What the heck happened here?

[Gloryhound]

The most logical is the black pastel has Russo or something similar.

To prove it out I would say breed the black pastel to another female that is in the BEL complex and see what happens. Also breed the male to a large normal and see what comes out (you want lots of babies here so your odds of the genes from the black pastel seperating out are increased), lastly breed him to the same female and see what happens if she gets up to size.

 

[Montoya]

The most logical is the black pastel has Russo or something similar.

To prove it out I would say breed the black pastel to another female that is in the BEL complex and see what happens.

I vote similar, this black pastel does not appear to have russo in it. On the cross the black pastel will be significantly lighter in color and underneath the pattern is very blushed all the way down the length of the body. I only know because I produced it last season.

Pictures for reference.

Hatch with BP sibling on right

Post shed

Nine months old on right

 

[Breaking Balls]

parthogenesis?

Get sheds from mom and babies, send to Dr Warren Booth

I was thinking something similar, April, but it doesn't line up. Even it if was parthenogenesis, there's no way a heterozygous animal could produce a homozygous animal.

Very odd.

motley boa female parthogenesis can and has produced the super motley.
The babies get 2 copies from the mom, one could be normal, one could be lesser so you could get normals, lessers or bels. (at least, as I understand it and looking at the motley boa example). edit to add - also read about null partho or something like that, basically the baby really only gets one gene from mom and the other is 'null' or blank so if it gets lesser it becomes bel. I am not very familiar with that last theory but thought I should add it in...

Also, maybe I missed it eariler, but was this female with a male last year? Could it be retained sperm possibly?

One easy way to dispel that theory is to check the gender of the babies...if there's a male, it wasn't parthenogenesis. If they're all females, then the discussion continues, lol.

This is all correct. It could have a damaged copy of the gene so it appears as a homozygous animal but will not produce all Lessers. Nick Mutton posted a really good explaination for this on not very long ago. I'd send the sheds off but it all adds up. Still cool!

Regards,

B

 

[Ponderosa Snake]

I have a mojave female that will be up to size that I could put him with. If it is partho or a false gene I am not sure I want to do that as I have other plans for her. I will put him with a virgin normal and the lesser this season. Figure with the virgin there isn't a chance at retained sperm.

 

[Warren_Booth]

Hi,
Sex the offspring in the clutch, then save shed skins dry, in separate envelopes, along with sheds from the mother and father, and send them to me at the address below.

Dr. Warren Booth
The University of Tulsa
800 South Tucker Drive
Biological Sciences - OH304
Tulsa
OK 74104

I am more than happy to genotype these to determine reproductive mode. Also, Harold Moore has his answer slight mistaken, there is no reason that the female cannot produce a clutch composed of both sexual and asexual offspring. I have a study soon to be published document such a behavior, and showing that it is actually quite common.
If you can contact me using the details at my departmental website

Warren

 

[hhmoore]

Also, Harold Moore has his answer slight mistaken, there is no reason that the female cannot produce a clutch composed of both sexual and asexual offspring. I have a study soon to be published document such a behavior, and showing that it is actually quite common.

Thank you for pointing that out - I didn't realize that it was possible, let alone common.
I'm actually quite interested in your study...when published, how accessible will it be? Will you update us when it is available?

 

[Warren_Booth]

The evolution of parthenogenesis is a major avenue of research in my laboratory at The University of Tulsa. I have a number of studies underway with students in my lab and with collaborators across the US that will allow us to investigate the mechanisms responsible for this reproductive behavior, the implications in natural populations (See my current paper in Biology Letters regarding the discovery in wild pitviper populations - lots of media interest associated with it), and its occurrence across squamate phylogenies. As soon as further papers are published I will update everyone. Generally, with the heavy hitting papers, the media has done a very good job at doing that for me (e.g. parthenogenesis in Boa constrictors, in wild vertebrate populations, and long-term sperm storage)

Warren