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What is the deal????

Gregg M

Gregg M

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What is up with dealers or breeders misrepresenting the animals they have up for sale???? I see it day after day and I am kind of fed up with it..... Here is an example..... I saw someone selling a tang carrot tail that was yellow and had a few specs of orange in the tail base..... Other examples would be super hypo tangs that are yellow or brown and spotted, hypos that look almost like reduced patterns or normals...... I have spent lots of cash on SHTs and SHTCTs and SHTCTBs...... It is almost like a smack in the face....... I feel for the breeders that sell TRUE SHTCTBs when someone is selling an immitation or misrepresented leo for 1/4 the price...... Lets say I have TRUE SHTCTBs for sale at 400 each and someone else has fake SHTCTBs at 100 each...... Someone will buy the cheaper one thinking they are gonna get the same quality and offsping potential..... Am I the only one that feels this way?????
 
Gregg, you are definately not alone. I think all responsible breeders feel the same way. However there is no way to regulate what "Joe Shmoe" calls their animals. I think that all we can do is represent our animals as honestly as we can. It would be nice to have a definition to go along with each animal as a standard, however the gecko market is ever changing and it would be hard to keep up. Also as I said before there is no way to regulate it.
 
I personally think the sellers of cheap geckos are just selling them selfs as low in breeders. Its easy to see a screamer SHTCTB is worth more that the crap brown orange I just saw for sell on KS.
 
There Is a way

If people start a Organization that states standards for breeding, selling and keeping herps.

Just like Dogs and Cats have their offical breeders in North America, can't remember the acryonym. However it would take a lot of effort on the behave of many volunteers to actually decide on standard traits for particular morphs.
I too am sick of this also sick of people who don't know enough about their animals and are keeping them wrong. I live in Canada and the reptile craze isn't as huge as it is in America however that means that the few of us that do are WAY in the stone age when it comes to husbanry... for example i have a friend who swears their beardies love hot rocks... theres no way for me to convincer her otherwise without being rude.

However if there was an offical, international site i think people would be better informed and more willing to change.

Just an Idea
 
I am brand new so I hope I am not sticking my foot in my mouth here (although it wouldn't be the first time).
I think there is nothing wrong with cheap geckoes. I just purchased my first pair, have not even received them yet but in the pics they were beautiful to me; they were not very expensive because I am not working right now and can't afford anything expensive; but already I am just thrilled that they are mine.
I have, though, seen pics of the more colorful ones and know that up the road a piece when I can afford them, I would like to have one or two.
I think that the people who are into serious gecko keeping and breeding place a high store on bloodlines and health and quality. And, if someone comes along to a lizard board and fancies himself or herself a breeder and gets a discount gecko that isn't all it should be, that is what they deserve.
If I were to want a serious gecko that cost serious money, I probably wouldn't even go to a classified section. I would probably pick people whose character and reputation I trust, like Robin or Kelli (and I am sure there are many more here, I have just seen their names and posts for a while), and send them a letter letting them know what I was looking for and trusting their suggestions as to what I should buy.
That's my take on it; remember I am new here so if you disagree you are welcome to post your side of it.
 
There is nothing wrong with low cost geckos. It is when someone misrepresents their low end gecko as a high end gecko. This is where the problem is.
 
dilemma

I am dead set against ANY one that intentionally misrepresents their animals. But, I'm going to stick my neck out here and play the 'devil's advocate.' Right now, I am in the process of selling several of my HT's, SHT's and a few SHTCT's that have been my main breeders for that morph for several years to make way for new bloodlines. They still produce top quality offspring SHT's and a few CT's, but they just don't look as bright and colorful as they did after a few breeding seasons. Some have turned more brownish, and a couple have even developed some of their spotting back again. Now, I would not expect to sell them for the same price as a beautiful, pristine SHTCTB by any stretch, but if I was to post an ad for them, what would I call them?
 
I think its fair you sell them as they once were. We all know the affects of color vs breeding, and you could show offspring photos and possibly older photos to justify what you do.

Especially coming from someone such as yourself, who is a widely respected breeder/hobbiest, vs some schmo selling normals-- its like comparing oranges to apples.

Michael
 
I think that a picture is worth a thousand words. As long as there is a pic to show the buyer what they are getting I don't think that nomenclature is as important.

But, I agree that it is always a disapointment to click on an ad expecting to see a super hypo tang carrot tail and instead see a reduced spotted high yellow with some orange spots on the tail.

-Alice
 
I think a picture is worth a thousand words...or bucks here. I don't really pay attention to ads without a picture (unless the person states one is available). I also try to double check a picture of one that I am interested in to make sure it isn't special lighting or a touch up.
I try to take the best pictures I can as well.
If I see an ad and someone is stating it is a SHCT and it is pretty much a regular Leo, I try to remember that person so as not to ever consider buying from them. It is very important as a breeder to make sure you have a very happy customer. It only takes one unhappy customer to ruin your reputation and if it is for a gross misrepresentation of a Leo it makes you look like a dumb a$$ who doesn't even know their morphs.
I would like to see an "official" standard for the different morphs!
There have been times when I have a Leo and I think to myself, "Just what the heck morph is this one?"
 
I agree, a picture is the only way to know now adays as you cant just take someones word unless they are a well known breeder. I always see ads that say hypo tangerine and it is just a high yellow or ones that say carrottail with a speck of orange on it. I often see leos being sold as baldys with spots on the head sometimes it only has a few but thats all it takes for it NOT to be a baldy. Just because you find some cheap leos doesnt mean they are bad or good it all depends. Say one person likes a Hypotangerine leo and pays $100 and another person likes a normal or Highyellow and also pays $100 it would be because of what they preffer even if the morph is not as expensive. Some people would pay more for what they like. Im not saying that its right for people to charge high amounts for normals or anything but some people are willing to pay more for their taste and not neccesarily the value. All in all I am tired of seeing leos being misrepresented and I dont think that will stop thats why all we can do is try to inform people of whats what and its value. People that usualy buy the high yellows as SH and what not are mostly newbees that dont know better. All I can say is if you see somthing you like look a few other places and compare not only the cost but the looks (color, pattern) and all that good stuff.
 
Looks like a lot of aberrants get sold as jungles, too.

I do wish I were better at recognizing the differences between different tang lines, so I can tell instantly if what is being sold truly came from HISS, Urban, Albey, or whatever blood line the seller claims them to be.
 
not so sure

but always have thought abberant is the same thing as jungle ,myself ? and hypo does mean reduced patterning !!! not that a high yellow should be called tang. ! but there are varying levels of hypo etc. ! super hypo or baldies being the most extreme ! there are such thing as hypo yellows sure , !!!! why dont we all put our two cents together , and make a morph-list w/ pix and descriptions for people on here ?????????????? what do you say ??
 
There actually was one... GeneticsCalculator.com ... it had a calculator for all the undisputed leo morphs (except it had Giants), and it had a pictorial of I think atleast 15 morphs...

Something happened with the re-newal of their site, and unfortunately it no longer exists.

Michael
 
I personally really like the idea of a listing and I think it would be helpful to a lot of people. I myself would have to say I don't care what breeders call their geckos. Misrepresentation means nothing to me. When I see the picture, I can tell whether it is something I am wanting or not, and can judge from the pic if it is worth the amount they are asking for. Would a rose smell as sweet if it went by another name?
 
www.geneticswizard.com

damn i used to use that one !!!here is one just to help figure out probability !! dont think it has the morph thing though !
 
The genetics calculator is only good for recessive genes, not line bred genes...... You can never have a het for carrot tail or a het for tangerine or a het for super hypo and what not...... That only counts for blizzards, albinos, patternles, ond other recessive genes.....
 
hi ?

who ever said anything about a het for carrottail , tangerine or hypo ????? i sure didnt see it in this thread !!! please point it out to me if it says that in here !!!
 
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