Watch-Out! LLL Reptiles selling USED items as NEW!

[vakejairam]

Hi,

Like many of you, I use the BOI as a resource. If I’m interested in purchasing an item (usually a snake), I simply perform a search, and proceed to read the commentary. I always factor in the chance of few reviews being more biased than others.

With that in mind, I’ve had great success with each transaction! Well this is one of first negative feedbacks, and it’s about LLL Reptiles. I will simply state the facts, and you can decide if it’s worth conducting business with them.

December 4, 2004 placed order for medium helix radiant panel. I received the panel on the evening of Dec. 12th. Upon inspection of the heat panel I noticed many scratches on the unit. I called LLL Reptiles to ask why the unit was so badly scratched up. With a “curt attitude” the sales person told me, “It’s new”.

The next morning I looked at the panel in daylight and noticed the scratches were deeper than I initially thought. They were more like gouges filled with dirt! The underside of the unit was filthy, and each corner was beat-up. I also noticed one corner had a little CRACK (this was clearly NOT due to shipping. The item was well packed).

I also noticed the underside of the unit was severely discolored. Below are a few pics of the unit. I feel it’s only fair to provide evidence of the condition of the unit.

I emailed LLL Reptiles, and “surprise surprise” they haven’t gotten back to me. Even if they did, this item should NOT have been sold as NEW.

It will be interesting to see if they get back to me or not...I'm betting "not".

Regards,

Vake Jairam

The whole underside looks like this...

Picture of cracked corner and discoloration of the corner

This isn't just dirt. These are scratches on each corner of the item. The whole back of the unit is scratched to hell.

Difficult to see, but the underneatch is stained yellow

 

[SPJ]

That is in worse shape than mine that are in use.
I hope they make good on this for you.
At the price you have to pay to buy a new Helix panel, I would also be seriously ticked off if I got sent one in that condition and paid for a new one.
There is no way that thing is new. With that discoloration, it is at least a year old if not more.

 

[SPJ]

I just noticed something. Where are the mounting brackets? That one has holes drilled into it and when I looked at mine, they don't have the holes. Looks like someone modified it instead of using the brackets.

 

[KNOBTAIL]

I am not surprised that you may have

encountered some difficulties with LLL. I dont know what to attribute it to. I have asked them to provide an email address on their site that would allow me to send an email with an attachment if necessary, and they do not offer that other than an automated email service on their site. You never know whether they in fact received the email or not. You would have to call.
I had a problem with them pertaining to some Storr Monitors that I had purchased a couple of years ago. I eventually had to notify my credit card company to withold payment . That was the only way I was able to get someone to accommodate my needs. Otherwise, I found their employees a bit hypersensitive to my complaint and not eager to resolve the matter. They basically took the chance in attempting to fight the chargeback rather than handle the problem. They also told me they "never loose". Well they did! and I got my money back, and have kept far away from LLL.

 

[MGReptiles]

I was wondering how they were selling them so cheaply.. I thought they must have bought a large lot buy...LOL..Nope just a few from the local trading papers.. I do hear bad thigns about there CS but have no first hand knowledge of it..Just the animals and crix.. Just demand a refund or a 30% refund if you want to keep the panel...
-Matt Graybeal

 

[SPJ]

This is from their website. They don't say anything about them being new (or used for that matter). They just say they have a limited supply. They may refuse to help since the wording never said they were new. Bad loophole but if they go that route, it will show what kind of a business they are and one to stay away from.


Medium Helix Radiant Heat Panel

Helix radiant heat panels are the best in the industry! Easy to install, easy to clean, and have a 3 year warranty!

Note: *While Supplies Last. We have a limited stock, once we are out, we are out!*

Order
Product Medium Helix Radiant Heat Panel
Quantity
Type $65.99 each †3 for $190.00 ($63.33 each) †
† This product or type is overweight for normal shipping calculations. You will be contacted with final shipping charges.

 

[vakejairam]

They don't say anything about them being new (or used for that matter).

True, but since they are from a retail store, one would expect a new item.

In addition, when I called them on Sat. the sale assistant was quite abrupt in conversation, and stated several times that their panels are new, and NEVER been used.

Vake Jairam

 

[Lucille]

On the phone, the sales person made an express warranty when she said it was new. Once made, those types of warranties are difficult to disclaim.

In addition, a business which deals primarily in new goods might have a duty to point out that it was selling used goods, I do not see that anywhere in their ad.

 

[The Reptile House]

The owner was at a show all weekend that we attended in Pomona and that is probibly why he has not been able to reply back to you. I am sure they will take care of it. I had a few incubater problems and they fixed it with really great service.
Shanell The Reptile House

 

[snakebiteAZ1]

Lll

I Go to all the Phoenix Reptile shows, and LLL are usually there.. The animals they have usually do not look the best, alot of W/C.. Also their customer service at the shows SUCKS!!! My wife asked the girl at the counter about a price of a UV bulb, she said hold on i'll find out, about 10-15 mins. later she returned and said i'm not sure but if you come back in a little while someone could help you.. Seemed like they really didn't care if they sold anything or not!! So with that in mind, i won't be purchasing any items from LLL.... Mike L. Everyone have a Happy Holiday and God Bless!!!!!

 

[nicolai]

Wow.. looks like they are going downhill..

I have bought a lot of stuff off them in the past without any problems whatsoever but by the looks of that heat panel (definetely used) and all the peoples comments here i think i will be a little more weary in the future as to whether or not i will buy from them again. I would definetely try to get a new heat panel as that one is used and its life expectency has been shortened. Looks like a case of a business that got to big for itself and now it doesnt worry about the little guys anymore, especially the customer service part of thier business.

Nick Bonn

" Breeding reptiles is my obsession not my hobby or my business, doing something for a hobby is what you do when you have the time and the mind to do it, as a business you do it primarily for the money and your livelihood, as an obsession you do it to see how well you can do it and to see what you can achieve and always strive to do better."

 

[LLLReptile]

Response regarding radiant heat panel

We rarely respond on this forum, however, in this case, a breif explanation is required. Vake had called friday to express concern that his radiant heat panel was used. As we explained to him then, and I will repeat now, all of the radiant heat panels we have sold over the last few months were unused. They came from Pro Exotics who had them in their retail store in Colorado for some time, but had never sold them. They discounted them to us to purchase all he had remaining, and we turned around and sold them on our website for well below the suggested retail price. With the exception of having dust (which we normally cleaned off, however completely forgot to in this case), and discoloration around the edges from the product just sitting on shelves for quite some time, the product is completely unused. The suggested retail price by Helix for this item is $96.00. Vake got this product for $65.99, and took our 10% holiday special as well, so $59 and change plus shipping. On friday when we spoke (the only time we have spoken), and he expressed concern (which I understand, the product was dusty, our mistake), he did not at that time ask for any discount, or to return the product, only to ask if it was used. I explained this to him then, and to this forum now. He is more than welcome to ship the product back to us if he is unhappy with it. We have not had that opportunity to offer any resolution to him yet, as this is the way he decided to handle this situation. It is absolutely no problem to take the item back, but since he seemed ok with the explanation on the phone, we left it at that. He then emailed on saturday, and called as well, to complain more and tell us he posted about us, and the manager over the weekend explained that we would contact him on monday and figure it out. Vake can contact Pro Exotics to verify this information. Since the products were unused, completely, and so much cheaper than buying directy from Helix, I am not sure what else to offer except his money back after the product is returned to us. This is the same explanation that he received on friday, he just failed to mention that on the first post.

Scott Wesley
Manager - LLLReptile & Supply

 

[herpcondo]

i read what LLL said,,,

I read what LLL said,, and the thing is,,,
No matter where the Heat panels came from in the past,, no matter what they sold for,, the customer deserves what he paid for,, and what he paid for was a "new" heat panel,,,, not one with drill holes in it,,( which they don't come with) as i have 2 of them,,, not being soiled,, and scratched,, and most of all not being discolored yellow,,, If they have been plugged in and run at all or used at all they are not "new"... i do realize the price he bought them for,, and that is a good price,, but it was not such a good price for a used and soiled heat panel,,, and that is what this guy got,,,, not a new heat panel,,, Another thing is if he called and asked for a resolution on Saturday,, why should he be put off until Monday for a resolution...? I mean you say he spoke to the "manager" i thought the buck always stops with the "manager"...
The last thing is very simple,, if Vake decided to come here,, and speak about his dealing with your company and is willing to provide facts and pictures to back up his claims,, Then he has every right to do so,,, for you to say "We have not had that opportunity to offer any resolution to him yet, as this is the way he decided to handle this situation" is way off base,, you did have a chance to rectify the situation by your own words on Saturday,, obviously you knew he called and emailed,, and you said he did yourself,, how much more does a person need to do to rectify a situation..?
All Vake wants is what every customer in the reptile world wants,, to be treated Like a customer you appreciate,, as he is spending his hard earned money with your company,,, ,, and get what they paid for (IE) "new heat panel" in a timely manner,,, ,,, nothing more and nothing less,, that is what we all want,,,
Just my 2 cents,,

 

[MGReptiles]

Gonna have to agree with Joe on that one.. I would never dream of boxing up an item for one of my customers that looked like that. Then get on the BOI and complain about the customer...sheesh... There are twom things I want when I buy something.. Top notch animal/product and someone on the phone or email that acts like they want me to have it and care if I am satisified with the transaction..
-Matt Graybeal

 

[SoCalHerp]

I've never had a good experience with LLL. I live close by, so I go in all the time, and have bought a few things in the past, but never will again. I looked at their booth on Saturday in Pomona, and asked them a few questions, but I never really got answers. Mostly the questions were about the origins of their animals, and most of the answers were, "we don't know." I think it'd be wise, LLL, for you to keep tabs on where your animals come from. Maybe feed your leopard geckos every now and then too!

 

[Beyond the Web]

I've had my fair share of bad dealings with LLL, twice with animals but I feel this adds to their negative customer service reputation.

The first order was a Ball Python which I received dead, the 2nd item(s) were a 10-Lot Rose hairs and Emperor Scorpions - half my batch arrived dead! And of course, they did not refund my money even though it was overnight arrival during the month of September (not too hot and not too cold). I no longer do business with them.

 

[repzoo44]

I have purchased a couple of animals from LLL at the Raleigh shows. Unfortunately none are still around. We had 2 leos that died a couple of months after we got them. I think we had a pac man frog from them as well that lived for about a year only because we force fed him. I dont even think about buying from them anymore and I steer people in a different direction when they ask about dealers. I do check out their tables to see what kind of animals dont look so healthy. Not to say that every animal looks sickly but all too often I see skinny leos and a few others that need more care.

EP Forehand

 

[nicolai]

I guess to each his own ...

Like I stated in my last post , I have pruchased several things from LLL in the past with no problem whatsoever. And in this case scott said he is more that willing to resolve this issue to the customers satisfaction. He also was big enough to admit it was thier fault it went out in that condition and we all know that we have dealers/breeders/wholesalers come on here and fight tooth and nail rather than admit any wrong doing in any transaction. In my opinion this was a bad post that is now a settled dispute as long as the customer gets his new one.since I have never had a problem with them I guess I will continue to buy from them. They do have good prices on a lot of thier stuff. Thier customer service isnt the greatest but if I can save some money it usually outweighs the service. So I will wait and see.

Nick Bonn

" Breeding reptiles is my obsession not my hobby or my business, doing something for a hobby is what you do when you have the time and the mind to do it, as a business you do it primarily for the money and your livelihood, as an obsession you do it to see how well you can do it and to see what you can achieve and always strive to do better."

 

[SPJ]

Thier customer service isnt the greatest but if I can save some money it usually outweighs the service.

One of these days that is going to back and bite you.
Saving a buck on something from a place with poor CS is not smart. If there is a problem, you will be out a lot more than the few pennies you originally saved. I would much rather pay a little more and buy from someone who is going to stand behind what they sell and I think a lot of other people share that point of view.
The point is, LLL never advertised these as used and damaged so Vake had no reason to believe he was getting anything but a new panel. When he complained about it, he was basically given a brush off.
His posting here has also painted a picture of just what it is like to do business with this company. The unhappy customers outweigh the happy ones which IMO means they will not get my money (no matter how cheap their prices are).

 

[nicolai]

thats why I said to each his own..

I have dealt with them multiple times in the past with no problems whatsoever. Should I now turn my back on them even though they always took care of me?? I just did a search on them and there are a lot of "good Guys" posts on them as well.

#1) LLLReptiles hits the mark with me.
Bought an established Biak Chondro in October from "Skittles" at thier Chicago show table. Good price, Nice guys, entusiastic sellers, Chondro started eating right away and hasnt missed since. Shed once and is a fiesty little Biak. How are your Chondros doing Skittles?
__________________
Joe Black

Balls, Red Tails, Carpets, GTPs, Milks, Corns, Kings

#2) These are three herp supply companies I've bought from on numerous occasions with no problems:
1. Midwest ( www.tongs.com )
2. LLL Reptile (www.lllreptile.com )
3. Big Apple Herpetological (www.bigappleherp.com)
All three are great supply companies with good prices.
Chris Raden
__________________
Chris Raden

#3) I'm going to limit my list to people that we bought from this year--othwerwise I'll be typing all day (LOL)--see, there are lots of good guys out there!

Shannon Brown--High Sierra Reptiles
Jerry Hartley--awesome rosy boas
HISS--Kelli again!
Scales--Daniel and Wendy Wedeking
Reptile Kingdom--Alan Both
Cheri Smith--thanks for all her hard work too
Dragons Den Herp--Kevin Dunne
Rob RK Reptiles
Envy Reptiles
Leonard Davidson
Cindy Senjanovich
Herb (oh, no, forget the last name--albino beauty snakes!)
reptilefood.com--William is the best!
LLL Reptile
Colorado Rocky Mountain Rodents-- coloradorodents.com
and our local guys at Subterranean Jungle of course
and glad to see Mickey Hinkle The Lizard King back!

I'm very sorry if I forgot anyone--I'm still on my first cup of coffee!

A good guy thread, YEY!!!!
(Does this count as a love bomb?)

no wonder we're always broke and busy--look at that list! LOL!
Dana
__________________
Dana or Loren Pennebaker
Sundial Reptile
www.sundialreptile.com

#4) It's been said many times but I will say it again....They are great. Top notch as far as I am concerned.

Chris Marston

#5) LLL

Bought an incubater at the S.D. show, got it home and it did not work properly called them and they had one out the next day. They apid for me to ship back on there account. The new one came and same problem so that one got sent back as well and we just switched to a different model. They were great at taking care of the problem. I have gotten crickets from them and they came top rate 100% live plus extra. I would recomend them over and over again there customer service is excelent!
The Reptile House

there were a lot more than this.So they do have a lot of faithful customers as well. If I had never purchased from them before I would be a little leary to do so due to all the posts here but since I have bought from them without problem I have no reason personally to turn my back on them.

Nick Bonn