What method do you use to ship?

[Dianne Johnson]

Currently I am not shipping any reptiles but I have been trying to find a way since last year. The local airline did not approve me as a registered shipper because I will not be shipping with any frequency (I only plan on producing one, maybe two, litters of boas per year, if that). UPS, FedEx, and Airborne Express told me they don't ship live animals...despite the fact that both myself and my best friend have gotten shipments of live animals from two of the three. Whichever company comes through and allows shipment of live harmless reptiles for a reasonable rate will get my business.

Dianne

 

[pappy1473]

shipping method

Until recently, we used Airborne express. When we first decided a few years ago to use them as our primary shipping method, it was because I had made several phone calls to the various shipping companies and they told me if packed appropriately they would ship my reptiles as long as they were not venomous snakes or lizards, naturally I chose them because everyone else I called said NO reptiles!! So a couple of days before Christmas 2003, I took some blue tongue skinks to the airborne facility (and I was at airborne atleast once a week dropping off packages), the box marked appropriately "live harmless lizards" and at 9:00pm that night they called me to pick up my lizards that they wouldnt ship them. It was quite a fiasco. I had words with the manager when I got there!! They told me they do not ship ANY reptiles except some turtles and other amphibians were OK. After a few years of shipping with them, this is how they treated me. UPS and fed-ex both would not help me and I tried to get some sort of special account where they would make an exception but they told me they didnt do that. So what do you do? I feel forced into using USPS because that is the only way I can mark my packages clearly and not be turned away!!

Shannon Richards
C&S Reptiles

 

[tarheelreptile]

Want Proof?

If you want proof that it is illegal to ship reptiles using a ground carrier, go to the IATA website and click on the "contact us" button. Then simply ask them. You'll get an answer that you won't like very much! Or you can buy their $80 (LOR) book and read it. Or you can contact The Dept. Of US Fish & Wildlife and they'll tell you the same thing. Or contact your local Police Dept./Animal Control and ask them. Better remain anonymous! Their answer will be "animal cruelty". Even better, ask USPS, UPS, Fed Ex, or Airbourne Express why they don't allow live animals. I have, I know what they say, "It's Federal Law". Check out the 1981 Amendments to the Lacey Act regarding reptiles. Or read the Animal Welfare Act. Believe me or not, I really don't care. Nothing is going to change. The public has been bitching and moaning about this subject since the 1980's. So, if you want proof, now you know where to get it.

 

[BryonsBoas]

In my area

You better be friends with the counter person or you are not shipping . I've tried UPS , Fed Ex and the post office and I usually find 1 person there that will ship anything for me but if they are not working the counter when i walk in I'm screwed.

Bryon Adzic

 

[Mite]

I know a lot of people use different shippers but I prefer the good ol' U. S. Mail for several reasons.
First of all, they are the ONLY shippers that accept live animals. I'm not into lying to get the job done.
Second, I trust that government (even pseodo government) workers are into their own creature comforts. They aren't going to leave my packages on some frozen shipping dock or in the back of a 100° plus brown van. They're going to work in a relatively comfortable environment.
I'm not the biggest shipper but in 5 years, I've only lost one animal for no apparent reason. It was delivered on time and the box was in perfect condition. I even suspected being scammed by the recipient but gave him the benefit of the doubt anyways.
Besides, I pack well enough that the animals should last 4 plus days en route just in case.
I think most of the problems arise because of the shipper not packaging well and just blaming the shipping company.

 

[Pennebaker]

Yea, you might need to do a different poll--my vote is incorrect when it comes to snakes. I ship UPS approved, but only for lizards, not snakes. In fact, I shyed away from breeding snakes for a number of years due to the shipping issues. This upcoming year, I'm going to need a shipper for them though.

As for the legalities--when you sign the reptile shipping contract with UPS it goes into the legal jargon of shipping according to IATA standards.

Dana

 

[cricket]

daily shipping

I hope that this is not too far off the topic.... I know the main discussion is snakes...

I work for a wholesale company that sells live crickets and worms. I have been in the business for 3 years. We ship 100's of packages everyday.

We have used fed-ex, airborne, ups, and usps.

We are now exclusively USPS.

Airborne has agreed to let us ship because of the $$'s involved. But the sales rep stated "if your package gets pulled off the line or it it noticed that it is a live animal there will be a $5.00 fee for special handling." I stated that ALL my shipments were live animals and he proceeded to restate the above. So is it safe to assume that he was telling me to "bend/break" the rules? OR WHAT was the implication??? I have no idea.

Airborne has damaged more packages then I want to admit and when we paid top dollar for next AM delivery, packages were still arriving late and damages. Airborne refused to refund anything....


As for UPS - they have not temp controlled vehicles or buildings in most states and we all know that animals can't survive that.

USPS has been wonderful! They have taken care of every shipment that was late or damaged, they investigate what happend how and why and then rectified the situation with us.


Will USPS allow you to ship snakes?

 

[WebSlave]

USPS is still a gray area, as far as I know. I did some investigation a while back, starting with the congressional bills passed to create the US Postal Service. Nowhere is there any mention of the word "snakes" until you get to what is known as the Domestic Mail Manual. That is the first place I have found any mention of a prohibition against sending live snakes through the USPS. But, I do not believe that this manual constitutes federal law. I believe it is nothing more than a policy guideline. But such a distinction would probably require the services of an attorney to research this fully.

At one time I had the mailing address of the US Postmaster General and had intended to write him a letter asking about this situation, but I regret that I have never actually followed through on that intention.

But I do think that it would be a good idea to cover as many bases as possible. Actually, if there is no specific federal law prohibiting the USPS from accepting and shipping snakes, this may actually be easier to pursue than private corporations. But the federal government isn't known for speedy responses or quick fixes. So many of us could reach retirement age before even something like this would ever get serious steps taken to resolve it.

But I do think the federal government may be more sensitive to the accusation of a discriminatory policy being used by one of their branches. Darn, I just remembered. Someone contacted me a long time ago and said he was going to pursue this from the inside. He worked for the USPS and was going to go up through channels. Darn... wish I could remember who that was....

Anyone have some time to research federal USPS statutes?

 

[BryonsBoas]

Don't know if its the same or not

But the guy at the local postoffice here told me the reg was turtles , torts , lizards including geckos and alligators up to 24" were allowable but no live snakes and according to him its a federal thing set up by the postmaster.I've checked on it a few times and thats the answer i get everytime.

Bryon Adzic

I'm thinking a 24" alligator will be more hazardous than a 18" boa or corn snake .

 

[Donel]

I have shipped boas with all the shipping companies,and found FED-EX to be the best.I have had USPS gaurantee next day and not make the delivery on more than one occasion.I have found UPS handles the boxes pretty rough(I've had boxes arrive that were damaged during shipping even though fragile was written all over the box).But everything I have shipped through FED-Ex has arrived on time and in good condition.As of right now,every company in my area will not ship harmless snakes if they know what your shipping.I tried the" telling em what your shipping thing" and the only one who said they would ship snakes was Airbourne,well low and behold,3 hrs after I dropped off the package they called me and told me they didn't ship snakes.So I had to go pick up the package.Hopefully someday all these companies will come to their senses and we'll be able to tell em what's in the box!LOL!!!!!

 

[snakepimp]

UPS takes my snakes, and ...

I tell them they are lizards. I'd like to see one of them explain the biological differences between the two.
But I agree that it's time to come out of the closet with this thing (or out of the woodwork) This is an entire industry, and we need to stand up....blahblablah. Just like Rich is sayin...

 

[cricket]

USPS

USPS Regulations
Here is the link that is specific to mailing animals / reptiles.

http://www.usps.com/cpim/ftp/pubs/pub52.htm

To sum it up the USPS states...



quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
525.3 Reptiles
All snakes, turtles, and poisonous reptiles are nonmailable.
525.4 Poisonous Insects and Spiders
All poisonous insects and spiders, except scorpions under limited circumstances All snakes, turtles, and poisonous reptiles are nonmailable.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------




I guess since the USPS bans the shipment of snakes, then private companies follow suit. Since the goverment sets the standards them I can see why private shippers don not want to ship them.


So it seem that the case is really against the USPS and US Governement???? If they change their regulations, then there would be a huge arguement against the private shippers for disreguard of goverment policy.

Am i looking at this all wrong? OR do you agree?


__________________
Smile -

 

[CheriS]

Ariborne accepts our packages and they know what is in them as we seal them right there at the counter and the staff always wants to see the baby lizards, but when I called the main office after hearing others say they had problems, the man there told me they will not ship them.

So I called UPS to set up an account, the first rep said they do not accept live animals, I called back later and talked to a supervisor, who put me through to one of the officers and he read the actual regulation to me, it states they do not ship venomous snakes or spiders, all other reptiles they will accept and he also stated they would make sure that information was corrected to the offices as there is a big misunderstanding on the part of their staff for this

So there is where it stands, I still use Airborne, I like the way the staff holds the animals and puts them on top for shipping and until they intercept one and not allow it, I will continue with that. But I have set up an account with UPS as a back up or shipping to southern states.

 

[WebSlave]

Cheri,

Was the "officer" you spoke to at the local office, or corporate? Everyone I have talked to has indicated that the problem originates from UPS's corporate office.

 

[Brian Oakley]

I took it upon myself to copy the link to the petition and sent it to everyone in my address book that breeds. I think if even just a dozen or two of you did the same and then those sent it on to people they know, we could get some GREAT numbers on there.
Ket's face it, there are 100's if not 1000's of people who are in to reptiles that may not come to this site.
Do what you all can to get the word out, don't just rely on this one thread.
Just by the title alone, people would have no clue that link is in this thread.

 

[WebSlave]

I just posted the link on rec.pets.herp. Some people still use the newsgroups exclusively.

 

[elrojo]

I'd love to see stats showing the method and shipper of live animals that has "the least" or ideally, no problems. I understand terrorism and such making our packages more scrutinized, but I'm at a loss. I have some nice holdbacks to ship soon that aren't worth a ton of money, but are irreplacable. Great thread, Rich and everyone.

 

[CheriS]

The person I first called was at 1-800-742-5877, who said there was not a problem with them when I set up my account. Later I called checking flight paths (like Airborne goes to Ohio, before changing planes to the destination) and the man told me they do not accept reptiles. I called back on a Monday and that person transferred me to an officer, who read to me that they do accept snake, lizards, etc, but not venomous or spiders.

He stated he was aware there was conflicting thoughts with their staff and they would memo them to resolve it.

PLEASE NOTE: this is NOT what their site says, this was something he was reading to me from their company policy. I do not know if this was just for account holders or general public. But he did assure me they were aware of what I shipped and it was acceptable.

Sorry, I should have got his name, I will try and get it again Monday

 

[dzoo]

I receive reptiles on a regular basis via FedEx, the boxes have a big picture of a snake on the side and the name of the shipper ***Reptiles and it is being shipped to a pet store - so I don't think there is much doubt what is in the box! The driver asked once if it was snakes (maybe setting me up???) and I said it was insects and left it at that.

Fedex and Airborne have never let me down- when I am expecting a shipment I have to get to the shop extra early to be sure I don't miss them! USPS has never failed me either but of course it is wise to pack the animals as if they will be in the box several days in case something does delay them. UPS on the other hand totally sucks, the drivers don't knock, just leave a slip "sorry we missed you" , they drop the boxes right in front of you, put the box on my counter upside down clearly marked "This way up" - etc., etc.

The ban on the shipping of live reptiles has to be based on someones fear or misunderstanding of reptiles, the way the animals are packaged and shipped is no different than the other packages they handle. I can understand that they do not want to guarantee live arrival, I think that is asking too much, kind of like shipping a delicate crystal vase and expecting it to arrive undamaged- if you pack it right it will be o.k. .

The USPS allows the shipping of live poultry - you can ship anything from a day old chick up to a full grown live turkey overnight or second day mail - so why would they care about snakes sealed inside a box? Here is some info. from a company that makes the boxes to mail poultry:
http://www.hm-e.net/po.htm

FedEx has no problem shipping live fish, it's the number 2 item they ship from Arkansas :
http://www.msstate.edu/dept/srac/baitfish.htm
I'll bet a box of leaking fish could cause a lot more damage en route than a box of reptiles.

I think all shippers take crickets which probably get loose all the time in transit - so why the fuss about reptiles?

Dave Cheris

 

[thomas davis]

well?

This is a copy of the message you sent to kingsnake.com Site Coordinator
--------------------------------
hello i have noticed that you(PHWyvern)recently posted on faunaclassifieds.com's BOI('bout the porn links),i also understand that there is some differances in between ya'll two sites competition or something not really sure,but i do know its not allowed to metion or post about faunas BOI on any ks forums?,i would ask an exception to be made in one case on faunas BOI,there is a current thread/poll to get the shipping thing in our(herp)industry resolved once and for all the bigwigs from fedex,airboreex,ups are all reading it and need the feedback and numbers from breeders who ship, i would ask if i may or you post a link to that thread on the shipping forum of kingsnake.com forums,differances aside this matter is trully beneficial for the herp comunity as a whole please let me know if i may mention/post this on the shipping forum thanks for your time,,,,,,,,,thomas davis T&S reptile farm ETHSmember since '01,houston,tx,,,well i sent this and then relized it wasnt him that posted that here but someone copy/posted that from ks to here nonetheless, ifeel its impt. to get this message out and ks should at least allow mention of this on their shipping forum anyway hope it doesnt offend anyone sorry if it does,,,,,,,thomas davis T&S reptile farm,houstn tx,ETHS member since'01