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What's up with the web?

Dachiu

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I’m not too sure what forum this would best fit into - Kind of sounding off - but it is directly related to on-line business.
Please do NOT take offense to anything here... I am not poking fingers at anyone in particular.

I have been looking closely on-line at some of the web sites that we have reciprocal links with and others that are possible contacts for future links - and have noticed an incline of decreasing quality. Some sites are simply put together very poorly, some sites look nice but are horrible to navigate, while others are aesthetically designed and easy to navigate - but it looks like a child wrote the HTML.

Many new sites are first attempts by an individual to develop their presence on-line - and this is understandable. Who wants to pay another person to design a site when many ISP’s offer free web building tools for their users? They go ahead and play with it a while - fine-tune it to their abilities - and see what happens. These sites are pretty easy to pick out at first and as the owner gains abilities, the web site develops. Kudos to them…

My concern is that more and more you’ll see “Web Design by So-n-So” at the bottom of the pages - So-n-So, one would assume, is supposed to know what they are doing. Now, ’I've seen some sites that are really crappy and also sites that look really cool with flash and other extras that “designers” have put together for people - that don’t have a child’s prayer of ranking anywhere in a search engine.

This may be acceptable for the hobby breeder who only occasionally has items available for sale. But I’m now noticing this more frequently on (reptile related) business web sites. Is it that we in general, as business owners in this industry, do not know what to look for in our web design? Or to ask of the designer? Are we really easy targets with an extra several hundred dollars to just hand out to anyone who can buy a program and put a web site together?

For instance at the top of this page it reads “Fauna Classifieds” - Such-n-Such Forum. For each different forum you visit here, the title of the page changes - the way it *should* be. On an un-named site I was looking at earlier today - there was NO title. None, nada, zip… On another, the title of every page within the site was the same - XYZ Reptiles. Something is better than nothing, but redundancy is not of much help either.

Or am I just expecting entirely too much from people? A friend was actually told “I don’t do that.” when she asked about simple HTML dynamics that were missing from a web site she paid a “designer” to create. They created a web site design for her sure; but the ‘bugger’ took the money and ran!

There is SO much more to a web site than pretty, little graphics that bounce all over the page and mouse-overs. Go ahead and Google “leopard gecko” for instance. Now Google “leopard gecko breeder”. Google’s “Lizard” directory is listed there above many well known breeders. Why?

I believe it’s because many of these web sites are built for catering to the user only - completely ignoring the search engine requirements. Web designers know that to build a successful web site, they have to cover all of the bases… yet they don’t. Is this a case of ‘what you don’t know, wont hurt you - and when you finally figure it out Ill be long gone’? Or do they not realize this themselves?

The fact is that if there is no traffic to your web site - where can you expect the sales to come from? They cannot be pulled out of thin air and your friends only need so many pets. If people don’t know you’re out there - and can only find you through posts on forums or by running a search for your name - you are pretty much invisible.

In addition, I see many (seemingly honest) people who’s business would benefit with a web site - but they have not taken that step. Why not?
Business is business and if you are wanting to do business on-line - then you have to find a way to make your presence known.

I apologize now if this seems more like a rant - but I suppose my questions are born of frustration.

V.
 
First off...Excellent post!

Allow me to address just one of your statements:

In addition, I see many (seemingly honest) people who’s business would benefit with a web site - but they have not taken that step. Why not?

In MHO it's because word of mouth it's still one of the more powerful means of communication. One example that comes to mind: Mark and Kim Bell (Reptile Industries). Recognized by the industry and their peers by the quality of their animals and superior service. You will not find a crappy page about them...you will not find a web page, period. You will be even hard pressed to fing their telephone number or e-mail around and still they are considered among the best. You can have all the bells and whistles you want but at the end it boils down to: "are you customer oriented or are you sales oriented"?

Kindly :)

Dan
 
I agree Dan. Referrals/word of mouth happen to be the absolute best advertising. We do alot of our business through happy past customers.

But if I were interested in say, a gecko, and new to the on-line reptile community and uncomfortable posting what I may consider silly questions - I would go by search results... assuming those listed at the top are exactly that - at the top of their game. When in fact I should be I heading straight for KelliH.

My question for a situation like this is - is there a particular reason that a company with an awesome reputation like Mark/Kim (or another of their caliber) would avoid having a web site? Too much of a hassle? Or is that something that just hasn't been addressed yet?

V.
 
I think a lot of individuals use the freebie templates by Google, GoDaddy and others because they do not want to spend the money required for a designer to create their site. Usually when I find one of these sites, I turn away. I feel that if you don't present yourself professionally online via your website, how can I trust that your stock isn't as low grade?

What I really get a chuckle from is claimed designers having a Geocities website to advertise their skills. I mean, come on...Domain registration and web hosting can cost no more then $150/year depending on whom you go through...That is ridiculous.

I, as a designer will not include all the "bells and whistles" on a site unless I'm getting paid for it. The hours it takes to program usually cost me more then someone is willing to pay. I sometimes do farm out programming to a very good friend of mine who is much faster then me at it and can do a lot more then I (Example: www.leopardgeckoregistry.com - Steven is doing all the fun stuff for this one).

Their also is definitly a difference between a Designer and a Programmer. Designers make it look pretty, Programmers make the "bells and whistles" function. :)

What should you look for when preparing to drop money on a website? Someone that is capable of making a visually pleasing website and can provide (either by themselves or have a partner to do the nitty gritty work) all the "bells and whistles" that are desired.

Neither of my sites (reptile or design) have any crazy graphics or flash. Why? Well, I consider the fact that some individuals have dial up, so anything too large they would get tired of waiting and will leave my site. I will eventually provide an option for web surfers to choose Flash and non-Flash before going onto either of my sites. Until I have the time to design and program flash sites for both, I am content providing what I am.
 
I also wanted to add, you need to consider that a Designer doesn't have the final say as to what is presented in the end. It is about the client and what the client wants. If the client wants the "bells and whistles" they have to pay for it and their designer should provide them with such. If they want a boring drab website or other design job, their designer should provide just that.

I have had the displeasure of having to put together some really poor ads for the biker magazine I was working for because that's what the client wanted. What do I do in situtations like that? I don't put my name on the work. It doesn't go into my portfolio.

I do my best to suggest and recommend things. Sometimes the clients go with it, other times they don't. :)
 
As someone who has created their own web presence, I feel I must place my input into this thread.

I started out with templates provided to me by my web host. The simple reason was the lack of HTML knowledge and insufficient funds to hire a professional designer to build it from the ground up. Over some time I have changed a few things to our site and tried to "spiffy it up" as I accumulate a better understanding of the language.

Now, to the point. :hehe:
Some of us do the best within their abilities to provide a fully functional and aesthetically pleasing experience to those who wish to peruse our site but do not have the free time necessary to master the craft. Myself, having a full time job as well as caring for all of the animals(which might as well be another full time job), find that what little free time is available to me is better spent trying do something fun rather than doing something "work" related.

I do share some other's pet peeve about geocities sites and the like where it would seem that the person/s in question just didn't give a flip about how their business looks to the on-line public.
 
Matt,
I agree. Your site is one of the ones that has developed over the last year and you are doing a great job with it. Every time you learn or think of something new - you make a change, and its to the better. The more you fiddle with it, the more you will figure it out. That is exactly how our site evolved. I'm not knocking the people who create their own sites at all - it would be like beating myself on the head with a board!
 
So i have to ask the question, what kind of bells and whistles are we talking about? Far from flash which is imo a waste of bandwidth, there aren't many trinkets you can use on an informational/e-commerce type of site. You could always go full out e-comm and add shopping carts and the like but really, what is there to offer that would actually make someone say "wow, am i glad they added this to their site!"?
 
I would love to have a professional website done for me, but when I was looking at the prices I could never afford anything like that. I spent 3 months calling different places, and the cheapest quote I got was $900 to set up the page and then $95 a month, not even including credit card processing. I use citymax now, which is very simple for me to use. My business is more of an extra income source while I'm in college. I would love for it to become bigger, but I don't have that great amount of money to invest at this time. So it is what it is.
 
There is actually a lot of stuff that can be added to a web site - You can add a flash intro (with an opt out), multiple java scripts for banners and menu items, php, members only areas for discounts and such... There are photo gallery programs, bulletin boards, content management selections... All of this stuff is fun for the visitor. But all of this is a lot of work and will in turn bump the overall price.

The point I was trying to make is that even with some (or all) of this on your web site - it just looks pretty. A person may bookmark the web site and return in the future - BUT they still have to find you first.
It seems that many of the newer 'designers' are concentrating solely on the aesthetics and not the concept of the design or the end result.

What is it that you all say "wow, I like that" to on a web site? Is it flashy images and buttons that change color, picture galleries, information? What makes you bother to bookmark and return to a web site in the future?

V.
 
Vickie, are you referring to designers use programs (such as Dreamweaver) to short cut the HTML codeing? Or PHP, what some call "the lazy man's code?"

The hosting company I work with offers search engine submission for 15 different sites. Anyone going with my hosting plan gets free search engine submission.

If the website doesn't look good, it's not going to get many returning hits or individuals surfing.
 
I kinda like to watch some sites progress as the owner learns more and more over time.

What gets me is the "cookie cutter" factor. I have to snicker when I see someone design their site almost exactly like a competitors or a friends site. Using the same set-up, page design and even going so far as to copy and paste the same terms and guarantees. I like to see some creativity and uniqueness in sites.

But thats just me.............
 
I have to admit, I did steal/borrow? =P the black background idea from Vicki. I just like how it doesn't interfere with the animals color. :hehe:

Far from that, I hate it when people are unoriginal. You may share common ideals with how another site is put together but at least have your own flavor to it.
 
Rebel Dragons said:
I kinda like to watch some sites progress as the owner learns more and more over time.

What gets me is the "cookie cutter" factor. I have to snicker when I see someone design their site almost exactly like a competitors or a friends site. Using the same set-up, page design and even going so far as to copy and paste the same terms and guarantees. I like to see some creativity and uniqueness in sites.

But thats just me.............

Let it go, Mike.

I offered to help Tere and John redesign their website and gave them permission to use certain parts from mine. I received good feedback on my own website and figured it would work well for them too. That was my choice, it shouldn't be any of your concern.
 
PaulSage said:
Let it go, Mike.

I offered to help Tere and John redesign their website and gave them permission to use certain parts from mine. I received good feedback on my own website and figured it would work well for them too. That was my choice, it shouldn't be any of your concern.

Lmao, believe it or not my post doesn't concern you or Tere. I was referring to a site that I came across that is very similar to mine and even copies much of what I have word for word. I kinda take it as a compliment but I still have to snicker about it.

If you 2 don't have anything better to do with your time than scrutinize my posts and make assumptions then it's time to add another hobby to fill your day.
 
Back on topic of the thread, but with a little less leg lifting. :bolt01:

I think we should make a thread asking people what it is they look for in a website that they may potentially become customers of or seek information from. What specific functions/add-ons have that certain appeal to make them want to return or that give a site that "wow" factor.

Mike, pm me with the web addie for this site you speak of. I would like to see a blatant rip off like said site.

Paul, I downloaded a trial version of Macromedia Fireworks. I tinkered with it for just about 10 minutes the other day and was pretty impressed with the results.
 
Rebel Dragons said:
Lmao, believe it or not my post doesn't concern you or Tere. I was referring to a site that I came across that is very similar to mine and even copies much of what I have word for word. I kinda take it as a compliment but I still have to snicker about it.

If you 2 don't have anything better to do with your time than scrutinize my posts and make assumptions then it's time to add another hobby to fill your day.

WTF ever, Mike. Let's see this site that you say copies yours.

Here's my site: www.PaulSageReptiles.com
Here's Tere & John's site: www.ObsessionDragons.com

Now take a look at them--yeah, I know they look a lot alike and even have the same formatting, terms, blah blah blah. So if it WASN'T our sites that you were referring to, then PROVE IT. WHO (in their right mind) would bother to copy YOUR website. C'mon, let's see it. Why don't you start backing up some of these horse :censored: jabs and innuendos that you come up with?

You can blame me all you want for scrutinizing your posts. I'm not going to just sit by and silently continue to watch you :censored: with people. You need to get over it and LEAVE IT ALONE. Don't say that Tere and I are the ones not doing that. Do I need to post the PM's you were sending me the week my dog died as a reminder?

OH, and if you don't think I have to listen to other people vent about the :censored: you're causing for them by continuing to drag this :censored: up repeatedly, you're wrong. I've already asked you nicely to leave a certain person OUT of it, but no... you care more about yourself and revenge than you care about a stressed-out mother of two who has nothing to do with this. That's an observation, not just an assumption.
 
I'm not getting into it Agni with either of you, I have more important things to do.

Matt, you have been sent the information you requested.
 
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