Warning Points System Mod

[KelliH]

Well, now here we go- AGAIN- I am (in a roundabout way) being blamed for the downfall of Fauna. The ironic thing about that is that I'm not here fighting you, Rich. I'm not here causing problems and bitching about the way you run the website. See that coin over there to the left? Yeah, I paid money to support this place, and you. Why, after all the horrible events of summer 2005 and summer 2006 would I do such a thing, you may be wondering? Because I cared about you, Rich, and I cared about Fauna and wanted to make things better somehow. Obviously I have failed miserably.

I thought we had all of that worked out, Rich. I thought that we had agreed to let bygones be bygones. Apparantly I was alone in that thought wasn't I. You are unable to forgive me, and I am really sorry for that. I have tried explaining over and over and over again why some of the things that happened, happened. I have practically begged you to forgive me. I have tried the best way I know how to make it better, and I have just now realized that it never will.

I'll always be "the bad guy" in your eyes and one or two others here on Fauna because of the chain of events that followed the most horrific nightmare of a time I will ever experience in my life. You, and anyone else that cannot at least try to have some empathy for what I went through and try to understand why I may have not had the best judgement at that time, you and they have no heart and you and they have no soul.

Just to make it clear (I'm almost done), Rich, I am sorry that I was confused about your motives during my time of sorrow and anguish following my son's death. I was wrong. I am sorry that I became frustrated being here and being a mod here, and that I took some of your statements personally when perhaps I shouldn't have. That was wrong. I am sorry that I decided to create my own website for my fellow gecko keepers and breeders to have a place to call "home". I am sorry I did not inform you that I was going to do just that, it was wrong and I should have told you about it. That was wrong. I am especially sorry about allowing the thread in which Fauna and you and some of the members were made fun of to remain on the test site.

Since you have made it quite clear that those events were what have caused you to not care anymore about Fauna or it's membership, I will do the proper thing now and cease posting. I hope that no longer seeing my posts here will in some way help you start to care about Fauna and the members again. I will miss posting but I will get over it I am sure. I hold no hard feelings towards you, and I respect your feelings about everything that has happened.

And to Bruce: I was and still am utterly amazed that you dislike me so much simply because I disagreed with you about the situation where the geckos that GKO shipped to you died. It's just so stupid, really.

 

[shrap]

Dont buy that crap Kelli.

No one can make a person feel anything they dont want to feel in the first place. I am the only one capable of making me feel happy, sad, mad, resentment, etc, etc, etc.

Sure, people can cause an immediate knee jerk reaction and emotion, but no one can make it last long term but myself. That is a fact of life for everyone. So no, you are not to blame for how Rich feels, Rich is to blame for how Rich feels. For Rich is truly the only one capable of controlling how Rich feels.

 

[Lucille]

LOL The TRUE turning point in my attitude was after reading a supposedly hidden thread on another site where members here (even some forum mods) trounced me and others rather viciously.

None one of these people had ANY problem holding other people accountable for THEIR actions while at the very same time using different reasons to excuse their own.

You can't murder someone and then say 'oops, I'm sorry'. The depth of hate and viciousness on that thread being paraded joyously with expressions of laughter an encouragement will never be forgotten. That some were supposedly good guys, some even supposedly religious (not) made the transgression all the more horrifying.

Many of us learned more about human nature than we really wanted to see as Rich and Fauna got bloodied and lacerated page after page after page, while those perpetrating the horror giggled and laughed.

 

[shrap]

Well, surprise surprise. I am sure no one seen that shallow and transparent post coming....

Keep spewing your vile hatred and inability to show compassion or forgiveness. It just further goes to show what kind of people you truly are. I truly feel pity for those of you who live such an ugly existence.

 

[kmurphy]

Rich, it is unfortunate that you decided to dredge up that issue again. It is probably the most divisive thing I've seen you do and I suspect you should have waited a while before hitting the submit button. It is obvious that you care about this site or you wouldn't be so "hands on".

 

[varnyard]

In response to this question:

Yea, I think it is real clear, not the first time, a, Kelli?

PM from Kelly:

KelliH
geckophile
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Pepperland
Age: 35
Posts: 3,204
Name : Kelli Hammack

Trader Rating: (51)


Warning Level: 0 I'm still waiting

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for an answer to my question. I have no idea what the hell you were insinuating but it would be the honest thing to do to let me know.

It seems as if it is perfectly A-Ok in your mind to ask questions and debate topics and demand questions of others yet when another does the exact same thing you get pissy.

So Bobby, wtf is your beef with me???

Thanks,
Kelli

My answer:

There are many of questions on that thread that needs answers. to turn a blind eye as you done on there shows what?

As for your answer, do you remember when you first started your site?
need I say more? That too was some great morals.

There was a time I thought much more of a few here, but I now came to realize they are the people I thought they were.

Was meant to say they are (not) the people I though they were.

Her response:

04-07-2007, 12:25 PM
KelliH
geckophile
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Pepperland
Age: 35
Posts: 3,204
Name : Kelli Hammack

Trader Rating: (51)


Warning Level: 0 Re: I'm still waiting

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It's exactly as I suspected: It's perfectly A-Ok for Bobby Hill to make his opinions known and ask questions of others in a debate but when someone else believes differently and doesn't happen to agree with him, watch out! Don't you think that is a tad bit hypocritical of you, Bobby?

And I would like you to please explain how it is you think that I am turning a blind eye to the situation. I am participating in the discussion, just like you are! I just happen to have some differences in opinion with you, and then OF COURSE you bring up-

what happened nearly a year ago when GeckoForums.net was made public... Bobby, that has absolutely NOTHING to do with the current situation, dude. That is in the past and Rich and I have resolved our problems with each other.

I think the truth of the matter is that you are upset that you were Vickie's and (Kevin Dunn's probably) TOOL. And you have reason to be upset, but acting the way you have been is only making you look worse.

Later,
Kelli

Marcia McGuiness Left this statement along with bad karma for me on: 04-07-2007 04:13 PM. To say this is over would not be the truth. I might add, it was over a simple question:

Golden Gate Geckos: "Yea, I think it is real clear, not the first time, a, Kelli?" I think if Rich and Kelli have worked out their differences, you need to just get over it, too. What does this comment have to do with the topic of the tread, anyway?

The question was:

Yea, I think it is real clear, not the first time, a, Kelli?

IMO, this is not the first time Kelli turned a blind eye. Also, I do not hold Kelli totally to blame for what happen on her site, but she did allow it to happen. Marcia, had quiet a bit to say and my name was even drug through the dirt there. But in her own words in her negative karma comment: (You need to just get over it).

Marcia, I hate to bust your bubble, but that’s not the way it works. IMO it starts with an apology, not just to Rich, but also to everyone slammed on that site by you and the others.

So Kelli made her apology to Rich, Was she the only one there? Is she the only one that made comments about Rich and the rest of us? Not even close!!


That said this has been far from over Kelli, but you can continue to turn the blind eye.

 

[Griz]

I'll try to make this brief as I am attempting to type this inbetween feeding oatmeal to my kids and trying to get out the door. We'll see what a multi-tasker I am.

Rich, your post comes as no surprise to me. I realize that you placed your heart (Fauna) out there and the whole "other website" debacle trounced on it. But, get over it. I mean that sincerely. People are only human and sometimes we can turn real ugly, even the best of us. But, it's what we do after the hurts been done that shows us what character really is. I've seen Kelli come back on here and sincerely attempt to reconcile and to start educating others about her love of gecko's. THAT'S what Fauna is about. Sure, what Kelli site did hurt but, in my opinion, that one thread will NOT determine what I feel Kelli is about. She may be hard headed and stubborn at time but she has also shown a very gentle, caring and sharing quality about her that has only attempted to help this site out.

Rich, if you think that you are going to get by in this world without experiencing disappointment from those that you cared for then I am glad I don't live in that world. If Fauna has lost it's worth to you then end it. I won't remember Rich as being the Cornsnake King of the Nation. I will remember you as the originator of the best damn reptile site that was ever built. Each thing we do in life creates our legacy Rich. THIS site is part of your legacy and to be blunt, I would rather see Fauna simply close it's doors then to see a part of your legacy fall to the wayside.

Rich, you talk a tough game but in my line of work I have to read people and to blunt, your not as tough as you would like this board to think. You care too much about this site and I know it tears you up to see what has transpired. But, only you can make it right. I am glad to help as I know others are as well. But, you have to start counting on those individuals who have earned the right to help not simply paid for it. If I knew you were sincerely going to start caring again and start taking control over the site then I would happily pay to help support your efforts. It's never been a money thing to me Rich, it's a quality thing and right now the quality is no longer there. And that pains quite a few of us more then you will know.

Griz

 

[varnyard]

I'll try to make this brief as I am attempting to type this inbetween feeding oatmeal to my kids and trying to get out the door. We'll see what a multi-tasker I am.

Rich, your post comes as no surprise to me. I realize that you placed your heart (Fauna) out there and the whole "other website" debacle trounced on it. But, get over it. I mean that sincerely. People are only human and sometimes we can turn real ugly, even the best of us. But, it's what we do after the hurts been done that shows us what character really is. I've seen Kelli come back on here and sincerely attempt to reconcile and to start educating others about her love of gecko's. THAT'S what Fauna is about. Sure, what Kelli site did hurt but, in my opinion, that one thread will NOT determine what I feel Kelli is about. She may be hard headed and stubborn at time but she has also shown a very gentle, caring and sharing quality about her that has only attempted to help this site out.

Rich, if you think that you are going to get by in this world without experiencing disappointment from those that you cared for then I am glad I don't live in that world. If Fauna has lost it's worth to you then end it. I won't remember Rich as being the Cornsnake King of the Nation. I will remember you as the originator of the best damn reptile site that was ever built. Each thing we do in life creates our legacy Rich. THIS site is part of your legacy and to be blunt, I would rather see Fauna simply close it's doors then to see a part of your legacy fall to the wayside.

Rich, you talk a tough game but in my line of work I have to read people and to blunt, your not as tough as you would like this board to think. You care too much about this site and I know it tears you up to see what has transpired. But, only you can make it right. I am glad to help as I know others are as well. But, you have to start counting on those individuals who have earned the right to help not simply paid for it. If I knew you were sincerely going to start caring again and start taking control over the site then I would happily pay to help support your efforts. It's never been a money thing to me Rich, it's a quality thing and right now the quality is no longer there. And that pains quite a few of us more then you will know.

Griz

Thats a dang good post Bob!!

 

[Griz]

Marcia, I hate to bust your bubble, but that’s not the way it works. IMO it starts with an apology, not just to Rich, but also to everyone slammed on that site by you and the others.

So Kelli made her apology to Rich, Was she the only one there? Is she the only one that made comments about Rich and the rest of us? Not even close!!


That said this has been far from over Kelli, but you can continue to turn the blind eye.

Bobby, God love ya, but I disagree here. There comes a time when you have to try and see through any past garbage and realize that even without a formal apology, that most of the participants on that thread are sorry. Kelli has more then demonstrated that fact. I was part of that thread and the only apology that needed to be made was done.....privately.

If people cannot bury the hatchet and move on then you have to ask what purpose they serve. Apologies don't make the boo boo's better but they do help open the door to healing. That door was not something any of us needed to be privy too, either then or now. It's time to move on. It's time to come together and realize that people make mistakes. It's time to let that incident fad away. If for no other reason then build this site back up.

Griz

 

[varnyard]

Bobby, God love ya, but I disagree here. There comes a time when you have to try and see through any past garbage and realize that even without a formal apology, that most of the participants on that thread are sorry. Kelli has more then demonstrated that fact. I was part of that thread and the only apology that needed to be made was done.....privately.

If people cannot bury the hatchet and move on then you have to ask what purpose they serve. Apologies don't make the boo boo's better but they do help open the door to healing. That door was not something any of us needed to be privy too, either then or now. It's time to move on. It's time to come together and realize that people make mistakes. It's time to let that incident fad away. If for no other reason then build this site back up.

Griz

You know I respect you Bob, I will Learn from yesterday, live for today, hope for tomorrow, but I will not forget. It would have been much different if there would have been a reason behind the attacks back then, but the fact of the matter is, there were none. These were fellow moderators whom I trusted and called friends. So, I will Learn from yesterday, but I will not forget.

 

[Sledgehammer]

Since you have made it quite clear that those events were what have caused you to not care anymore about Fauna or it's membership, I will do the proper thing now and cease posting.

And yet another respected member gone.
I expect Griz will not be too far behind.

Rich,
Do you see a pattern here?
About the time that your "Pay to Moderate" program started, there was a thread entitled "The People's Choice". In this thread, the membership at large made their recommendations based on who they felt were the most respected and qualified members to help moderate this site.

Those lists now seem to mirror a list of the individuals who have chosen to no longer post here.

What does this tell you about your forum?

 

[Griz]

You know I respect you Bob, I will Learn from yesterday, live for today, hope for tomorrow, but I will not forget. It would have been much different if there would have been a reason behind the attacks back then, but the fact of the matter is, there were none. These were fellow moderators whom I trusted and called friends. So, I will Learn from yesterday, but I will not forget.

Bobby, I'm not asking you to forget. I am asking you to move on. Leave what's in the past there......in the past. Don't let it affect your motivations today. You will be much better off to push it to the side and not continue to hold people accountable for a situation that we all know has a whole lot of regret built into it. You'll be a better man for it. When you boil that old thread down to the very meat of the subject, it was not about you or I. It was about insecurities and old wounds. The vast majority of what was said there had very little to do with reality. Walk away my friend, walk away.

Griz

 

[Dragondad]

None one of these people had ANY problem holding other people accountable for THEIR actions while at the very same time using different reasons to excuse their own.

You can't murder someone and then say 'oops, I'm sorry'. The depth of hate and viciousness on that thread being paraded joyously with expressions of laughter an encouragement will never be forgotten. That some were supposedly good guys, some even supposedly religious (not) made the transgression all the more horrifying.

Many of us learned more about human nature than we really wanted to see as Rich and Fauna got bloodied and lacerated page after page after page, while those perpetrating the horror giggled and laughed.

Lets face it expressing your feelings about someone you dont like is not even a comparison to murder. At least some people can say they are sorry, or admit they are wrong! Something that has never come from your mouth or keyboard when you proceed with your agenda. You need to get over the fact that people dont like you, and you need to accept that those people have a right to express their opinion of you or in general. You may not like it, and it may hurt for a while but what have they done different from any posts that are hidden from public view you have made, or PM's or letters that you author.

I for one think a loss of KelliH or a Marcia is worth 10 of some others including you Lucille. And I am sure there are those that feel me, and 10 like me are never going to equal those two. Frankly Kelli I would continue on here with your wisdom and your input. It is a public site and the last I looked you were still in the public domain!

 

[Lucille]

people have a right to express their opinion

As do I

 

[Griz]

As do I

But at what cost Lucille? I've never had any issues with you and consider you a friend based upon our dialogue. But, there's no need to throw wood on what was a long extinguished fire. Some thoughts are best left at that.....thoughts.

Griz

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

The TRUE turning point in my attitude was after reading a supposedly hidden thread on another site where members here (even some forum mods) trounced me and others rather viciously. When this issue came to light and the facts laid bare, even then an entire group of members here followed them off to another site, pretty much telling me bluntly that they AGREED with those slurs. Well that told me quite a bit about a significant chunk of members here.

Rich, we had a l-o-n-g talk on the phone not long ago, and you told me you wanted to put this behind you. If I remember that conversation correctly, I told you I had concerns about your ability to do that. I guess I was right.

Marcia, had quiet a bit to say and my name was even drug through the dirt there. But in her own words in her negative karma comment: (You need to just get over it).

I said NOTHING about you, Bobby. NOTHING. I did give you a negative karma point for bringing up past issues that had nothing to do with you. So yes, you DO need to get over it.

Marcia, I hate to bust your bubble, but that’s not the way it works. IMO it starts with an apology, not just to Rich, but also to everyone slammed on that site by you and the others.

Bobby, there is no bubble to burst. On Christmas Day, I posted yet a third public apology here:

http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showpost.php?p=465017&postcount=8

I will not apologize a fourth time. Again, you need to get over it.

You can't murder someone and then say 'oops, I'm sorry'. The depth of hate and viciousness on that thread being paraded joyously with expressions of laughter an encouragement will never be forgotten. That some were supposedly good guys, some even supposedly religious (not) made the transgression all the more horrifying.

Murder? Viciousness? LOL!!!! (You forgot to add the part where you called me a child molester).

 

[ravensgait]

Man Rich how does it feel to have so many words put into your mouth or in this case cyber space.

People say let by gone's be by gone's as they bring up another pain they just can't get over.

All of us that were here remember the mass (I want to be Banned from Fauna) herd jumping over the Banning cliff.. So no real need for it to be rehashed for the third forth or ? Time. There were far more folks than that raising hell with Rich and as this thread shows there are always new people to fill the shoes of those that have departed, that wanted it their way....

Just so I don't feel left out ---Rich you are bad bad bad, do as I want or else !!!!!!Randy

 

[jsrocket]

Well, for what it's worth, I like this site.

Over at KS, I read the classifieds, and that's it. Their discussion forums are virtually worthless. Here, people are allowed to post pretty much whatever is on their mind, the only catch is, they are then required to own it. Seems fair to me.

I have no problems with Rich's decision to take a more laissez faire attitude. This whole internet forum thing is still a work in progress, and probably will be for a long time.

He has shown more integrity, intelligence, and respect for free speech, than any other reptile site owner I can think of.

 

[dfherrera]

Well, for what it's worth, I like this site.

Over at KS, I read the classifieds, and that's it. Their discussion forums are virtually worthless. Here, people are allowed to post pretty much whatever is on their mind, the only catch is, they are then required to own it. Seems fair to me.

I have no problems with Rich's decision to take a more laissez faire attitude. This whole internet forum thing is still a work in progress, and probably will be for a long time.

He has shown more integrity, intelligence, and respect for free speech, than any other reptile site owner I can think of.

Well said.

 

[Ed Clark]

Great post Jim!

Well, for what it's worth, I like this site.

Over at KS, I read the classifieds, and that's it. Their discussion forums are virtually worthless. Here, people are allowed to post pretty much whatever is on their mind, the only catch is, they are then required to own it. Seems fair to me.

I have no problems with Rich's decision to take a more laissez faire attitude. This whole internet forum thing is still a work in progress, and probably will be for a long time.

He has shown more integrity, intelligence, and respect for free speech, than any other reptile site owner I can think of.