 

[scaledverts]

Someone else mentioned that these animals are not pets and need to be killed. What do you think happens to the PETS that are turned in in Floridas "pet amnesty" roundups? They probably wind up in the same place while their owners have to live with what they did for their pets own good.

Are you actually serious with the "pet amnesty" day comment? Have you ever ACTUALLY attended one of these events or are you just talking out of your ? This could not be farther from the truth. Please educate yourself before you come on here and say something stupid like that!

Thanks

 

[scaledverts]

I should also mention that one of the methods that is most commonly accepted as "humane" euthanasia for amphibians and reptiles is double pithing. The double pith method involves first severing the brain stem and all of the associated cranial nerves by cutting the top of the head off at the back of the jaw in a backward direction. The second pith is performed to sever any remaining spinal nerves and involves using a metal probe of some sort inserted into the spinal cord. This method is one of the methods of euthanasia for most animal care and use committees at major universities (IACUC) and the association for assessment and accreditation of laboratory animal care (AAALAC). Other methods of humane euthanasia invovle administering some sort of anesthetic such as sodium pentobarbitol or MS-222. You can find a substantial amount of information regarding the use of reptiles and amphibians in research at the American Society of Ichthyologists and Herpetologists website here: http://www.asih.org/files/hacc-final.pdf.

 

[bcherps]

Hey All,

I know this is a hot topic for a lot of people that care about herps. I am one of them. However, there is a good side to the processing.


Once we turn something into a chicken, suddenly the government will turn a blind eye. Let me expand on that.


1. We can eat burms, I have, and they are as good as gator tail, better than rattlesnake, and 20 times better than ostrich.
2. We can use burms leather. Since when have you been able to get 10k for a couple normal burm adult males?
3. We can actually grow them in captivity on rats and still make a profit-although much less than capturing feral ones.

With these three ideals we now can compare a burm to meat cattle, dairy cattle, chickens,hogs, peacock bass, or the many of the species of palm trees. All these animals are not native to north america, all of them have caused huge shifts to the local environment-from clearing farmland for space and to grow their food, to the habitat destruction feral hogs cause, and the predatory abilities of the peacock bass. But since people eat meat, drink milk, and pay for licenses to hunt hogs and catch peacock bass the government wouldn't think of banning them. In fact we protect the hog and the peacock bass with laws to prevent them from being wiped out.

Of course, humans are also an invasive species to north america-and we don't seem to be banning ourselves.

If the government determines that they can make money from the sales of meat and hides, the taxes from the employers, the taxes from employees, suddenly they will forget that burms were a problem. Currently the only way a burm makes money for the government is through permits, only about 500 in florida which actually doesn't cover costs, and some dealers submitting sales taxes. Although so many reptile dealers do it as a hobby, under the table becuase they don't know any better, we don't know who to remit taxes to in internet sales, or straight up won't become a real business the government has never seen how much money it would make off us.

If you look at safety, a child was killed by a burm that in my opinion was provoked to bite her. Look at the number of injuries to workers of cattle, look at the number of people injured in hunting injuries, boating accidents and correlate them to the activity they were doing, and the burm is still safer or equally as safe as the other "animal" activities. I myself actually have more injuries from cattle in 5 years of being a herdsman, hoof trimmer, and milker than I do in 15 years of keeping so called dangerous snakes, and 10 years of keeping dangerous(venomous) snakes combined.
But no one goes to publix to buy a steak and wonders how did this cow die, how did this cow live, did this cow kick or step on anybody while it was alive. Do they think of the land used to grow crops to feed this cow. The groudwater, and soil pollution from the pesticides used to make farming almost profitable. Nope, they just think how yummie this steak is going to be, and how cheaply can it be bought for.

And that is exactly what we need to do to the burm.

We need to show the general non-pet snake public that burms are yummie, they are just early evolution jumbo chickens. We need to show they can be farmed more ecologically efficiently than a cow. We need to show them that their leather has a ton of usages. Have you seen how much a pair of italian made burm skin high heels are? We could distract a lot of the soccer moms with the shoes alone!!!

Turning a burm into a chicken is the best thing we can do.


On the humane euthanasia side, decapitation is considered ok, although double pithing is more likely more humane. Its just as quick as the eletric bolt to the head of cattle and hogs, and actually more humane than most fishing-throw in cooler after being gaffed and hunting-no every shot is clean-which I do take part in both.

If we are going to survive this as an industry-we have to start promoting reptiles as an industry-and not just a bunch of wierdo pet owners crying why cant I have my pet.

Unfortunately this is no longer the " the land of the free". This is actually "the land of who can buy the most votes". It takes cash to buy votes, and we should have been showing the taxman, and the politician how much money is-and could be generated by this business a long time ago.


Thanks
ben

 

[JordanAng420]

Article that says he violated the licensing rules

Haven't had the time/patience to go find the rules themselves yet.

From the Florida Fish And Wildlife Conservation Commission website these are the rules for capture for folks who hold a permit.

http://myfwc.com/WILDLIFEHABITATS/Nonnative_Python_FAQs.htm

What are the requirements for capture?
Firearms and traps may not be used. The snakes can be captured by hand, with nets or snares. Pythons may be euthanized onsite by approved means, deposited at a location for euthanizing by a veterinarian, or transported to an approved facility to be used in research.

 

[CJReptiles]

Im so tired of all the python crap! Why dont we start chopping the heads off of feral cats? Read the stastics, they kill more native species than all snakes combined.. Off with their heads..

 

[CJReptiles]

U.S. Faces Growing Feral Cat Problem Maryann Mott
for National Geographic News

September 7, 2004
You may have seen them wandering through parks or languishing behind restaurants. At first, these cats look domesticated. But they're really wild animals.

Feral cats are the offspring of stray or abandoned household pets. Raised without human contact, they quickly revert to a wild state and form colonies wherever food and shelter are available.

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Many city and county animal control agencies are mandated only to deal with dogs—not cats. So for decades feral cats have remained untouchable.

Some feline experts now estimate 70 million feral cats live in the United States, the consequence of little effort to control the population and of the cat's ability to reproduce quickly.

The number concerns wildlife and ornithology organizations that believe these stealthy predators decimate bird populations and threaten public health. The organizations want the cats removed from the environment and taken to animal shelters, where they are often killed.

That's caused a chorus of hisses from feral cat advocates who say the cats are unjustly being blamed for killing wildlife. Thousands of volunteers and animal welfare groups throughout the country stepped forward in the early 1990s to control the wild cat population through mass sterilization programs.

Ron Jurek, a wildlife biologist for the California Department of Fish and Game, has kept a close eye on the impact feral and free-roaming domestic cats have on native species, like the California least tern, a federal endangered bird that nests along the coast.

"Cats do kill wildlife to a significant degree, which is not a popular notion with a lot of people," he said.

In urban areas, he said, there are hundreds of cats per square mile (1.6 square kilometers)—more cats than nature can support.

Exact numbers are unknown, but some experts estimate that each year domestic and feral cats kill hundreds of millions of birds, and more than a billion small mammals, such as rabbits, squirrels, and chipmunks.

Feline predators are believed to prey on common species, such as cardinals, blue jays, and house wrens, as well as rare and endangered species, such as piping plovers and Florida scrub jays.

For more than ten years, Jurek says, feral and domestic cats have been a persistent problem in California, killing one or two colonies of least terns each year. The small white birds are part of an intense monitoring program with a tremendous number of volunteers who watch the colonies throughout the six-month nesting season.

 

[CJReptiles]

Hawaii scientists examine feral cats
Posted 8/22/2007 4:11 PM | Comment | Recommend E-mail | Save | Print |



HILO, Hawaii (AP) — Scientists are looking at the impact of a population of feral cats roaming Mauna Kea on the Big Island. There's no count of the cats that have been found as high as the 10,000-foot elevation on the mountain's west slope, but researchers say they prey on birds and could pose a danger to humans because of the diseases they carry.
Many of the wild cats are believed to carry multiple diseases, including toxoplasmosis, which could raise concern if they start blending into feral cat populations nearer to residential areas. Toxoplasmosis, a protozoan parasite, can cause severe illness in fetuses and adults with immune system weaknesses.

The U.S. Geological Survey's Pacific Island Ecosystems Research Center on the nearby erupting volcano of Kilauea has been studying the cats, the diseases they carry and their danger to wild birds, including ground-nesting seabirds, forest birds and protected Hawaiian geese, or nene.

Most of the cats are believed to wander between the 6,500- and 9,000-foot levels, so they do not pose an immediate danger of spreading disease to Big Island residents. Scientists say they would, however, if they start mixing with domestic cats in populated areas.

The high disease rate is explained by the fact that the wild cats eat infected mice or birds, such as native crows that have picked at mice carcasses.

"A mouse gets it, and then the cat eats the mouse, and that's how the cycle goes on," Arlene Buchholz, a veterinarian with the state Department of Health, told The Honolulu Advertiser which reported the Mauna Kea cat problem in its Tuesday editions.

Paul Banko, wildlife biologist, said the feral cats also suffer from feline leukemia and immunodeficiency virus, a cat version of HIV.

But the major danger posed by the cats is to wildlife, Banko said, with evidence provided by cameras set up to monitor bird nests. Cats have been caught killing palila forest bird chicks, he said.

"They're killing just about every species that's up there," he said.

Cats have been prowling the mountain for many generations, researchers said, with reports of feral felines on the Big Island going back to 1842.

Copyright 2007 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.

 

[CJReptiles]

East Bay Regional Park District, CA: A two-year study
was conducted in two parks with grassland habitat. One park
had no cats, but more than 25 cats were being fed daily in the
other park. There were almost twice as many birds seen in the
park with no cats as in the park with cats. California Thrasher
and California Quail, both ground-nesting birds, were seen
during surveys in
the no-cat area,
whereas they
were never seen in
the cat area. In
addition, more
than 85% of the
native deer mice
and harvest mice
trapped were in the no-cat area, whereas 79% of the house
mice, an exotic pest species, were trapped in the cat area. The
researchers concluded, “Cats at artificially high densities,
sustained by supplemental feeding, reduce abundance of native
rodent and bird populations, change the rodent species
composition, and may facilitate the expansion of the house
mouse into new areas.” (Hawkins, C.C., W.E. Grant, and M.T.
Longnecker. 1999. Effect of subsidized house cats on California
birds and rodents. Transactions of the Western Section of The Wildlife

 

[CJReptiles]

How many birds and other wildlife do domestic cats
kill each year in the U.S.?
Exact numbers are unknown, but scientists estimate that nationwide,
cats kill hundreds of millions of birds, and more than a billion
small mammals, such as rabbits, squirrels, and chipmunks, each
year. Cats kill common species such as Cardinal, Blue Jay, and House
Wren, as well as rare and endangered species such as Piping Plover,
Florida Scrub-Jay, and California Least Tern.
There are more than 77 million pet cats in the United States. A
1997 nationwide poll showed that only 35% are kept exclusively
indoors, leaving the majority of owned cats free to kill birds and
other wildlife at least some of the time. In addition, millions of stray
and feral cats roam our cities, suburbs, farmlands and natural areas.
Abandoned by their owners or lost (stray), or descendants of strays
and living in the wild (feral), these cats are victims of human
irresponsibility due to abandonment and failure to spay or neuter
pets. No one knows how many homeless cats there are in the U.S.,
but estimates range from 60 to 100 million. These cats lead short,
miserable lives.
Loss of wildlife habitat
and fragmentation due
to human development
are the leading causes
of declining bird
populations. However,
scientists now list
invasive species,
including cats, as the
second most serious threat to bird populations worldwide. Habitat
fragmentation provides cats and other predators easier access to
wildlife forced to live on smaller tracts of land. Rather than havens
for wildlife, these areas can be death traps.

 

[CJReptiles]

San Diego, CA: In a study of the relationships between
coyote, mid-sized predators such as cats, and scrub-dwelling
birds, cat owners living along the rims of canyons collected
the prey their cats brought home. These canyons are isolated
pockets of habitat with species that may not occur elsewhere.
On average, each outdoor cat that hunted returned 24 rodents,
15 birds, and 17 lizards to the residence per year. Birds were
26.7% of the prey killed by cats. The researchers estimated
that cats surrounding mid-sized canyons return 840 rodents,
525 birds, and 595 lizards to residences each year. This level of
predation appears to be unsustainable. The study also found
that in small canyons where the coyote was absent, there was
an increase in mid-sized predators such as cats, and a drastic
decline in diversity or elimination of scrub-breeding birds.
But in the larger canyons where coyotes were still present, the
scrub-breeding birds were also present. (Crooks, K.R. and
M.E. Soule. 1999. Mesopredator release and avifaunal
extinctions in a fragmented system. Nature 400:563-566).

 

[CJReptiles]

Cat Predation Studies
Extensive studies of the feeding habits of free-roaming
domestic cats have been conducted over the last 55 years in
Europe, North America, Australia, Africa, and on many islands.
These studies show that the number and types of animals
killed by cats varies greatly, depending on the individual cats,
the time of year, and availability of prey. Roughly 60% to 70%
of the wildlife cats kill are small mammals; 20% to 30% are
birds; and up to 10 are amphibians, reptiles, and insects.
However, birds can be up to 100% of a cat’s prey on some
islands.
Some free-roaming domestic cats kill more than 100 animals
each year. One well-fed cat that roamed a wildlife experiment
station was recorded to have killed more than 1,600 animals
(mostly small mammals) over 18 months. Rural cats take
more prey than suburban or urban cats. Birds that nest or feed
on the ground, such as California Quail, are the most
susceptible to cat predation, as are nestlings and fledglings of
many other bird species.
The following

 

[CJReptiles]

Wisconsin: Researchers at the University of Wisconsin coupled
their four-year cat predation study with data from other studies,
and estimated that rural free-roaming cats kill at least 7.8 million
and perhaps as many as 217 million birds a year in Wisconsin.
Suburban and urban cats add to that toll. In some parts of the state,
free-roaming cat densities reach 114 cats per square mile,
outnumbering all similar-sized native predators. (Coleman, J.S.,
S.A. Temple, and S.R. Craven. 1997. Cats and Wildlife: A
Conservation Dilemma. 6 pp. www.wisc.edu/extension/
catfly3.htm). In an ongoing, but unpublished, study of cat prey
items including stomach contents, scat analysis, observations of
kills, and prey remains, birds were 19.6% of 1,976 prey captured
by 78 outdoor cats (Temple, S.A, Univ. of WI, personal
communication, 1/22/04).
Virginia: Researchers compared a free-roaming domestic pet cat
in a rural area with 4 urban cats. The rural cat captured a total of 27
native species (8 bird, 2 amphibian, 9 reptile, and 8 mammal,
including the star-nosed mole, a species of special state concern).
The 4 urban cats captured 21 native species (6 bird, 7 reptile, and 8
mammal). Between January and November 1990 each cat caught,
on average, 26 native individuals in the urban area, and 83 in the
rural area. The study did not count prey killed and completely
consumed, prey killed and left elsewhere, prey that escaped but
died later from infection or injury, or non-native prey. (Mitchell, J.
and R.A.Beck. 1992. Free-ranging domestic cat predation on native
vertebrates in rural and urban Virginia. Virginia Journal of Science
43:197-206).
Cats on Islands: Because some island bird populations evolved
in the absence of mammalian predators, they have no defense
mechanisms against them. When cats are introduced or abandoned
on an island, elimination of entire bird populations can result.
California

 

[CJReptiles]

Impacts
Australia's native plants and animals adapted to life on an isolated continent over millions of years. Since European settlement they have had to compete with a range of introduced animals for habitat, food and shelter. Some have also had to face new predators. These new pressures have also caused a major impact on our country's soil and waterways and on its native plants and animals.

In Australia, feral animals typically have few natural predators or fatal diseases and some have high reproductive rates. As a result, their populations have not naturally diminished and they can multiply rapidly if conditions are favourable.

Feral animals impact on native species by predation, competition for food and shelter, destroying habitat, and by spreading diseases.

The Rabbit-eared Bandicoot or Bilby needs a constant supply of carbohydrate-rich seeds and roots. Feral animals such as rabbits graze or degrade vegetation that provides food and shelter for them and other native animals. If vegetation is destroyed or eaten by feral animals, the Bilby and other native species are placed under greater pressure. Feral cats and foxes hunt and kill native birds, mammals, reptiles and insects. It is known that this behaviour threatens the survival of many threatened species.

Feral animals can cause soil erosion. While managed domestic livestock can be removed from degraded areas until these areas are revegetated, it is much more difficult to keep feral animals out of these same areas.

Feral animals can carry the same common diseases as domestic animals. They are a constant source of reinfection for wildlife and livestock, which works against efforts to control costly diseases such as tuberculosis. Feral animals are also potential carriers of other animal diseases (such as rabies and foot and mouth disease) and parasites (such as the screw worm fly). So far, these do not occur in Australia. An outbreak among Australia's wildlife would have an immediate and widespread effect, and would be disastrous for our environment. In some cases it would also be very difficult to control these diseases and parasites if feral animals carried them.

 

[CJReptiles]

They make a 15' burm look like, well. A cute little fuzzy kitten.

 

[TropicalSerpent]

So I wasn't Sure if anyone did or not But I notified Mr. Zarmati on myspace.com with the following message


I wanted to Inform you If you havent been informed their is a posting on www.faunaclassifieds.com
http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.
php?t=169637 I will leave my comment on this matter on fauna.
Thanks Travis-TropicalSerpent

So the Notification has been sent if he gets on frequent he will see it,

My comment on this Is that this is that their is a more Humane way to do this several in fact. Also this should not have been distibuted any anyway I am assuming it was on the net. I will leave this at that, Thanks Jeremy Travis

 

[rodneynboalich]

i understand that the burms are a problem in FL and something needs to be done but these people posting pics of them cutting off their heads you know as soon as the HSUS sees these pics they are going to throw a fit and say look how these people that claim to love snakes treat them. why would you cut its head for so far back. they could have put them in the freezer and they would have just slowed down and went to sleep or used co2. i realize that what they did was the fastest way to do it but why the hell would they post pics of it. something like this could really cause fighting in the reptile community and we really dont need that right now.

 

[gsrept]

just point of interest,freezing a live snake is not a humane way to euthanize when you freeze an animal it creates ice crystals in the blood and causes them more pain, but inturn i do not agree with the way that burm was killed either such a nice snake should not have been killed there have to be other options.