whats a good snake

[xXBlueLipsXx]

EmeraldBoid ohh okz and its fine just think its a beautiful snake really, and did not know they were mellow, most baby ones I see are never held but are on a climbing pearch when there handled (not to big on using a climbing pearch to hold my snake e.e) i'm just saying with many people I have talked to or have seen forsale are never handled like you handle yours as you just showed me v.v. Just didnt know they were naturally mellow most people just give them bad reviews (probably because they never touch them and use them as display snakes only) just didnt know, my bad Dx

 

[hhmoore]

Snakes have personalities? I consider that term to be a human factor...you know, having to do with persons.
On the subject of temperament, however, luck can be a component... but I feel that a keeper's understanding, knowledge, patience, attitude, approach, etc are more important. I've kept a number of "aggressive" species. Sometimes I got lucky, and they were fairly tractable from the start. Most of the time, though, it was a matter of my understanding how to work with them that improved their temperament. I've had a bunch of nasty, bitey snakes that became very deliberate and "trustworthy". Some maintained that with other people, as long as their approach was good; others seemed more discerning, and displayed markedly different temperaments with different people.
I've never kept gtps, but I've kept etbs and atbs. I don't consider them snakes that tolerate handling for extended periods; but they're predictable enough to allow for short sessions if one is observant.

 

[xXBlueLipsXx]

ah ok thanks hhmoore

 

[Pmsayi]

Snakes (much like people and other animals) do have temperament and character traits that can vary between species as well as individuals within any given species. In general some species are considered more high strung or aggressive than others. This may not be the case with all examples within a given species but can be followed as a sort of "rule of thumb" when recommending snakes to individuals of different skill sets. The experience and comfort level of the keeper can go a long way towards pleasant interactions with species normally considered aggressive or flighty.

Snakes and other animals are highly sensitive to pheromones released by their keepers as well as others around them or interacting with them. A nervous, scared, unsure, or aggressive person may illicit a completely different response than a person who is comfortable, confident, non aggressive and experienced. Regardless of the normal tendency of the species these factors may come into play. Individual snakes within any species may exhibit characteristics and temperaments outside of normal parameters, identifying individual snakes that are more "laid back" and tolerant takes time and experience with the individual snake. As far as temperament in general terms "luck" is most certainly a factor when selecting any snake. I have seen captive bred corn snakes that will bite for no perceivable reason and caught a wild racer that was quite tractable never once attempting to bite or musk. Breeding for temperament in reptiles is still in its infancy though I suspect it is quite possible through selective breeding to produce "good temperament" lines of species that are normally aggressive. It has also been noted in some reptiles that incubation temperatures can have an affect on temperament. This has actually been quite well documented in leopard geckos and bearded dragons. It is also worth noting that what one may mistakenly consider a laid back individual of a normally aggressive species may in fact simply be "cool" (below ideal body temperature so seemingly placid) at the time of handling. I have seen normally aggressive species such as yellow anacondas and rock pythons seem tractable when cool but once having reached ideal body temperature revert back towards behavior more commonly associated with those species.

As far as recommending species for inexperienced keepers; some species are overall more tolerant of the frequent and longer handling sessions less mature keepers tend to desire to do. Some species are also more tolerant of the husbandry mistakes that will come along with simply being inexperienced. For me these are my primary considerations when recommending snakes to beginners. That is not to say all beginners are incapable of keeping more difficult snakes. The idea is to foster success and pleasant interaction not frustration. That aside, there is no luck with regards to husbandry. There is research and implementation.

 

[xXBlueLipsXx]

Pmsayi thank you that helps me out a lot I know what you mean really ^^. its like someone randomly recommending me to a blue beauty rat snake (think someone did here, idk for sure) yet I did research on them in the past and they are NOT recommended for beginners due to there behavior and aggressiveness that comes with this species of rat snake's

 

[hhmoore]

The blue beauty suggestion came after you dismissed earlier suggestions as not exotic enough, or not big enough; and you had said you liked a challenge. Realistically, they aren't a worse option than a GTP or ETB for a beginner; just a different one.
Admittedly, I have a history with, and fondness for, aggressive species; so I'm less likely to consider such a reputation a big deterrent...but I avoided those recommendations until you had pretty much exhausted the options I felt were more beginner friendly.
As I suggested earlier, as a novice in the hobby, you would probably have a better experience with a more "common" species that has less complicated husbandry requirements; but, I'm also generally inclined to advise people to pursue their interests, as long as they make an informed decision with due consideration to reality. If an ETB is the snake you want - learn about them. If the temperament and husbandry requirements fall into your acceptable range, and if - after realistically looking at what will be happening in your life for the next 10 years - you still think this is a reasonable option FOR YOU....go for it

 

[xXBlueLipsXx]

hhmoore I thought blue beautys were just as aggressive as GTP and ETB o.o read about them in the past dismissed them because of how many articles and information I have read about them saying there a display animal only and are aggressive, also they dont out grow that aggressive behivor no matter how much handling you try to give them. only reason why I truely dismissed the VBB's. most of that I have set on now for a good first snake is a carpet python as my first choice (researching them and what not and how when there adults they calm down, and are quiet easy feeders, along with there husbandry requirements that are not too difficult at all to keep and seem quiet easy really and I could probably do more with it then a VBB due to the carpets temperment)

 

[hhmoore]

they dont out grow that aggressive behivor no matter how much handling you try to give them.

IMO, there is a problem with the above statement.
(The following is a general statement - not specific to VBBs....it is also my opinion, based upon my experiences. Other experiences may vary, due to many factors; but the following theory/approach has served me well).

When dealing with a snake that doesn't like being handled, my feeling is that less is more. Handling = stress. More handling = more stress. Minimize handling until the snake accepts it better. Remember you aren't "giving them" handling...you are forcing it on them. Sometimes getting them to tolerate your presence is the first step, if they react strongly whenever you open the enclosure. Get them accustomed to nonthreatening touch before jumping to picking them up. Simple handling during husbandry - quick and easy. Understanding the snake is key - learn to read them. Sometimes it is simply better to recognize that now is not a good time. (Sometimes you have to suck it up and take the bite, too, lol).
Understand that some snakes just don't want to be disturbed, and others are movers that don't want to be restrained. (Actually, restraining tends to freak snakes out, which is understandable - I used to demonstrate that in presentations with afrocks and retics.)




Carpets are very motion and touch sensitive, especially when young. This comes into play for both feeding and defense. Their reputation is "nippy" rather than "aggressive"; and babies are prone to biting. It's a relatively short phase; so don't let that statement bother you. There are a lot of carpet fans around that will probably offer thoughts, insights, and advice as you proceed.

 

[xXBlueLipsXx]

oh my bad, I thought it was a known fact for VBB's dont outgrow aggressiveness and dont make great snakes to handle, didnt know that lol. (dont mind taking a bite really lol) dont mind nippy babies either as long as they will eventually out grow that stage.

I'm highly considering buying a Carpet python, on this site ^^ (many friendly people on here and there easier to find on here, then at a reptile expo) ... also do you know the sub species of carpets Because I was thinking of a queensland or a coastal carpet's (cant find any picture of the two sub species of carpets :/ all that displays are just carpet pythons in general and it doesnt say what it is. if its a iran, coastal etc...)

 

[EmeraldBoid]

Approaching any animal calmly of course has an effect on his behavior toward you; however, there is a lot more to it than just avoiding the release of adrenaline. When I handle a new snake I keep eye contact to a minimum (too much eye contact is a sign of a predator in nature) and if arboreal, I will pull out the branch with the snake already perched/if terrestrial I will pick up the snake with both hands and calmly sit on the floor. Once the snake is actually out I will give him or her plenty of freedom, which usually involves arboreals gliding across my shoulder and terrestrials exploring about a 4 ft radius out from me. Soon they are used to this and I can take them outside for pictures or they will sit on my shoulder while I work. Animals that display a lot of nervousness in the first session are pet inside the cage for a few weeks, I will reach in the cage to change the water bowl and simply rub the snake for a few minutes. This has worked for me, there are a lot of other methods though if you want to explore...some people still swear by the t-shirt trick (put a t shirt with your smell on it in the cage). As you get more experience you will start having your own methods and instincts, just do not be afraid of a bite and you will be fine in the handeling area.

 

[EmeraldBoid]

oh my bad, I thought it was a known fact for VBB's dont outgrow aggressiveness and dont make great snakes to handle, didnt know that lol. (dont mind taking a bite really lol) dont mind nippy babies either as long as they will eventually out grow that stage.

I'm highly considering buying a Carpet python, on this site ^^ (many friendly people on here and there easier to find on here, then at a reptile expo) ... also do you know the sub species of carpets Because I was thinking of a queensland or a coastal carpet's (cant find any picture of the two sub species of carpets :/ all that displays are just carpet pythons in general and it doesnt say what it is. if its a iran, coastal etc...)

Quick pics of my younger coastals.

 

[hhmoore]

oh my bad, I thought it was a known fact for VBB's dont outgrow aggressiveness and dont make great snakes to handle

I didn't say VBBs outgrew anything, or that they made great snakes to handle. I suggested that trying to force the snake to tolerate what you want isn't the best approach. VBBs are active snakes, and they are unlikely to become calm shoulder sitters...that's part of understanding the snake.

I'm highly considering buying a Carpet python, on this site ^^ (many friendly people on here and there easier to find on here, then at a reptile expo) ... also do you know the sub species of carpets Because I was thinking of a queensland or a coastal carpet's (cant find any picture of the two sub species of carpets :/ all that displays are just carpet pythons in general and it doesnt say what it is. if its a iran, coastal etc...)

There are more than two subspecies; and there has been a lot (too much) mixing of carpets; so finding "pure" jungles, coastals, etc isn't as easy as it was 15 yrs ago. M.s. mcdowelli are coastals; jungles are M.s.cheynii; Irian Jayas are...hmmmm, not coming to me at the moment (I want to say they were renamed, but used to be part of variegata?)

 

[EmeraldBoid]

I didn't say VBBs outgrew anything, or that they made great snakes to handle. I suggested that trying to force the snake to tolerate what you want isn't the best approach. VBBs are active snakes, and they are unlikely to become calm shoulder sitters...that's part of understanding the snake.


There has been a lot (too much) mixing of carpets; so finding "pure" jungles, coastals, etc isn't as easy as it was 15 yrs ago. M.s. mcdowelli are coastals; jungles are M.s.cheynii; Irian Jayas are...hmmmm, not coming to me at the moment (I want to say they were renamed, but used to be part of variegata?)

In case Google throws anything nuts M.s. = Morelia spilota, very interesting species complex.

 

[xXBlueLipsXx]

EmeraldBoid I would go with what you have about the petting in the cage thing for a while till its use to it ^^ sounds like an easy method, along with the t-shirt method. BEAUTIFUL young carpets between and yes google throws anything really :/ one time I googled a VBB and what poped up where pictures of a cave dwelling rat snake ._. i was like what the hey! lol

hhmoore I didnt mean you were saying that stuff about the VBB I ment when I did my research online about the species that I considered at one time before I ever posted this topic here. that through me reading about them in articles of people handling with them and who actually own them have said they arnt the handling type, arnt for beginners, and are bitty little buggers. thats why I dismissed it because of it lol I didnt say that you said that Dx sorry if you thought that. and I know there are more then 2 sub species for carpets: http://www.rainforest-reptiles.co.uk/morelia.php

 

[hhmoore]

I just wanted to make sure you weren't somehow inferring that from what I'd previously posted.
I'll also take this opportunity to remind you of a comment I made about bloods, which also applies to many other species - a lot of these "reputations" came from the days in which most of our options were WC/imports. A couple generations of captive breeding works wonders for the innate aggression shown by the snakes we worked with years ago.

 

[demonseed38]

Dude. All snakes are awesome. It depends on what's right for you. I'm a drymarchon guy with non venomous and hots, pygmy rattlesnakes are my favorites. They can be tamed and held but I do suggest taking diluted venom injections to build up your immunity. But use thick welding gloves to get them used to handling and they are cool. As for drymarchon. They are high strung snakes but with some frequency in handling and taming they are super smart and make some super cool pets. Just my opinion to whether you wanna test your herp skills

 

[xXBlueLipsXx]

hhmoore ohh ok ^^ makes sense

wickedpayara thats cool but I am NOT getting a venomous snake nor taking shorts to build up immunity to there bites e.e I HATE needles a lot... I think there beautiful but no thanks to the venomous snakes lol

 

[demonseed38]

Ok. You Prolly like some smaller breed of python then. They tend to be calmer and more laid back.

 

[hhmoore]

It helps to actually read a bit before jumping into a 100+ post discussion thread

 

[j_dunlavy]

It helps to actually read a bit before jumping into a 100+ post discussion thread

...pygmy rattlesnakes are my favorites. They can be tamed and held but I do suggest taking diluted venom injections to build up your immunity. But use thick welding gloves to get them used to handling and they are cool. Just my opinion to whether you wanna test your herp skills

IDK how the venomous community would feel about these sorts of activities.
Honestly it seems like an accident in the making and sounds quite irresponsible, IMO.