Warning Points System Mod

[DThomas]

Bah....

Rich already has all of the information he needs to be exclusive. Nothing like rewarding those who have already proven themselves incompetent.

In your opinion he does and I am sure in others' they would disagree. Now you see the damned if he does damned if he doesn't position he is always in.

 

[Chameleon Company]

So what you are saying is that you are not giving those members a chance to prove themselves with this same test of time? Why not?

Sorry if that impression was given, as it was not what I intended. The standard chosen was one of $ spent on membership, and/or equivelent appointment level using other criteria. I agree that appointment as a forum mod did require an evaluation by you that is not altogether foreign to how you would entrust ding enforcement criteria. If anything, my complaint regarding criteria is that it omitted all existing peer-review input, much of which has withstood the test-of-time. I was also enhancing your evaluation that you and the super-mods existed solely by appointment to a position of power. I meant to indicate that you also had attained a position of respect, gained over time. The peer review has been there for you and them, to include the likelihood that if any of your super-mods had shown themselves to be detrimantal to the site, you would have let them ease-on-out some time ago.

I am not for denying anyone a chance to prove themselves. At the same time, if they have not earned my prior respect, they aren't endowed with such because they spent $100. That does not mean that I intend to disrespect them. As I mentioned in past posts, as this thing gets tested, if you need to modify it, I would suggest that you reach to the existing Karma system, such that maybe you choose those with the top 20-30-40 etc totals as being a good place to recruit dingers, if not make it available as a privilege to all there. I am not lobbying for the job, and you may omit me. It has its flaws, but more than any other existing criteria within the site, it indicates a commitment to the site, experience, and peer approval. It gives further value to the concept of earning peer approval here, which is achieved more quickly by being civil vs, uncivil, IMMHO.

My best guess is that this current system will prove adequate as is, but just not the best foundation to build this on.

However:

All persons capable of being in a moderator capacity are "on duty" at all times when they are logged in here. That has to be how they are treated, which realistically, if you treat them belligerently, then that is still a violation of the rules. The difference of a single point in the warning total is not all that substantial of a complaint issue.

It is not just one point that is at issue here. It is whether the standard is antagonism vs. being overly abusive. I know that it will end up being a judgement call.

 

[Griz]

In your opinion he does and I am sure in others' they would disagree. Now you see the damned if he does damned if he doesn't position he is always in.

I agree. Rich's job is a thankless one. There is no argeuing that. But, it's also a job that he chooses to do every day. And as such, comes a certain amount of responsibility which includes making intelligent choices that are not detrimental to the site. The main problem here is that a lot of us want to believe he still cares about the site because we still do. Although that list is starting to become smaller everyday. If the owner does not care then why should we? Maybe that's the overall problem.

Griz

 

[Sledgehammer]

$
Heck Rich, I would rather donate $100 and have people like Mike Greathouse, Shrap etc, people who have EARNED not PAID for the right help bring about civility. They, in the eyes of most here, have EARNED this right through their level headedness, their integrity, their sincere desire to be correctly dogmatic. Pretty pathetic when someone can PAY for a right that they never EARNED, isn't it?

Griz

I agree. That would be a much better plan.

The funny thing is, neither of these respected individuals has opted to post in this thread.

As vocal as Mike Greathouse was in WWW2, I would have thought that we would see him in this thread.

He wasn't banned or anything for speaking his mind, was he Webslave?

 

[WebSlave]

I agree. Rich's job is a thankless one. There is no argeuing that. But, it's also a job that he chooses to do every day. And as such, comes a certain amount of responsibility which includes making intelligent choices that are not detrimental to the site. The main problem here is that a lot of us want to believe he still cares about the site because we still do. Although that list is starting to become smaller everyday. If the owner does not care then why should we? Maybe that's the overall problem.

Griz

So now I am being blasted because after years of taking abuse on the chin from LOTS of people on this site, I am finally getting tired of it. Yeah, I'll bet this is easy to do and all of you could do it handily.

Sorry, but no, I am not a saint, and I am not superman. I don't know how anyone got that impression. This site would be better and the job much easier if everyone here would just act like responsible, rational, mature, and professional human beings. As the past proof has shown, that just is not possible for everyone here. Most have agendas that are ad odds to the goals of this site, and it is pretty obvious that their only reason for being here is to cause as much conflict as possible. And THAT is MY fault? My fault that I am just tired of it and offloading some of the workload? And you are complaining because I am not making the effort to try to get SAINTS put into those positions?

Sorry, but nothing this site has to offer me is worth the aggravation of doing it with the full load on my shoulders. And I WILL not ask the few site mods to shoulder that burden alone either. I threw in the towel rather recently, but felt THIS concession to the expressed desire to modify some of the more negative aspects here would help in that regards. If you all MAKE it fail, basically a self fulfilling prophecy, then it will be back to where it was, with basically no one at the helm.

And no, I really don't care which way it goes. I hope this will work, but I'm not holding my breath that some members here won't make a mountain out of a molehill about it in order to force it to fail. That would not surprise me in the least. Matter of fact, it would be par for the course we have here.

So if I am going to get bashed for doing something or not doing something, it doesn't make any sense for me to continue trying to do something. Is that a difficult concept to grasp?

 

[WebSlave]

I agree. That would be a much better plan.

The funny thing is, neither of these respected individuals has opted to post in this thread.

As vocal as Mike Greathouse was in WWW2, I would have thought that we would see him in this thread.

He wasn't banned or anything for speaking his mind, was he Webslave?

I'm sure you know how to check on things like that or contact Mike directly.

 

[Laura Fopiano]

I agree. Rich's job is a thankless one. There is no argeuing that. But, it's also a job that he chooses to do every day. And as such, comes a certain amount of responsibility which includes making intelligent choices that are not detrimental to the site. The main problem here is that a lot of us want to believe he still cares about the site because we still do. Although that list is starting to become smaller everyday. If the owner does not care then why should we? Maybe that's the overall problem.

Griz

Bob, we all help perpetuate the problem by asking Rich to continue running this sight.

I'm sure that if he chooses to do so, Rich could just pull the plug here and we would all be talking on other sights about the greatest place the web had to offer.

I prefer a little cool down time to take stick in what is really important here. Our love for our hobby/business and or pleasure.

With the exception of those scammed on the BOI, none of us are victims here, just willing participants.

 

[Chameleon Company]

If you all MAKE it fail, basically a self fulfilling prophecy, then it will be back to where it was, with basically no one at the helm.

We don't want it to fail ..... at least most of us anyway. We just all have varying opinions about how to best make it succeed. That is to be expected, but there does seem to be areas of consensus among those that have cared to post here that the current plan is more flawed at the outset than need be. We hope that it does not contribute to an avoidable demise.

Referring back to history, but this nation's first attempt to create a mechanism by which to unite and solve problems to serve the common good, the Articles of Confederation, was a failure. Thank God they didn't give up trying, kept the same goal, and improved upon the means to achieve it. With much debate.

In the meantime, I am also content enough with the current document to see how things play out.

 

[Griz]

So now I am being blasted because after years of taking abuse on the chin from LOTS of people on this site, I am finally getting tired of it. Yeah, I'll bet this is easy to do and all of you could do it handily.

Nope, but I would know when to quit. Rich, do you honestly believe that I, or Jim, or Wes, or Mike G, or??? would have even taken the time to throw out suggestions, to analyze current proposals if we did not care? That, at the very least, should show you who truly cares about this site and who does not.

You and I have exchanged our share of PM's and you know I have a lot of respect for what you do and for what you have gone through. I also fully know that the benefits of running this site are probably dwarfed by the headaches received. But, if you don't want to hear the opinions of others then maybe it's you that needs to take a break. When people have something they care about they don't throw the towel in. But they WILL speak up loudly when mistakes are being made.

The walls won't cave in. The ceiling is not tumbling down. And Fauna will live to see another day. But, I had never, prior to yesterday, had to wonder what the motives were of those in power. I now have about 43 people in which to be curious about. Only time will tell.

Griz

 

[Scott Ashton]

The walls won't cave in. The ceiling is not tumbling down. And Fauna will live to see another day. But, I had never, prior to yesterday, had to wonder what the motives were of those in power. I now have about 43 people in which to be curious about. Only time will tell.
Griz

I think that number is down to 42.

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

Oh really? Then why are YOU here?

Well, I've been a participating member since w-a-y back when this was just the Board of Inquiry... the "Good Guy - Bad Guy" forum. I became a member because I felt that you provided a very useful tool to the reptile community for establishing who deserved to have my business, and who didn't. At that time, you had a very strong, almost altruistic, commitment to upholding each member's Constitutional Right to Free Speech, and were a true advocate of that right.

I continued to support this site in what I felt were my contributions to the reptile community, most specifically the Leopard Gecko community, and to glean valuable information from the contributions of the other members. I made financial contributions as well... by my sponsorship of the Leopard Gecko Forum, and as a paid "$100 Member". The BOI helped me tremendously... first when a cricket supplier's feeders poisoned my geckos and then tried to sue me over posting that inquiry; and second, when a scammer ripped me off. The BOI helped me recover that money, and I donated it to Fauna since without the collective efforts of the members I would not have recovered it.

I have had the privilege of making some of the BEST friends I could ever hope for right here on Fauna. As a disabled person who stays home to run my business, Fauna was pretty much my only source of community and socialization.... almost an extended family. I came to Fauna because I could 'hang out' with people who had common interests and ethics.

You ask why I am here. Right now, I really don't have the answer for you, Rich. Perhaps it's out of habit. Perhaps nostalgia. I can guarantee though, that is isn't because I get a charge out of seeing people hang themselves.

 

[WebSlave]

Nope, but I would know when to quit. Rich, do you honestly believe that I, or Jim, or Wes, or Mike G, or??? would have even taken the time to throw out suggestions, to analyze current proposals if we did not care? That, at the very least, should show you who truly cares about this site and who does not.

You and I have exchanged our share of PM's and you know I have a lot of respect for what you do and for what you have gone through. I also fully know that the benefits of running this site are probably dwarfed by the headaches received. But, if you don't want to hear the opinions of others then maybe it's you that needs to take a break. When people have something they care about they don't throw the towel in. But they WILL speak up loudly when mistakes are being made.

The walls won't cave in. The ceiling is not tumbling down. And Fauna will live to see another day. But, I had never, prior to yesterday, had to wonder what the motives were of those in power. I now have about 43 people in which to be curious about. Only time will tell.

Griz

So tell me, what exactly do you think you would see posted here from certain factions if I just ignored all the questions and comments, hmmm? Go ahead, take a wild guess at it.......

 

[WebSlave]

I think that number is down to 42.

Yes, that is correct. One of the forum mods got himself on the wrong end of a BOI thread............

 

[Griz]

So tell me, what exactly do you think you would see posted here from certain factions if I just ignored all the questions and comments, hmmm? Go ahead, take a wild guess at it.......

Rich, I reckon not even you can answer that since you've never given it a try. There's a reason why most of the forum owners lay low. You've chosen to take an active part in this community, which I can understand why, but you did so knowing there was a downside.

Griz

 

[Scott Ashton]

Yes, that is correct. One of the forum mods got himself on the wrong end of a BOI thread............

Oh, I wasn't counting him.

41

 

[WebSlave]

Well, I've been a participating member since w-a-y back when this was just the Board of Inquiry... the "Good Guy - Bad Guy" forum. I became a member because I felt that you provided a very useful tool to the reptile community for establishing who deserved to have my business, and who didn't. At that time, you had a very strong, almost altruistic, commitment to upholding each member's Constitutional Right to Free Speech, and were a true advocate of that right.

I continued to support this site in what I felt were my contributions to the reptile community, most specifically the Leopard Gecko community, and to glean valuable information from the contributions of the other members. I made financial contributions as well... by my sponsorship of the Leopard Gecko Forum, and as a paid "$100 Member". The BOI helped me tremendously... first when a cricket supplier's feeders poisoned my geckos and then tried to sue me over posting that inquiry; and second, when a scammer ripped me off. The BOI helped me recover that money, and I donated it to Fauna since without the collective efforts of the members I would not have recovered it.

I have had the privilege of making some of the BEST friends I could ever hope for right here on Fauna. As a disabled person who stays home to run my business, Fauna was pretty much my only source of community and socialization.... almost an extended family. I came to Fauna because I could 'hang out' with people who had common interests and ethics.

You ask why I am here. Right now, I really don't have the answer for you, Rich. Perhaps it's out of habit. Perhaps nostalgia. I can guarantee though, that is isn't because I get a charge out of seeing people hang themselves.

Then if I may be so bold to ask, why then to you almost invariably encourage those members taking potshots at me by giving them postive karma for those pot shots? I do monitor such things you know... One of your latest comments giving positive karma to a member is:

[Fauna IS a circus!!! LOL!]

Obviously Marcia, you are making your own little contributions to the drama here...... Aren't you handing out your own little piece of rope with such actions? Egging people on to publicly wrap that rope around their necks with the little karma incentives you give?

And yes, I do recall making a special effort to try to keep you from being sued in that cricket problem years ago. Acted as a intermediary to try to smooth things over. Yes, things WERE quite different back then. I thought all the good guys were on my side and fully supportive of what the BOI was intended to do. Now, the distinction between "good guy" and "bad guy" has become rather indistinct to me.... Guess I have seen far too many instances of self interest flipping one from one side to the other as circumstances dictate. Perhaps I have just lost that naivete I used to have back then and become more practical and realistic about some things.

 

[WebSlave]

Rich, I reckon not even you can answer that since you've never given it a try. There's a reason why most of the forum owners lay low. You've chosen to take an active part in this community, which I can understand why, but you did so knowing there was a downside.

Griz

Obviously there are down sides to everything. I think that much as pretty much been proven beyond a shadow of a doubt. The choice was to be active within this site and try to encourage discourse in it's developement. Or be viewed as the aloof uncaring ivory tower land lord. I doubt either one would have been "best".

 

[Wilomn]

You know Rich, you end almost every post you make by saying no matter what you do someone would have been dissatisfied.

You state in many of those posts that you are no longer concerned with what the members think.

I'm kind of confused. IF you don't care, then why do you care?

It's a serious question.

 

[WebSlave]

You know Rich, you end almost every post you make by saying no matter what you do someone would have been dissatisfied.

You state in many of those posts that you are no longer concerned with what the members think.

I'm kind of confused. IF you don't care, then why do you care?

It's a serious question.

I guess it is just a personality flaw, Wes. I think we all have them....

I just feel compelled to answer questions, I guess, and try to correct errors or misconceptions about things..... Otherwise, surely some people would think that a misstatement made by someone else would HAVE to be the truth and accurate because it was NOT corrected....

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

Then if I may be so bold to ask, why then to you almost invariably encourage those members taking potshots at me by giving them postive karma for those pot shots? I do monitor such things you know... One of your latest comments giving positive karma to a member is:

Fauna IS a circus!!! LOL!

Obviously Marcia, you are making your own little contributions to the drama here...... Aren't you handing out your own little piece of rope with such actions? Egging people on to publicly wrap that rope around their necks with the little karma incentives you give?

Rich, sometimes Fauna IS like a circus. I gave a member positive karma for saying it because I got a chuckle out of the comment. I did not post it publicly on any of the forum threads because I still have some respect for Fauna members. How is that adding to the drama? How would it be my fault if someone chooses to hang themselves?