What happened to BOI????

[Shadera]

I don't know about anyone else, but I am getting to DEEPLY resent this blatant intrusion by the government under the sheep's clothing of "to protect the people".

Boy, is this going off topic, or what?

Mmhmm. How 'bout that healthcare 'reform' they have on the table? People are calling and letting their state reps know they don't want this, and it's still being steamrolled through. What happened to Democracy?

Back on topic, I love the BOI. LOL

 

[Dennis Hultman]

I was merely making a point of whether it was fair or not. Dennis, you were dealt an injustice and NO, it wasn't fair. So why do you feel the need to visit that on someone else?

Because I don't see this as comparable.

Here you have the option of not participating at all. Your not a citizen of Fauna and have the option of not taking part in this community if you don't desire it. The weight of what is posted here only carries as far as those individuals that read it and how each individual interprets every individual post. If you are found in the wrong here by the majority of viewers your not legally guilty of anything by those individual views alone. It is only individual opinions that some may agree with or not.

Fair, maybe not to some but this isn't a governing body, it's a tool.

You could add that a lawyer is a tool. Everyone is entitled to one but not everyone receives a good one. Unfortunately, you get what you pay for most of the time.

In this hobby or business you also get what you pay for as well. You spend $20.00 on a WC animal with all the associated risks or you spend more on a CBB animal. Your choice.

You seek out and do business with those that have a great reputation or you look for the cheapest deal. Your choice.

You spend money on the BOI to aid you with your buying and selling or you don't. There is no obligation to anyone to dispute any information posted.
Your choice.

If you think any of the information posted within the BOI section warrants joining then do it or not. It's your choice.

Most threads deal with people in the industry. Like most industries you have a choice to join something to advance your business. Organizations, clubs, joining your chamber of commerce. Your not required to but it's an added tool.

This is just that, a tool ( a valued one) not a necessity to do business. Just look at the scammers that are out there. They still sell and get away with it over and over again because not everyone uses the BOI or they give a pass on the negatives they read about. Sucks for them but they had the option to view others experience and research before their purchase even if they didn't know this forum was here.

I'm not against giving free access to someone to defend themselves. I might think that it is a good thing. All I'm stating is Rich tried it before with the headaches involved and he has a right to do what he wills with what he owns. He might try it, then decide it's not the direction he wants to go. If he made that choice to make it accessible only to paid members, that is his right.

Would I want to defend myself on the BOI? Yes. Would I pay for that right, yes. Do you have to? No. Do you have other options? Yes.

Is it fair? Maybe one might think it is or isn't. I think a ethical question would be that do you have the right to do with what is yours as you see fit. My answer would be yes. This is a internet forum owned by someone.
This is his creation and if I wish to utilize it and if by doing so that would mean that I must become a member, I either would or wouldn't.

Bottom- line is that I beleive that if your in this business buying or selling in this community it is worth it to purchase a membership to the BOI, if it were required. To me it would be worth it to pay to join the BOI to defend my name in a transaction. It may not be worth it to others but as Rich stated
he isn't going to carry the burden any longer and if it is difficult to set it up for free memberships and go that route again, I would support the decision to require all to have memberships if it meant keeping the BOI available.

The alternative of not having it verses a one hundred percent paid participation, I would go with the paid memberships.

Just my opinion.

 

[KathyLove]

I agree with you, Dennis.

If it is a decision between "All paid" vs. "no BOI", then I vote for all paid. If Rich has no legal obligation (and it sounds like he does not) to allow free access to defendants, and it is too difficult to issue "day passes" to the accused, then I support Rich in keeping the BOI alive in whatever form it can survive in.

But if it is within the realm of what Rich is willing to do (once he retires, maybe?), then having some sort of temporary, free accounts with changing passwords (or whatever would accomplish it with the least effort) WOULD give the BOI more credibility, with the reputation of going the extra mile to be more than fair to those accused here. But I also understand if Rich is past the point of caring about that, too.

While I think the free passes for defense would be a good idea, I won't be doing the work. So I understand if this is just not worth doing for Rich. As I said, if it is a choice between "all pay or none play" then I go with the former.

 

[AF Exotics]

I would like to personally thank Rich for this site,and apologize for my own lack of support financially the past few years .This site is a valuable resource,THAT WHEN USED PROPERLY,is the best form of community self regulation .


I make no excuses,this site has benefitted myself,yet I have not been respectful of what it takes to keep it alive and running .It will never please everyone,but it will serve it's purpose,regardless of the stuff that gets thrown out during some of the discussions and disagreements that occur here .


I am sure there are some who would love to see it gone,but I believe there are more who recognize the need for it's presence,and who have done just as I have .It's like that one thing,you pay it no mind,no matter how much you use it,no matter how many times you see it laying around .Take a moment to look to for it,only to find it isn't there,and quickly realize how helpful it would be for that certain task .


It isn't perfect,but it is helpful .Enjoy your retirement,either way .I make no excuses,and kiss no butt .It is what it is,and this is just my humble opinion .Godspeed to everyone.Marcus Quesada .

 

[dragonlvr64]

Sometimes a dispute has gone on for over the 24-48 hour time frame. The pass idea would be hard to monitor and control and probably be a pain in the butt.

Unless the whole BOI thing just goes to a post your good/bad and that is it, no back and forth banter like it is now.

I still think the easiest thing for Rich is to have all pay and be done with it. Otherwise it seems any other option will require too much effort for one who is so worn down and tired of it all. I can't imagine the stress this puts on his family.

 

[NorthernRegius.com]

I'm sick to death of the "entitlement" thinking that keeps so many Social programs afloat... so I say to this just as I do as to other BS programs when people gripe about how a thing should be "free".
Bull-biscuits!!!
No such thing someone ALWAYS pays- so when folks look for a free-bie they miss the point... what they are ultimately asking is that SOMEONE ELSE pay their way. NO, say I. Put up or deal with the consequences of your choice.

 

[Lucille]

NO, say I. Put up or deal with the consequences of your choice.

It sounds like you are agreeing that Rich should have to put up $50,000. every time someone challenges in court his right to have the BOI.

And he is dealing with those consequences, he very well may shut the BOI down, because a few suits like that would be an extraordinarily heavy burden for almost anyone.

You are plainly saying that others should not pay, and that he should foot this enormous responsibility himself. You are entitled to your opinion.

 

[hhmoore]

I got a different impression from Deb's post, Lucille. You might want to take another look.

 

[Lucille]

I got a different impression from Deb's post, Lucille. You might want to take another look.

Harald, the idea of putting up money or suffering consequences Deb espoused remains the same no matter what set of circumstances are applied.

 

[Dennis Hultman]

Lucille, I think you read the post wrong. She was stating the opposite.

You are plainly saying that others should not pay, and that he should foot this enormous responsibility himself. You are entitled to your opinion.

 

[Lucille]

She is saying that she wants no freebies; that if there is something 'free' that in reality others pay for it.
She does not want others to pay.

 

[WebSlave]

She is saying that she wants no freebies; that if there is something 'free' that in reality others pay for it.
She does not want others to pay.

I didn't take it that way, Lucille. Not saying I interpretted what she said correctly, just that the way I read the words produced a different meaning to me. MY interpretation was that this was a blast to those people who expect things to be free for them, regardless of who else is actually paying for it.

 

[Lucille]

I didn't take it that way, Lucille. Not saying I interpretted what she said correctly, just that the way I read the words produced a different meaning to me. MY interpretation was that this was a blast to those people who expect things to be free for them, regardless of who else is actually paying for it.

Perhaps I woke up on the wrong side of the coffee today, when 3 people I respect say they interpreted something differently, I have to think they make have a point, maybe I didn't see the forest for the trees.

In any case, while I do not agree that anyone has an entitlement to have free time here, I still believe that it would be good if possible to give an accused a brief way to respond without having to buy in.

If the only choices were buy in or not buy in, I'd opt for the buy in.

Dennis, Harald and Deb, if I misinterpreted, I apologize.

 

[Refused Autopsy]

I admit that I am not internet savvy, this is my first computer (I worked alot for a long time..), but how would someone know they were listed as a "bad guy" unless they had access to the BOI? (if a "paid only" scenario did occur, which I support) A posted link in another forum, a friend, etc?

Why could they not simply email documents etc. to prove innocence directly to a "innocence project" type of email account to be reviewed by a (very patient and respected) moderator? If the moderator feels that they were wrongly accused they can post resolution...maybe even fine a "False Accusation Tax"...hehe!!

That way if for some reason they just won't pony up the money, there is another option? Would that not put the responsibility back on them instead of Admin?

Again, if ridiculous, I am sorry...in advance... I do not feel it is possible to please everyone all the time...nor is it your duty.

I just saw your other post, sorry to have continued the discussion. It is your decision to make and I am thankful you did this for as long as you have. I get it, now...and again, thanks for another year to do research, that was very generous.

 

[hhmoore]

The problem with that, Stacey, is that it would subject every person named in a bad guy thread to the mood of that moderator (if one were to be enough of a glutton for punishment to accept such a task). Try as we might to be fair, we sometimes have bad days...just like everybody else. Besides, how do you think we would feel after the day's 4th or 5th rambling, ticked off email from somebody that thinks they were wrongly accused of something. (you'd have to see some of the messages we get from people to really understand, lol)

 

[WebSlave]

Not to mention that it would also expose that moderator to significant legal liability since they would be acting as a judge in those matters. Basically significant evidence would then exist that the moderator who decided against the accused bad guy was responsible to the retention of that label by choosing the other party's evidence. I certainly would not allow myself to be placed in that position, nor will I place the moderators here in that sort of jeopardy.

 

[Refused Autopsy]

Points taken.....

There is a reason this is the only brutally honest forum left......all the . Again, sorry. for whining.

 

[hhmoore]

Hmmm - that serving as judge thing was on top of my list when I opted to reply...I wonder why it never made it into my post...

 

[NorthernRegius.com]

It sounds like you are agreeing that Rich should have to put up $50,000. every time someone challenges in court his right to have the BOI.

And he is dealing with those consequences, he very well may shut the BOI down, because a few suits like that would be an extraordinarily heavy burden for almost anyone.

You are plainly saying that others should not pay, and that he should foot this enormous responsibility himself. You are entitled to your opinion.

Lucille, I think you read the post wrong. She was stating the opposite.

Dennis got what I'm saying- people should pay into the BOI- no free-passes. The thing costs money to maintain & is a great service to the Herp community. It was beyond nice to allow anyone to use it...

Lucille as you so rightly state the burden Rich bears is BS. Sorry if you were confused by my post.

 

[NorthernRegius.com]

I didn't take it that way, Lucille. Not saying I interpretted what she said correctly, just that the way I read the words produced a different meaning to me. MY interpretation was that this was a blast to those people who expect things to be free for them, regardless of who else is actually paying for it.

Right again!!!