WHAT SHOULD I DO! ASAP

[eddieriv]

Fed ex and UPS don't usually ring the doorbell, they knock. In a lot of houses doorbells don't work..... Knock, Knock, always works. They won't stand around and wait for you..... Knock, Knock, on to the next house.


I'm glad that the animals live was important to you....

Do you work for UPS/FEDEX? Seriously some of you people shouldn't even be on this site at all. I live in a two family house hold this has happened to me on two seperate occasions where the drivers have not knocked or rang the doorbell not even post a note on my door. The first time it happened the driver didnt even drive down the street which I found out by calling up UPS and there excuse was that the road was covered in snow WTF!?!?!?! They couldnt even call or notify me of this all they did was post online that they attempted but no one was home. So they decide not to come to my house and yet they post that i wasn't home. This time it happens they never left a note of the door to even say they had been there so I don't know if they even made a first attempt because like the first time they admitted to not showing up.

Also seriously who are you to say that I don't care about the life of the animal. It was a beautiful snake and should of never died, didn't deserve to die and I wish this post didnt have to exist. If I didn't care about the life of the animal I would of never called UPS screaming at them for not showing up and to get this package to me ASAP!

A 40 hour heat pack is industry standard. Trying to blame this on the seller in any way you can find is just wrong. There is one person to blame for that missed delivery, and it's not him. That's alllll you. If the temps are in the 80s there, it was very likely warmer than that in the back of that truck. Insulation or not, that's going to affect the animal. A heat pack raises the temps in the box 5-10 degrees, and it certainly would have contributed. BUT. That box shouldn't have still been on the truck. If you had been watching and waiting, it would have been long unpacked before you reached midday temps..

Yeah, it sucks. But where will you be next time you're expecting a live animal that depends on you to sign for it? If you can't be bothered waiting, perhaps receiving live animals by carrier isn't a good idea for you.

As for you Magic, never did I name drop the seller or make anyone remotely aware of the individual to disrespect his business but honestly how are you going to just flat out get all mad at me for being upset that I received a dead snake when i made it a point to be home for it. Granted UPS didn't deliver the first time but I put the effort to make sure they brought it the same day because I can't pick up an animal from the warehouse when its still on the truck. Some of you people lack common sense and simple conversation skills. I never attacked anyone on this thread and all you some of you have done was pointed the finger at me when I simply asked a simple question of what I should do. I can understand if I wasn't home but i was and the fact that you can come on here and tell me to live in learn is just ridiculous.

 

[Twizted Paths]

I can only hope you do learn. If you can't be bothered to wait by the door then for the next animal's sake schedule it to be picked up by you at a hub or store, it's cheaper anyway.

I wait out front from 730 am until I walk up to the truck and take possession of my animal.

Also, you asked for our thoughts, not people to agree with you.

 

[Melinda]

UPS has repeatedly dropped a box at the door (wrong side up) and not knocked or rung the bell. We usually hear the truck and head for the door while the driver is on his way back to the truck. Just this week I missed a delivery. I was home, DH was home and 3 dogs that always bark when someone rings or knocks were home. No TV, radio or other noise to drown out a knock, doorbell or barking dogs. My couch is 5 feet away from the door. The dogs sleep approximately 15 feet away from the door. The doc's says my hearing is fine. It's weird how I always hear Fed Ex knock and repeatedly fail to hear UPS.

schedule it to be picked up by you at a hub or store, it's cheaper anyway.

Great idea! I'm gonna do this from now on.

 

[The Python Lab]

just for the record I live in chicago and it was 40 here today and not much warmer yesterday. The low for tonight is supposed to be 33.

 

[ted1025]

I haven't received many snakes in the mail but when I am expecting them I'll leave a big note on my front door, "I'm home, RING BELL!!!".

I'll also wake up around 6am and then head down to the couch in the living and go back to sleep until the bell wakes me....

 

[hhmoore]

This is part of why I don't use UPS...and, with very few exceptions, avoid receiving animals from them (the shipper has to have a widely known reputation for excellence, or be somebody that has earned my confidence).
That said, you've had a problem with UPS in the past and you took a somewhat casual approach to receiving your animal....don't get bent when people point that out.
The suggestion to have your package held for pickup is a good one, especially in cold or warm weather (there is a very limited "perfect range") - though, admittedly, my experience is that UPS is hit or miss on this, as well. I've had a handful of "Hold for pickup" packages riding around on a truck all day...in a few cases, that WAS the fault of the shipper not setting it up properly; but other times it 100% UPS' screwup.

All of that said, while I can see your point, I can also see the seller's. If there had been a shipping delay, it would have been a different story...but, what is documented is that you missed the first delivery attempt.

 

[Shadera]

Nowhere did I "get all mad". I just refuse to perpetuate the increase of diabetes in this country by slapping a crunchy sugar coating on what I say. I don't see any reason to beat around the bush. You asked what others thought, and those are my thoughts. An animal is dead because you were negligent.

I checked the temps, and in both Chicago and Kentucky where UPS routes through, the temps were pretty low. The shipper did the right thing by adding a heat pack to that box, otherwise you'd be complaining you got snake-cicles. If it's warmer in the place it's going, things should be fine as long as the package is off the truck before the afternoon heat starts.

Do you work for UPS/FEDEX?

I have hauled freight for both those companies, and then worked as a contractor for FedEx. Those trucks go out loaded to the gills with packages and the delivery routes are often long. Schedules allow for very little extra time. They don't have ten minutes to stay at your home banging on the door and peeking in windows to see if they can find you. They have, literally, seconds to try and make that delivery. And unless you had no idea it was coming, there is no excuse for you to have missed it. FedEx and UPS both knock once then run here, but they never get that chance because during that delivery window my happy butt is sitting there doing something within earshot of that truck. They are often just stepping out of the truck as I open the door.

 

[garweft]

Do you work for UPS/FEDEX? Seriously some of you people shouldn't even be on this site at all. I live in a two family house hold this has happened to me on two seperate occasions where the drivers have not knocked or rang the doorbell not even post a note on my door. The first time it happened the driver didnt even drive down the street which I found out by calling up UPS and there excuse was that the road was covered in snow WTF!?!?!?! They couldnt even call or notify me of this all they did was post online that they attempted but no one was home. So they decide not to come to my house and yet they post that i wasn't home. This time it happens they never left a note of the door to even say they had been there so I don't know if they even made a first attempt because like the first time they admitted to not showing up.

No, I teach college algebra. But I do personally know 3 people who are delivery drivers. Since I do a fair amount of shipping and receiving I tend to ask questions about deliveries and package handling. If your street is snow covered and they cannot drive down it they will attempt delivery at a later date when the road is cleared. UPS and Fed ex are not set up with live animals in mind and do not treat them any different than any other package.

Also seriously who are you to say that I don't care about the life of the animal. It was a beautiful snake and should of never died, didn't deserve to die and I wish this post didnt have to exist. If I didn't care about the life of the animal I would of never called UPS screaming at them for not showing up and to get this package to me ASAP!

Then why did you say this.....

I can't be posted at my window or doorstep waiting.

Your words, not mine. You were too busy to watch for a live animal that you knew was being delivered to you. If this is your attitude you need to stick to buying local.

I have a steep, bumpy driveway that the UPS and Fed ex drivers will not drive down, That means they need to walk 100 yards downhill to deliver my packages. Until I knew for sure that the drivers on my route would actually attempt all deliveries I had everything living held for pickup. I still have all live animals shipped thru Fed ex held because I have not had the deliveries to figure him out yet. It's 2 hours round trip to the Fedex office, but until I know if he'll make the walk, it's my only option.

I have personally seen my UPS driver carry down a full box of F/T rodents in excess of 40-50 lbs. And when our driveway was snow covered he called when he arrived and I drove up to meet him.... I trust him to attempt delivery. And even though he parks way out of earshot I have always met him halfway up the driveway and thanked him personally for walking down.

When a live delivery is on it's way it is the most important thing I have to do that day until it is alive and well in quarantine.

 

[AbsoluteApril]

They don't have ten minutes to stay at your home banging on the door and peeking in windows to see if they can find you. They have, literally, seconds to try and make that delivery.

just wanted to back up this statement that yes, it's literally seconds! UPS drivers are trained and taught to do everything quickly. Excerpts from the linked news story:
"must successfully execute five deliveries in 19 minutes." (that's 3.8 min. per delivery max)
"UPS allows 15.5 seconds to park a truck and retrieve one package from the cargo,"
"This (ice) is the one time UPS relents on its rule that drivers walk at a "brisk pace," or 2.5 paces per second.)"

Link:http://www.fox43.com/news/wpmt-ups-jobs-training-20100408,0,6316666.story?track=rss

Personally, I get all packages delivered at work that way there is always someone to receive the package if for some reason I am not already out there waiting for the truck (which I usually am).

I'm really sorry to hear about the death of the BP. I think the seller is being nice offering you a replacement for a discount when they probably could fall back on TOS and claim they don't owe anything at all. I hope you are both able to come to a satisfactory agreement and work with each other.

 

[bammer838]

I concur that the temps were low which required a heat pad.

I had a Lav. Ablino delivered via UPS and I waited outside in the 30 degree weather for pickup. My phone was at hand and moitoring the deliveria via UPS.com global tracker. Live animals are delivered very very early in my experience with UPS, which is around 930-10am. I know it was a pain to wait, but I was eager to ensure the snake was safe and secure. Yes, you lost a snake. Not only just a snake but a great pet. I would not have waited how many hours later to find out where it is at. Nowadays, everyone has access to a phone and internet. Yes you can contact UPS regarding your package. I have utilized these methods in the past. I think it is admirable that the seller is offering you another, although smaller, for a reduced price. The seller can prove negligence by not taking the necessary precautions to prevent potential harm or death by checking shipment early and locating that truck. I know it can be done, because I have done that in the past. The animal was only 20 minutes longer in that truck. Just my .02. I mean no disrespect, but the snake is not a CD player or something from home shopping club where it really doesnt matter when it arrives. We are talking about a living, breathing pet which you seem to care about. The snake is no different than a dog or cat which placed ion that perspective, one would go out of their way to accomodate for their safety. You cannot put a price on that.

just for the record I live in chicago and it was 40 here today and not much warmer yesterday. The low for tonight is supposed to be 33.

 

[deborahbroadus]

Just wanted this out there..I wish I had thought of it before, or that the buyer had..if he wasn't too late..a limp animal can sometimes be revived by running some cold/lukwarm water over the body (not in the face).

 

[eddieriv]

just wanted to back up this statement that yes, it's literally seconds! UPS drivers are trained and taught to do everything quickly. Excerpts from the linked news story:
"must successfully execute five deliveries in 19 minutes." (that's 3.8 min. per delivery max)
"UPS allows 15.5 seconds to park a truck and retrieve one package from the cargo,"
"This (ice) is the one time UPS relents on its rule that drivers walk at a "brisk pace," or 2.5 paces per second.)"

Link:http://www.fox43.com/news/wpmt-ups-jobs-training-20100408,0,6316666.story?track=rss

Personally, I get all packages delivered at work that way there is always someone to receive the package if for some reason I am not already out there waiting for the truck (which I usually am).

I'm really sorry to hear about the death of the BP. I think the seller is being nice offering you a replacement for a discount when they probably could fall back on TOS and claim they don't owe anything at all. I hope you are both able to come to a satisfactory agreement and work with each other.

The shipper knows that it is literally seconds so why did the shipper mark signature required? This wouldn't of happened if the snake was shipped with signature and don;t tell me it was necessary because its not and many breeders out there know this. If these drivers don't have time to wait then leave the package in the hallway I would of at least checked the hallway. Let me add that I received a snake on Wednesday as well and I had no problem getting the package because I sat in my living room by the door and waited heard the doorbell and ran to get it. I did the exact same thing yesterday and never heard a doorbell or a truck. I asked what people thought yes but it doesn't mean you that you have to assume that i was negligent. If the shipper packed it the right way and not placed a heat pack directly on top of the snakes bag and only two holes in the bag the snake would have been prepared for a delay. Sorry but I spoke to many BP breeders on the matter and they would agree that signature required was the fault of the shipper.

 

[R. Eventide]

The shipper knows that it is literally seconds so why did the shipper mark signature required? This wouldn't of happened if the snake was shipped with signature and don;t tell me it was necessary because its not and many breeders out there know this.

Same could be asked of you. Both the seller and buyer should be aware of shipping practices. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the "signature required" option used so that the package isn't just left on the porch?

If these drivers don't have time to wait then leave the package in the hallway I would of at least checked the hallway. Let me add that I received a snake on Wednesday as well and I had no problem getting the package because I sat in my living room by the door and waited heard the doorbell and ran to get it. I did the exact same thing yesterday and never heard a doorbell or a truck.

But what if you hadn't noticed the package on the porch for several hours? Whose fault would it have been, then? There have been quite a few live animal shipments left on porches for too long and the animal has died. This is no better of an option.

I asked what people thought yes but it doesn't mean you that you have to assume that i was negligent. If the shipper packed it the right way and not placed a heat pack directly on top of the snakes bag and only two holes in the bag the snake would have been prepared for a delay. Sorry but I spoke to many BP breeders on the matter and they would agree that signature required was the fault of the shipper.

Um, the heat pack is supposed to be taped to the top insulation with the snake in the space underneath. Also, I'm surprised the snake bag had holes in it. Snake bags are permeable, so they do not need holes.

Maybe some people automatically assumed you were negligent, but most read what happened and came to that conclusion based on the information you gave. I was willing to give you the benefit of the doubt, but now it looks like you're trying to come up with any excuse for this to not be your fault (e.g. snake bag with holes, heat pack location).

How many BP breeders did you talk to?

 

[eddieriv]

The snake bag did not have holes the box had two holes. I spoke to about 4 BP breeders about the issue and yes thats not a huge number but all of them agree that they would have not put a signiture required. Keep in mind I did not get a ring or a knock anyway for the first attempt and UPS had an excuse the first time this happened in February being that my shipping address didnt have 2nd floor on it. I changed that obviously but i really don't see how I am at fault, the only thing people are saying is that I have to wait on a porch all day. Not everyone sits on there porch waiting for a package i'm sorry i'm not going to sit here and believe that one bit. Its the delivery companies job to deliver the item and they didn't do it, whether they never showed up or didnt ring the doorbell they there wasn't a slip on my door. I only found out by getting a notification email that comes directly to my phone. Also I rather have the box left in my hallway then on the truck for 4 hours. My hallway door is open everyone else that ships to my house leaves packages in the hallway and also the hallway is not 90 degrees. When the shipper has to lie to me and tell me that a heat pack peaks at 80 degrees and it actually peaks to 115 degrees he knows he is at fault. Also to tell me that he is no longer willing to send me a new snake because of these threads is a ridiculous when I never name dropped at all. If you people want to say its my fault go ahead, this was my first snake I expected my first snake purchase to be a good one and it wasn't and instead of being stand up people in the hobby you are gonna tell me to live and learn and cut my loses. That's a great way to sell your self as business people I should say. I really don't feel like continuing this thread. All i wanted was a snake so I could be introduced to this hobby and instead I get a dead snake from a breeder that never discussed his shipping methods at all or notified me of how he would ship or that he didn't think it was a good time to ship due to weather. If you people want to continue to bash me and call me negligent go right ahead but because of this experience I decided to stick with breeding dragons because I have found out the number of stand up individuals in the herp trade is dwindling quite rapidly unfortunately.

 

[eddieriv]

If any of you are wondering why I didnt take his $100 spider off its because I was so disgusted that I opened a box with a dead snake that I didnt want to pursue the hobby any further. I will stick to breeding my beardies and thats that. I have had numerous animals come to my house and never did this happen, the snake I got Wednesday came in tip top shape and I would like to thank Brian Fontaine of Morph Evolutions because I can honestly say that he made more of an effort to help me out than the other breeder.

 

[Bob O'Brien]

You posted earlier that you were not blaming the seller, now you are putting the blame on him, which is it? No one is saying sit on your porch all day packages start being delivered at 9 and are almost always delivered by 10, in no way was this your fault if they never did stop, but it is in absolutely no way the sellers fault. I think you need to stop getting affended by our opinions when you asked for them. Again I put the blame completely on UPS (if they didnt knock, which is know to happen) but there not going to do anything about it.

 

[R. Eventide]

Also I rather have the box left in my hallway then on the truck for 4 hours. My hallway door is open everyone else that ships to my house leaves packages in the hallway and also the hallway is not 90 degrees.

The shipper doesn't know this unless you tell him.

When the shipper has to lie to me and tell me that a heat pack peaks at 80 degrees and it actually peaks to 115 degrees he knows he is at fault.

Uh, what's this? I don't recall you even mentioning heat pack peak temperatures before. Besides, almost everyone uses the same 40-hour heat packs without issue.

Also to tell me that he is no longer willing to send me a new snake because of these threads is a ridiculous when I never name dropped at all.

Again, this is the first you've said anything about this.

[...]this was my first snake I expected my first snake purchase[...]

So...you didn't actually get a snake on Wednesday?

instead I get a dead snake from a breeder that never discussed his shipping methods at all or notified me of how he would ship or that he didn't think it was a good time to ship due to weather.

If he didn't feel comfortable shipping in that weather, then he probably would've said something. I don't think the temps were too extreme at either end (but that's my opinion). You need to make sure you understand the seller's shipping methods and how he will ship. That is your responsibility.

I got an Albino ball python back in January. I assumed the shipper was using FedEx, so I gave him a FedEx drop-off location as the address. He was actually shipping UPS, and when I found out, I panicked because the FedEx place won't accept non-FedEx packages. I was scared to death for the life of that poor snake, having to ride around on the truck all day. Everything turned out fine, but if something had happened, the fault would've lied squarely on my shoulders. Why? Because I never actually asked what company he was using to ship! That is my fault.

If you people want to continue to bash me and call me negligent go right ahead but because of this experience I decided to stick with breeding dragons because I have found out the number of stand up individuals in the herp trade is dwindling quite rapidly unfortunately.

So we're bad businessmen and not stand-up individuals because we don't agree with you? Er...okay, then, if that's the way you want to look at it, that's your prerogative.

 

[WingedWolf]

I think this was a really tragic event, and I hope it is one that everyone who reads it will learn from.
I have seen 'signature required' being recommended NUMEROUS times--to protect sellers. But it is clear that this may be doing a lot more harm than good. Yes, Fed Ex has ALSO dumped packages on my porch and run, or left a note and taken off before I could get there. When you do not know when they will arrive, are you going to sit RIGHT THERE for the entire day waiting? What if you have to use the bathroom? (This has actually happened to me with a shipment at least once).

Clearly it is safer for the animal if no signature is required, or you have the animal held at the hub for pickup, and we should all be recommending that as a standard course of action for live animal shipping.

 

[Bob O'Brien]

Would it be possible to see a pic of the snake, just to know were not all wasting our time reading these.

 

[eddieriv]

Yes I got a snake on wednesday, This was my first snake purchase period I paid for the Spider before I got the other snake. I put half down then paid the other half but I had gotten my first snake already. Understand? Here are pics for people that keep questioning