• Responding to email notices you receive.
    **************************************************
    In short, DON'T! Email notices are to ONLY alert you of a reply to your private message or your ad on this site. Replying to the email just wastes your time as it goes NOWHERE, and probably pisses off the person you thought you replied to when they think you just ignored them. So instead of complaining to me about your messages not being replied to from this site via email, please READ that email notice that plainly states what you need to do in order to reply to who you are trying to converse with.

  • IMPORTANT! PLEASE READ!! About the Google Adsense ads being displayed

    =====================
    Posted 08/15/2025
    =====================


    Yeah, I know. They are a pain in the butt. But they pay the bills to keep my server running. Just a fact of life, I am afraid.

    Want to get rid of them? Simple. Just become a Contributor level member or above and they will be gone. -> Please click HERE."

    Is that too much for me to ask of you to keep this site running? Well, sorry about that. I too wish I could get everything for free. But alas.....

    =====================
    Addendum: 01/10/2026
    =====================


    Google Adsense ad revenue for December, 2025 was just $30 over the cost of the lease for the server running this site. So, in effect, the money providing the incentive for me to continue running this site is coming SOLELY from the paid memberships and sponsorships here. Which honestly ain't much....

What would you do if you got sent IBD?

First it would be interesting to know from Bill himself if he knew the snakes were sick (not necessarily IBD). It SEEMS likely as he agreed to send two other snakes from his own collection upon request. Second it would be interesting to know if he told Chris about it. If he did tell him, it would be interesting to know if Chris accepted them anyways because "the price was right". As for the quarantine it seems that it didn't take place at all. I guess we are stuck with just one bell ringing here.

Daniel
 
Just So everyone will know, I post as Chris on Kingsnake.com and I know at least one other person who is not Chris H. does also. So, some of you may be mistaken on who's posts your reading on Kingsnake.com. In fact I almost registered as Chris H. as My name is Chris Hayes but saw his username just before I registered.
 
WAIT! He lies too. He claims Bill Cagle uses other peoples names when signing posts. One of these names he said Bill signed himself as, has been a very good friend of mine for 8 years. Her name is Lisa. I know for a fact that this is a lie. Lisa has been sitting back reading all the crap this kid is saying and has posted absolutely NOTHING.You can read my comment to this Chris ( oh wow, maybe he's more like Sybil!)person on the KS forum. I don't think he'd be happy if God himself came down and gave him his perfect creation!
 
Just curious, but when did they start being able to identify Inclusion Body Disease by doing a fecal exam or a mouth swab? Last I knew the only way to tell if the snake was positive was a necropsy and checking the kidneys & liver. True the snakes may be sick, but I would get a second opinion on the results. If they are in fact sick with IBD, euthanize them now! Do the responsible thing and don't pawn them off on anyone else to further spread this infection around. IBD has become the number one witch hunt and many sick snakes that have been misdiagnosed have been euthanized for now reason. If your really curious by pass your vet and find the center for disease control (animal division) and have them do a necropsy. Good luck!


Tribal Propagation:
Brian & Laura
1255 Saratoga Lane
Geneva FL 32732
407-349-2824
 
As for IBD, no, there isn't any test for when the animal is alive! I asked the same to PARC and I got this as a reply mail.

There is no definitive blood test for IBD. Sometimes you can see inclusions in red blood cells that are associated with IBD, but not diagnostic of IBD. Inclusions can be caused by other things, and the red cell inclusions are not manufacturing centers of virus. So...... definitive diagnosis of IBD remains a diagnosis made only by tissue biopsy. Inclusions are best found in biopsies of the sophageal tonsil, liver, kideny, or digestive sytsem. Biopsies can be obtained pre-mortem by endoscopy. Charles Innis, VMD


And here's a link for more,
VetMed IBD
 
What would I do?
since this has allready passed, and Chris will have by now taken the snake to get a necropsey done on it to confirm I.B.D.i will adress it from that point out.



CHRIS,


I would get rid of all the snakes in your collection that you currently have.  I would EUTHANIZE the two replacement snakes you got from Bill Cagle from his"private collection"

I would discard food bowls, cages, utensild or heat pads/racks.
In short I would gut your collection and start all over about 5 months from now.
I am NOT saying this to be vindictive, that is what I would do.

And I would buy boas in the future from ONLY known breeders who live close enough so that you can visit andsee their snakes and the care they take of them.  Failing that, a reputable outlett or person, like Peter Watson, Pro Exotics, or Matt Turner would be MY choice for boas.

                                 fred
 
THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!! GREAT POST FRED!
I have been saying that, but I was "overreacting", "paranoid", "have no knowledge".
I could not have said it better myself.
Thank you Fred.
Brian Oakley
 
Come on people you are making me feel real old hear. IBD was identified in the 70's and has probably been around for 100's of years. It was a major concern in the mid 80's to python breeders. A boa can carry the decease for its whole life without showing any symptoms. But a python once exposed has little time. As a cheap test you can house a Ball Python with a boa 30 days and if IBD is present you will have a dead Ball Python . The virus is shed during stress, and the housing them together will provide that. Also the test procedure is a liver biopsy and can be done on a live animal for about $110 and involves to 2 ventral scales, 2 stitches and a small sample for the lab. Please study the animals in which you want to keep or breed and be aware of the risks involved with every purchase.  Lets come together and help each other and provide homes and life, for the animals who's habitats we destroy.
 
CFBR,
   You have my attention.  And I hope some others.
You need to include your full name with your post or it will be deleted.  Can you tell me where to research this topic??
Thanks,
     Tom
 
The reference material that everyone is looking at is 1985, we have made some advances in the last 17 years. Sure we do not have the vaccine but we do have the test. My Vet charges $110 and it takes about 2 weeks for results. I have been lucky so far and try to buy my Boas from people who also have pythons.
 
This is a copy of an e-mail I got from CFRB

Quote-Eddie,
Not to be an ass but the paper you are using as reference is
is 1985. We have come a long way in 17 years if you need a vet to do a liver biopsy just call a good reptile vet.
Chuck

When I asked about newer material, this is the reply I recieved


Quote-Its a live check call your Vet.
Chcuk


I called my vets, they said there isn't a 'conclusive ' live test,
Probably won't be for a number of years and if you trust your vet to make a biopsy of a living snakes liver or otherwise, then you are going to wind up with mis-information, a dead snake and scammed by your vet.
The only 'conclusive' test that ANY of the vets in my area are aware of is a post mortem biopsy, and trust me, we got some vets here that are great, young and fresh out of school at the emergency hospital.

So once again, I ask you here and not by e-mail,where can we ALL find the info, or can we get the # or e-mail, for your vet so that we CAN learn more of this 100% incureable, 100% mortality
rate disease?<img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'>
 
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I have been lucky so far and try to buy my Boas from people who also have pythons.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

Wouldn't it make sense that if the breeders you go to are following the proper quarentine procedures to begin with, that it shouldn't matter what else they keep, breed, sell, give away, trade or other?

In other words, it wouldn't make a difference whether they have pythons or not.

Then again, you gots to be very trusting to go with their word on whether or not they lost any pythons to IBD, they are in for $$$, not for the sake of the animals, hence the massive need for rescues.
 
I feel for Chris in this situation,even though he didn't follow correct Quarentine procedures. The fact remains he was sent poor sick animals. Chris has gone through alot of stress time & money throught this ordeal & will be stressed out about if for many months to come to see if any of his other animals were infected (even though bad husbandry would be only reason this could happen). The last time the seller of the IBD animals in question here had a problem on BOI he came to defend himself. Where is he at now? I see still selling snakes.
Just my thoughts on the situation.
Chris Pearson
 
Hey Chris,
       Have you contacted Bill Cagle since you found out for sure that it is IBD?<img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt='???'>?<img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt='???'>??  And if so what did he say???
   Tom
 
I need some questions answered

What date did you receive the snakes.

What date did bill send you a replacement.

What date did you take it to the vet.

What date did it die.

What date did bill send you more snakes.

What date did you take it back to the vet

I need a step by step date thing.
 
I will have to think about that....for the most part with in one month...I'll get back on all the dates
 
As far as IBD, Our collection was hit with it about a year ago or more........we had purchased 2 large RTBs from a local guy who had got them as a rescue.  We needed large good looking snakes for a fair display we were doing over the summer.  We unfortunately weren't concnerned with a quarantee because we had ASSUMED that the snakes were healthy.  Well, for the display we housed them with a smaller 1 year old boa, a large rescue we had (no tail and a REALLY bad scar on his back) and a ground boa.  Unfortunately, 3 months later, the ground boa passed away, then the baby went......at that point, we weren't even going to wait for the vets necropsy, so we froze ALL boas we had.  discarded the cages and everything that had ever come in contact with the boas....probes, hemos, etc.  It was a painful experience but we weren't relying on those animals to breed for us....they were, like I said, either used for displays, rescues, or my own personal pets.  It WAS a great emotional loss for me, but so as to not spread this disease any further, we rid ourselves of any threats of it.  If those things had happened to breed, and we still weren't sure of their health, we MAY have sold the babies not knowing what we were doing....of course, if we had planned on breeding the boas, we would've had a necropsy done on the 2 dead snakes, just to make sure.

Now, I'm not totally positive that it was IBD, but all the symptoms were there in the 2 dead snakes.......If we do ever decide to get back into boas, we're prepared for it.
 
There where much more in depth posts about this "live" test for IBD so I thought since sooo many people are viewing this story that I would re-post this information here.

The closest test that can be performed on a live animal for IBD is a tissue biopsy. Taking a liver biopsy which in and of itself unless done by a VERY experienced vet can cause early death of the snake (due to numerous factors such as anesthesia, liver not functioning well and other pre-existing health issues). It is an obviously invasive and $$$expensive test. As for mouth swabs and blood test there is absolutely NO 100% test for IBD other than post-mortem necropsy. Even the liver biopsy is NOT 100% simply because only a very small sample is taken from the liver and there may not be inclusions in that particular part of the liver especially if it is a very early onset case of IBD. Unfortunately the only other way to test live animals for IBD use to be done years ago and most consider it appauling. Yep the old ball python test :^( Since ball pythons seem to be extremely susceptible to IBD then tend to die rapidly after being exposed to IBD i.e. within a month or so after exposure. Breeders use to keep ball pythons to test for IBD, I'm pretty sure it is no longer done and I hope that mentioning this won't rekindle this practice simply because they are also living animals and not a test. Not to mention that even if trying this method the dead ball python would still need to be tested for IBD so its not really a viable method. Anyway just wanted to get some more veterinary based information out there. As for how common this disease is <img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt='???'>? Your guess is as good as everyone elses, until we get a 100% viable living specimen test we will never know how common it is. Boa Constrictors do appear to be able to survive as carriers of this disease so like I said until a living test is found we will never know how common it is. What does this mean to everyone..very simple
RELIGIOUSLY practice 2 things !!!
#1 Extensive QUARANTINE procedures and
#2 Extensive almost STERILE cleaning and handling procedures within your collections !!!

There you go.
Just more information for everyone out there from the veterinary field.
 
Back
Top