What to do about a weird situation?

[Leighanne]

Disappointed.

Seamus would you please kindly give me the definition of asterix? Its not in the Merriam-Webster Dictionary I have. Its just doesn't look like it fits in right in your first sentence using it.

Also you are right I do lack common sense which makes impatient people use words like "idiot." My Fiancee used to tell me that often but I have it cut back to once a week now. lol The lack of common sense comes from the lack of stress relieving techniques which haven't been learned in life yet. I am 21. Its called being flustered. Unfocused. An since you don't actually now me let me lay down some other interesting facts. I am quit smart. I am also disappointed though that somebody as smart sounding as you are is lowered to insulting instead of teaching. You use your vocabulary not to teach but to win your way by outwording people? I came here and I am here to LEARN. Point blank. If I didn't care so much about my animals I would leave the worlds unloading at work, where I actually get paid.

If I haven't learned anything why don't you come tell me that in all my other posts? I have actually learned quit a bit about Leopard Geckos, excelled with the Rats and AS STATED still feel very insecure about my Snakes. There are two people here caring for these animals except for the Snakes. My Fiancee doesn't bother with them, thats all me. An LadyOhh I have already stated before the Rescues are going to a new home with somebody on Fauna who IS more qualified, financially and educationally through experience. Its not just animal chores either in life its the rest of life that makes a person run around like a chicken with its head cut off. I have ran thin but obviously not TO thin. I am still glad I had the experience with the Rescues and the chance to save 8 beautiful Creatures. I have also already stated I am doing the responsible adult, mature, ethnically, right thing to do this year. Backing away from Critters for awhile until I get my stuff straight around here. I have learned to NEVER buy a Snake from a Pet Store again.

I have also talked to a couple Herpers over the phone in which case one told me it was OK to feed chicken legs, or whatever and I still didn't proceed to do so without asking. So I didn't just get that info just off the internet. I will NOT state names though. Between posts, phone and chat rooms I have gotten so much different info on Balls no wonder I am confused. People can't agree on anything.

I am very disappointed that those older then me and with more experience snap and insult and don't teach. With attitudes like that no wonder you run into people that keep there animals all wrong. I have gone to the Library for information and all their books are like 10 or 20 years old. I can't find that one Ball Book Ashton recommended nor Cathy Loves book, even in other County Libraries. An I'm not buying them yet because I have other things on my animal needs list that carry higher priority.

You guys are also GODS let me tell you. Clay keeps what 70 Snakes, Dand I read 300. I have all these problems with my mere 20 right now, and that includes feeder tanks. I have always wondered how you people do it. I mean 300 Snakes and you still do it all and all up to par. Its amazing to me.

An Cris if you don't explain where the line is then you can bet I'll cross it. Please don't do your job without explaining in which case a person isn't learning the invisible line.

You guys are right. I am to worn out from receiving crossed information and getting NO help. The future generations are what the elders make of them and you guys are absolutely outstanding with what your adding to the World, to the Herp Community and realistically a lot of people come to learn on Forums and then get a lot of attitude and then run off and do it themselves and continue to kill animals. Thanks for teaching at least that one thing though. I'll remember my cases when I run into newbies.

 

[LadyOhh]

Kristin,

I was told already by the person you are sending the Leos to that you are doing so. You NEVER mentioned it here on this thread, so no need being snippy.

Now as for everything else, if you feel so attacked and berated by people with more experience than you, maybe you should take that into consideration. You have been CONSTANTLY asking the same questions, and people have been giving you the same answers.

IT IS UP TO YOU TO TAKE WHAT INFORMATION YOU ASKED FOR AND USE IT.

I personally believe this is why people are getting so frustrated with you.

You may say that you are young, but honestly, that is not an excuse at all.
It's called being mature and responsible, and I believe you are trying, but not focusing on what needs to be done FIRST.

Now after that long winded diatribe, do you feel better?

People are STILL trying to help you. Myself included...

Keep that in mind.

 

[Leighanne]

Right there is no excuse for being young. I am young and very capable of learning. With being young though comes inexperience. People on here, not including everybody have poor attitudes. I could just go on and on but I'm sick of it.

1. One person on here tells me to feed Gerbils, Hamsters and I forget what else because variety is good and they do it. I make a post and everybody says no.

2. The person I'm sending the Rescues to is NOT the person that told me feeding raw chicken legs was alright. By the way, the raw, bone, Boas eat chickens...it kind of makes sense and nobody has explained why NOT to. I won't proceed to feed raw chicken but would like to know why not to. Otherwise when somebody asks me I'll just say I don't know why but the Forum told me not to. DUH. That sounds retarded huh?

3. What in grams is an obese weight for Leopard Geckos? Whats the healthy weight? 60? (Full grown)

4. Generally how much would a year old or so Corn Snake weigh?

5. Is it true that at least six month old Ball Pythons are generally 400 grams or so? If so nobody told me in a post. I had to re ask that question. Which makes me wonder IF her weight is actually bad or good. I know I don't give pictures though and thats a part of the problem. Sorry. I get different answers everytime and get confused, you'll have to pardon me.

Jeff, because I'm working will be buying Lickity a new rubbermaid from Target this Thursday. Hopefully, we still have to ask our friend to go to Target but hes usually kool about stuff like that because he likes running around. There are bricks on her lid for now temporarily. How redneck of me. We already know the pros and cons of aquariums versus rubbermaids and I like rubbermaid for her. Thats my choice and I was never told there was anything wrong with that so long as shes locked down

I don't know why I keep typing when nobody even sees what I'm saying .

 

[Cat_72]

Kristin, I think the big issue (or one of the bigget) is making the correct choice on just who to take advice from, and even then think about what was said. There are plenty of folks out there that have been given the wrong advice in the past, and since their animals are still alive, are more than willing to pass on that misinformation to you. You've been around here long enough, you can judge who is successful and has worked to gain the PROPER knowledge, and who hasn't. Even then, when osmeone tells you something that you've never been told by anyone else, or that many others disagree with, think it through and reason out WHY so many think it is a bad idea, or why it may be a good idea.

1. One person on here tells me to feed Gerbils, Hamsters and I forget what else because variety is good and they do it. I make a post and everybody says no.

Many of us have explained why this can be a bad idea with an animal who is already a picky eater, but has been eating rats or mice in the past. There is a difference between feeding a CH baby and a WC animal.

2. The person I'm sending the Rescues to is NOT the person that told me feeding raw chicken legs was alright. By the way, the raw, bone, Boas eat chickens...it kind of makes sense and nobody has explained why NOT to. I won't proceed to feed raw chicken but would like to know why not to. Otherwise when somebody asks me I'll just say I don't know why but the Forum told me not to. DUH. That sounds retarded huh?

Who are you contemplating feeding chicken legs to, and WHY?

3. What in grams is an obese weight for Leopard Geckos? Whats the healthy weight? 60? (Full grown)

Leos are like people....some will be bigger, some will be smaller. There are giants, and "regular" Leos. General body condition really has to be seen. It's hard to put a generic weight label on a Leo, IMO.

4. Generally how much would a year old or so Corn Snake weigh?

Honestly, I don't weigh my corns at that age unless there is one I am concerned about, so I can't give you a good answer on that one. As long as I can see that they are growing properly and feeding regularly, I don't worry about weighing them.

5. Is it true that at least six month old Ball Pythons are generally 400 grams or so? If so nobody told me in a post. I had to re ask that question. Which makes me wonder IF her weight is actually bad or good. I know I don't give pictures though and thats a part of the problem. Sorry. I get different answers everytime and get confused, you'll have to pardon me.

I answered this one in another post, yesterday or the day before? Pictures really would help immensely. And, I still think Lickity is more than 6 months old, isn't he? If he was 6 months old, he would have hatched in October of last year?

 

[Leighanne]

Well I've had Lickity for six months and she was baby size when I bought her. Lickity is the one they said I could feed chicken legs to and I am NOT going to feed her those I was just asking why not. I honestly get the visual thing and visually Jake is my model child, totally perfect. Hes is becoming my favorite Snake. lol He always eats once a week on time and is nice and firm.

The person that said they feed their Ball Hamsters or Gerbils for variety didn't say anything about them having preferences for there food. Lets see I've tried f/t, live and thats REALLY supposed to stimulate an appetite right? That didn't work. I believe I haven't tried freshly killed, freshly killed and warm. The whole stunning them against a wall thing. Didn't I read that you do that Cat? I might be thinking of other people. Well, Cat as you can see I am just frustrated and don't know what else to run through to get her to eat??

An then I have non Herper people telling me when she stricked at it twice she was "testing her distances." Uhm and she probably wants more room to hunt, yet we know they like small spaces and security. She has room to move in her tub. Its a shallow 28 qt. rubbermaid. I'm really just buying another one from Target for one with a locking lid.

Lickity has me terribly confused. I can't tell what she wants. I WISH I could read her mind or even read her. Body language, actions. I feel extremely incompetent because she won't eat and I hate defeat, but I won't give up either. Gggrrrrrr.

The only other thing I can think I have had little access to is a baby Rat, or weanling. An in between size of the Adult Mice and full grown small Rats I've been trying to give her. Jeff is going to another Pet Store this Thursday to to look for those. I called them today and they said they had them, but I am worried about there competence. One Lady argued with me about a TherMOSTAT being stuck to the side of the tank. WUH? I didn't argue that she was talking about a stick on Thermometer not a ThermoSTAT.

I feel like she (Lickity) might be giving me small clues but I can't read them. Striking at the live Mice, then the next day ducking from one that got to close to her head. Following my tongs around the tank. Best one I don't understand is the chewing and biting of the Rats I gave her. It looked like she was eating a chicken leg, peeled the skin right off the Rats leg but didn't bother to eat it. Her temps and humidity are good. If I'm having husbandry issues they are minor small ones. I know I'm not off by a lot, you know all around. So should I go ahead and try a stunned Mouse then? Darn Imports.

 

[techgirl]

Kristen, I agree with Cat on that you need to weed out on whose advice you take. It is difficult I know, but with time you do learn which ones to take and which ones to ignore. But it does seem that you do ask repetitive questions and tend to not acknowledge advice that has been given. Take the 55 gallon tank, buy an appropiate sized UTH, get a temp control, and adjust the size of the tank to make it an appropiate size for her. You can always let her have more room as she grows. Now with 55 gallons you may need to compensate for humidity by covering the top with some towels or saran wrapping part of the top. That should help with future escapes provided it does have clamps on that fit accordingly.
As for spreading yourself out too thin. I believe that you are. I know you took the rescues out of the goodness of your heart, but there are times when you need to know when to say no. No matter how heartless it seems. I work with animals daily, I know the situation too well. I have a houseful of critters and a child and work full time. Is it crazy? YES! Do I regret what I have? No. I have learned to schedule chores and feedings without neglecting attention to my child or my pets. I moved most of my snakes to a rack because it did get crazy having tanks all over the house and it made my life alot easier with cleaning and keeping an eye on everyone. I still have some tanks but it has made a noticeable difference for me and therefore less stress for me.
I believe that you need to sit yourself down and think about your situation. Can you financially and physically care for your pets? I get the impression that finances are sometimes tight(I could be wrong) and also believe that you don't have a car. That can make it hard for you to get medical attention if needed that cannot wait.
As for your feeding situation, it is going to take time and persistence on that. I too have a male that will not eat, but is in good condition. They will eat when the time comes. Don't bother her too much, when you find her, leave her alone for a week and then try. If you do offer a stunned mouse or rat don't forget to monitor them. Just because they are stunned doesn't mean it's going to die. I have seen stunned feeders come out of it and then be aggressive. I suggest after you stun it, take a pencil or pen and place it behind their head and pull on the tail to separate the cervical vertebrae to kill them. It's cruel but it guarentees them dead if done right.
Now before you get/feel defensive, I am not an expert. I have asked my questions and had my fair share of problems. Thanks to alot of people here, I have a bunch of great animals and am looking forward to attempting my first hand at breeding my balls this year. I know with confidence that when the time comes, I can ask anyone here any questions and will get good advice. Will there be people that will get sarcastic with me or belittle me for not knowing? Maybe, but how a person acts about a situation results in how the situation turns out. To be defensive because someone belittles you is not the way to go. Kindness breeds kindness. Remember that. If someone calls you stupid, just smile and know in your heart that you know better. We here all wish to help BUT we do need to see that people are listening. If it's not being seen, then yes the frustation will come through. Examine yourself and your actions Kristen before you do it. Sometimes it takes that third, fourth, or even twentieth time that you sit down and think about it that you may understand why.
I know I normally don't offer much advice, but I have been reading this post and it's becoming too much like a schoolyard arguement of he said, she said.
Before this thread gets too out of hand with you having to defend yourself, think. I tend to see you try to come up with excuses as that you are young or don't have a car or don't have much help. When it's criticized then you agree that it's an excuse. Stop the excuses and accept that you have to make adjustments.
Sorry, hopefully I wasn't to preachy or redundant. Just wanted to give my $0.02 and hopefully see if you can see another angle on this situation.

 

[Seamus Haley]

Well I've had Lickity for six months and she was baby size when I bought her. Lickity is the one they said I could feed chicken legs to and I am NOT going to feed her those I was just asking why not.

Three main reasons. First, commercially bred chickens are basically bags of festering bacteria with some feathers on them. There's a genetic aspect to an immune system response; a species or population within a species will tend to have a genetic predisposition to not succumb to diseases that are commonly found in the area they evolved or commonly spread around their own population. The ones who die from it don't breed and over time the population can be exposed with less lethal results. Ball pythons haven't got any kind of natural resistance for the species and strains of bacteria carried by commercially raised chickens and can potentially get pretty sick. Secondly, every species that exists has evolved to take advantage of the nutrients found in their natural prey items. Ball pythons eat whole rodents as their primary prey item in the wild and while our domesticated rats and mice aren't the exact species the balls eat and are going to be slightly nutritionally different, the content will be *similar* where a chicken part would be signifigantly dissimilar. Third, again an evolutionary thing has to do with their digestive system- snakes (with one exception) swallow their prey whole without chewing. They have pretty minimal peristalisis (their stomach doesn't churn a whole lot to grind things up the way, for example, ours will) and prey is digested from the outside in. Certain tissues do not digest as well as others, harder tissues like bones and hair and teeth are the least digested when they are eliminated- take a look at your ball python and then picture a chicken wing bone stuck in the middle of it. Either it would remain whole and not be passed well or it would break and, because it's so much larger a bone that is present in a prey item of the ideal size, you'd have a jagged chunk of calcified tissue tearing your snake up from the inside.

So... not a good idea.

The person that said they feed their Ball Hamsters or Gerbils for variety didn't say anything about them having preferences for there food.

Snakes are all hardwired instinct. Stimulus -> response and they have no choice or free will in the matter. Their brain has a food shaped hole in it and, if they are being kept in conditions where a feeding response is possible, when they see something that fits it they will eat it. That food trigger has a lot of subtle things to it, shape, scent, color, the way something moves or doesn't move, temperature of the prey item... and the instinct to feed to begin with can be modified by ambient temperature, humidity, time of day, stress and how the prey is presented. Balls in the wild have seasonal prey avaliability- food isn't avaliable all year round, which is part of why they're built with an inclination to fast. When the temperature, humidity and light cycles are telling the ball python's body that food is scarce they shut down a bit, their body chamistry and caloric needs change and their behavioral instincts change right along with it. In captivity, ideally we want our animals to feed year round- it's easier for us to monitor their condition and it saves the effort of kick-starting the metabolism after a fasting period. The reason gerbils are preffered by the ball python is because they (and to be honest, a number of closely related little rodents) are a natural food item for the ball python. It mose closely fits that food instinct because they smell right, look right, move right. The reason they are not preffered by keepers is because they are more difficult to obtain and more expensive- a ball python can get "stuck" a little bit on food that fits the perfect instinctive trigger, if it's been getting gerbils then it's instincts are looking for more gerbils (and striped grass mice, and jumping... rats... and a bunch of other little brownish hopping rodents) and it may reject the mice if they are not presented in a manner that fits the trigger. Now, different people will argue that they will or will not get hooked on a food they find ideal; it all comes down to fitting those instincts though, so for some people they may have a ball that will take gerbils one week and mice the next because the feeding trigger is strong. Some may have their animals in conditions that provoke a slightly weaker feeding response (while still having a healthy animal in many cases) and they would want to avoid gerbils if their animal takes mice. It's a calculated risk, the reward being an animal more likely to eat and the downside being an animal that isn't eating what you want it to. Sometimes the trick is to find a middle ground- rub a prekilled mice in beeding used by gerbils for that scent, move the prekilled mouse in a way that stimulates the snake into thinking it's prey (note- not hitting it in the face over and over until it strikes defensively, this is NOT tease feeding), feed the snake in the dark after a period of darkness since they usually eat underground, make sure the mouse is warmer than the environment around it and that your hand on the other end of the togs is not... try a brown mouse before trying a gerbil... make sure to present the prey so that the head can be taken and that the head is warmer than the rest of the prey item, some artificual scents often produce strong results because they are strong smells- condensed chicken broth is a traditional favorite or braining is always an option if you've got a fresh prekilled rather than a f/t.

In your case however, based on what you have described with the enclosure, the environmental conditions, the escapes out of the environmental conditions and what I suspect is a tendency to poke the animal much more often than is good for it... the refusal to eat is likely stress indunced or a result of the environment being counter to that which promotes a strong feeding trigger. If you actually took the advice of anyone on these boards instead of asking for it and then arguing with or ignoring it, that might change.

Lets see I've tried f/t, live and thats REALLY supposed to stimulate an appetite right? That didn't work. I believe I haven't tried freshly killed, freshly killed and warm. The whole stunning them against a wall thing. Didn't I read that you do that Cat? I might be thinking of other people. Well, Cat as you can see I am just frustrated and don't know what else to run through to get her to eat??

None of that will do anything if the snake is not conditioned to eat to begin with.

An then I have non Herper people telling me when she stricked at it twice she was "testing her distances." Uhm and she probably wants more room to hunt, yet we know they like small spaces and security.

They are wrong, ignore them. In the wild balls will generally find themselves a nice rodent burrow, head down inside it, eat anything they find there and then hang out for awhile digesting it's former occupants. Wide open spaces and striking upwards into space at a prey item being dangled by it's tail (yeah... don't do that) aren't natural for them. Any strikes that are released quickly without at least an attempt to coil the first pice of the neck around it in that overlapping S are defensive strikes. You were just scaring the crap out of the animal and it was trying to scare you off.

Lickity has me terribly confused. I can't tell what she wants. I WISH I could read her mind or even read her. Body language, actions. I feel extremely incompetent because she won't eat and I hate defeat, but I won't give up either. Gggrrrrrr.

Which is why I am telling you to get rid of the animal. You aren't successful with it, you have problem after problem, after stupid, preventable problem and you blame each one on anything but yourself and then say that, even though the animals are obviously not getting appropriate care, you refuse to "give up" even if it means that they die because of your mistreatment. Hand them to someone that has experience, your death toll for the brief amount of time and small number of animals is staggeringly large and you seem incapable of understanding how and why you screwed up, or accepting the responsibility for making the bad decisions that created all these problems. Nobody else is sneaking into your house and stressing your ball python or molding up your cricket's food or opening enclosures- it's you. You decided to take these animals and keep them for your enjoyment but you're ducking the inherent responsibility that comes with that ownership.

I feel like she (Lickity) might be giving me small clues but I can't read them.

No argument here. She is and you can't.

Her temps and humidity are good. If I'm having husbandry issues they are minor small ones. I know I'm not off by a lot, you know all around.

You're clearly not in a position to make that determination. You have absolutely no idea if the conditions are ideal or not, you're oblivious to the idealness of the conditions, when it comes to ideal conditions- you wouldn't know them if they came up and bit you in the face.

Darn Imports.

That, those two words right there are the biggest problem people have with you and your crappy, ignorant practices. You go from mistake to mistake to mistake and it never seems to occur to you to think these things through to avoid ANY of them, then when they happen you immediately blame it on something else. Rubbermaid made a bad tub and it's their fault the animal got loose. The animal was from a pet store and you've decided to use that to blame your husbandry failures... wild caught ball pythons can be perfectly and immediately healthy in captivity if they end up in the hands of someone who knows what they're doing. Those instincts don't change because they were hatched out of a plastic tub instead of under some half rotted log, it's all ingrained and genetic preprogrammed responses. The stress your animal is experiencing is because it's being poked and harassed and handled by someone that has absolutely no idea what she's doing and it's being kept under god only knows what conditions, monitored by an incompetent that refuses to spend any money ensuring that it's all correct.

Your ball python's problem is NOT that it is (or may have been, you can't be trusted to make that call) wild caught. It's problem is that it's owner keeps screwing up good and hard and can't take care of it.

If you can't correct your methods, give the animal to someone who doesn't share them. Someone competent and someone responsible. Fix it.

 

[Leighanne]

Seamus first off let me Thank You for your explanation of Balls. I found that VERY interesting and informative. Those are the kinds of explanations I was looking for. I really do appreciate it.

Secondly, and no offense because I do understand. I think it was Gracemynote in the Gecko forum I did this to once. I could of SWORN she was picking at her Gecko. I don't know this for a fact though. I do believe at least I remember Clay telling me NOT to handle her. A man I have much respect for. You guys say I don't listen and OK I can understand why but I DO. I don't handle Lickity at all. I never held a live Mouse by its tail, just the f/t with a tong. I don't poke her, but I do lift the lid to check on her, her water and temps if I can't see the Acu Rite, which isn't often at all.

I'll make you a deal if you'll take it. If I don't succeed with her through half of Summer provided she stays up to weight I'll send Lickity away, but ONLY to you Seamus. Otherwise you are right, shes mine and I want to get this down. This is messing with my dreams. Snakes are what I want to do and I feel that if I can't get her down then what right do I have getting a Boa or the Burm I want someday, mind you I said someday because hopefully I'm not dying tommorrow.

She is my first Ball and that would be why I don't know as much as you but you have to learn. She doesn't have husbandry issues like you guys seem to think she does. I REALLY wish I had pictures to prove you all wrong. Her temps are good, humidity is good, the hides are good. I just have to stimulate that response and I WILL. I gotta tell you though I'm really sick of arguing with somebody as informed as you are. Thats ok though. I can handle the insults so long as your teaching with them. I am going to try feeding her tonight again. Care to tell me exactly what you would try and how. If I do it all to perfection and she still doesn't eat then maybe you'll see my problem.

ONE question though. This is were I could be messing up so I'm going to ask. Is it ok to try and feed different items within the same day? Last time I dangled an f/t adult Mouse in front of her and she didn't take then I put in a live one, no take. I figure I should separate different food within a few days instead of at the same time right? Tonight I'm going to try freshly killed and see where that gets me?

 

[Seamus Haley]

I'd give her four or five days inside an enclosure in a controlled environment with the absolute bare minimum of interaction- check her water and thermometer and call it a day. Then I would take a frozen thawed mouse, making sure it's dry and thoroughly thawed and heat the head up warmer than the body. Find one that's slightly smaller than you think would be a solid meal because, after not eating for more than a few weeks, enzyme production will have slowed down a bit and it's important to avoid a regurge (although still big enough to be struck and swallowed without dificulty) I'd, with the minimum amount of disturbing activity possible, open the enclosure with the light low or using a red bulb to see what I was doing. Grip the mouse just barely forward of the pelvis so that it's head and body are parallel to the bottom of the enclosure rather than perpendicular- making sure your hand is either fairly far away or covered with a glove so it's not screwing with the labial pits (incidentally, don't breathe into the enclosure and don't present your own very warm head or body closely enough to mess with her) and then I'd tease feed.

Tease feeding in this case means presenting the prey item so it can be struck at in a manner the animal would in nature- so barely off the floor of the enclosure. Move it like a gerbil... steady even motions until she's pathing after it about six-eight inches away from her, without touching her with the prey item. If she watches it for a long period of time without striking, try a few slightly jerkier hopping motions either away from her or from side to side. If she strikes be sure to get the tongs out of the way aw quickly as possible and do not jerk the mouse anymore- if you pull it back too hard and cause her to lose her grip, she may not nail it again if she's having a weak feeding response to begin with.

If that doesn't work, I'd take a brown paper lunch bag, put the mouse in it, put the snake in it, fold the top and crease it a few times and leave it in the secured enclosure overnight.

That'd be the first attempt. After making absolutely 100% certain that the environment is being correctly maintained. Too cold and they get lethargic and the metabolism slows, they won't eat or- if they do eat, won't digest. Too hot and they start to aestivate a little bit (similar to but kind of the opposite of brumation or hybernation- a period of minimal activity and topor when it's too hot or too dry to be active and healthy) and it completely changes their behaviors. Same goes for too dry, too wet, too stressed, too bright, insufficient hiding spots, insufficient thermal gradiant and any health problems that might be an irritant.

As to taking your ball python- I respect the sentiment. It's what I have been suggesting happen for awhile now given the errors and problems that have plagued your short attempts at keeping herps. That being said though, I would suggest someone a lot nicer and a lot more compassionate than I am. I frankly do not want a ball python, or I'd have some already. I'll stick with my candoia, d'alberts and chondros. They're all much, much prettier. Any balls I end up with get a fecal done, three or four meals in them and then handed off to someone that actually likes them.

 

[LadyOhh]

I'm sorry, Kristin, but Seamus is NOT the first one to tell you all of this.

Why is it that you listened to him over everyone else?

 

[darkbloodwyvern]

Hello,
just figured I'd point you to a site that IMO, is a good substitute if you can't afford a book.

http://www.anapsid.org/

If you need to give the snake away, I know a girl who does rescue and is very good with balls. I would aslo advise giving Lickety a good break, like Seamus said, five days or even a week with as little interaction as possible. As soon as you get her new tupperware home, transfer everything in and lock her up tight, check in once a day and change the water every two-three days and make sure the temps/humidity stay in the ideal range.
If you seach this forum, over and over people ask how to get their balls feeding again, and people suggest all kinds of methods that seem to help. read through everything and take notes, and follow seamus's advice and use a variety of prey items, but keep them around the same size, if the prey is bigger around than the snake, DON'T OFFER IT! too big of a prey item can stress them out, if they don't est it, they can be afraid of the huge rat, or if they do eat it, it will take much more energy to digest something that big and make cause regurgitation. When she does finally feed, leave her alone until she is eating regularily. if she will eat straight through a month, you may be able to start handling her a very short time, move super slowly and breathe normally. if you are stressed, she will sense it and become nervous. do ever touch her head or move fast when holding her. if she stops eating immediately stop handling her.

i would recommend getting books about your animals as soon as possible. Otherwise, anapsid.org is pretty good info. If someone's site has anything about microwaving prey items (not the water to heat them in, the actual mouse or rat), feeding "unconventional" prey items (hot dogs, chicken legs, kittens , things that do not resemble prey animals a snake can encounter in the wild), then do not take advice from them. People who do not hold the animal in a supportive way (dangling them by the tail, grabbing their head) or who do things like leave live prey in the cage with the snake overnight and doing irresponsible things with their pest and should not be listened to. You have to develop a BS-radar and be critical of those who are telling you to do weird things. It helps to search the forums here with some keywords and read up on past advice people have given. Generally the more experienced regulars like Cat and Seamus have spot on solutions to common problems. All you have to do is write down some notes and study the information and ask here if you have questions about anything. But you alos have to listen to the advice. Few people here will steer you wrong, and usually someone will jump in to correct any mistakes that someone may tell you.

People can get snappy because they do have to rescue people's abused pets, or deal with unethical breeders. I myself have asked some dumb questions and gotten answers that were more harsh than necessary, but I got an answer by asking for as much detail as possible. I don't take it personally, i do what the experienced breeder with healthy snakes advise me to do. You DO have to ask why, people don't always think to tell you why not to feed chicken legs because for many snake owners, being told not to by someone who is in the know is enough.
anyways, sorry for rambling, but i hope the site is helpful for you. Study it well and it will hopefully give you some god insights.

 

[hhmoore]

MK

 

[Leighanne]

whats mk mean?

 

[garweft]

MK is the initials of the person who runs the site listed above by darkbloodwyvern.

The "author" of that site is a person who seems to think that no one but her knows how to care for reptiles. Meanwhile she always seems to provide wrong info on things that she claims to be an expert on. She is against pretty much everything about the reptile pet trade, including captive breeding. She is really just an animal rights activist in a poor disguise. Do yourself a favor, skip her site and buy The Ball Python Manual. It is only around $10 and has a good bit of useful information in it. If you must use a website stick to a respected breeder like NERD, Mike Wilbanks, or the Barkers.

 

[Leighanne]

I tried feeding again tonite. I did exactly like Seamus said and nothing but since its f/t I'll leave it in there over night as I usually do. I HAVE done everything people have suggested...just about. I didn't know about Seamus's paper bag trick and will try that in a few days. I tried splitting the Mouse open tonite, nothing. Because shes not eating does that mean she has a weak feeding response. I think she does at least right now. She used to eat for me all the time? I've tried scenting, at dark always. ????? An yeah I've already read that site. ??????

 

[Leighanne]

http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20257

So are there any more chats with this guy?

 

[Dennis Hultman]

I tried feeding again tonite. I did exactly like Seamus said and nothing but since its f/t I'll leave it in there over night as I usually do. I HAVE done everything people have suggested...just about. I didn't know about Seamus's paper bag trick and will try that in a few days. I tried splitting the Mouse open tonite, nothing. Because shes not eating does that mean she has a weak feeding response. I think she does at least right now. She used to eat for me all the time? I've tried scenting, at dark always. ????? An yeah I've already read that site. ??????

No, you didn't.

 

[Dennis Hultman]

Kristin, You couldn't even get through the first sentence.

 

[Leighanne]

New plan. Putting her in my 15 qt. tub tommorrow with folded newpaper on the bottom, a few crunched up pieces of newspaper, her water bowl, no hides and a towel covering her smaller tub, so she can't see the outside. What do you think?

 

[Leighanne]

Dennis I meant I didn't get her to eat but left the f/t in there and will remove in the morning. I work early.