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When to cull, need advice please

Focal said:
Back when I use to browse craigslists for snakes, I came across a pastel and inquired about the price on her. She was a fair deal and come to find out was het for albino. I sent him an email asking when we could meet up and while I was waiting for a response, I went back to craigslist to browse some more. I found a new ad burning the seller of this snake from the actual breeder. Come to find out, the seller was over this breeders house the night before and was offered a free pastel female because it had been X amount of days and would not eat. This person was told by the breeder that they could have it if they wanted to work with it under the condition that they kept it, but instead listed it for sale the very next day. I emailed the breeder and found all this out ... the seller was unethical and a liar. Even the "het albino" part was a lie.

This is the reason why I would never give a non-feeder away. To many people are fly-by-night and just flat out shady in this hobby. Unfortunate but true.
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Not trying to stir anything up here, but, then we should all stop selling normals as people will be selling them as hets.
 
stevek said:
Not trying to stir anything up here, but, then we should all stop selling normals as people will be selling them as hets.
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That's fine, I understand your point, but that's a different scenario. There is nothing wrong with normals, health-wise, and I would never buy a het without paperwork and/or verifying with the breeder. When buying a non-feeder, it is very hard to gauge the eating habits other than the sellers word (which I guess is close to the same). Lying about genetics and selling an animal that will most likely die are quite different to me.

Everyone has reasons why they don't want to sell non-eaters and my decision is based on that experience.
 
stevek said:
Are you saying that a person who was a premature baby should not be breeding?

I can agree with keeping deformed snakes out of the gene pool, absolutely, but again where do we play GOD and decide if 5 assist feeds is too much? and yes, any snake I did sell would be disclosed as being assist fed, even it it was only a single time.
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Well, humans are awarded the freedom to choose, captive snakes are not. It sounds wrong, but it is the truth. You are free to do as you wish with your non-eaters and I don't think anyone is saying you are wrong, but stating their opinions and practices. I respect your opinion to allow the snake to survive, however, I personally would not buy a snake if you disclosed that it had been assist feed 5/6/7 times. If I can get a great eater at the same price, I will.
 
OK just to clear up a few things. First, I would never sell a non-eater. I would sell an assist fed BP that was eating 100% on his own. I would also be 100% clear to the buyer that the BP had been assist fed and for how long.
 
stevek said:
OK just to clear up a few things. First, I would never sell a non-eater. I would sell an assist fed BP that was eating 100% on his own. I would also be 100% clear to the buyer that the BP had been assist fed and for how long.
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I apologize if I implied that anywhere. Not my intention.
 
No apology needed Nick. I'ts all good conversation. I just wanted to throw that out so everyone knows it's not what I would do. And I respect everyones decision to cull assist fed BP's or to keep them, or to give them a new assist fed home (not sell them).
 
To be honest, I don't think I would cull an assist fed snake unless it got really bad. I have never been in that situation so it's hard to say how I will truly handle it. I have two this year that I am keeping for many years that had to be assist fed once (not the reason why I am keeping). One day they will most likely be sold and I personally don't consider them genetically flawed, although, some might. I have one snake that has been assist fed six times. She just started eating yesterday on her own and I honestly don't know what I am doing with her yet. I will most likely sell her with this problem disclosed, but someone will most likely buy her and breed her. Kind of funny because, given the option, I would not purchase a snake in this situation. I will make sure that she eats good before she goes and she might make a lovely pet for someone, but there is no way I could cull her after she started eating.
 
stevek said:
I hope I did the quote thing right. Of course we all want to breeding strong healthy snakes and do what we can to keep the gene pool healthy. BUT who's to say an assist fed snake is not healthy once it starts to eat on his own? Is a BP that started to eat on his own after 6 assist feeds any less healthy than a BP that started to eat after 5 assist feeds. Any less healthy than a bp that was never assist fed? Why is a snake that was assist fed as a baby not a good candidate for breeding?
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I think you answered the question yourself. Who really knows, so why risk it when better stock is available?


stevek said:
Are you saying that a person who was a premature baby should not be breeding?

I can agree with keeping deformed snakes out of the gene pool, absolutely, but again where do we play GOD and decide if 5 assist feeds is too much? and yes, any snake I did sell would be disclosed as being assist fed, even it it was only a single time.
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It's your call, you must decide the fate of that animal and money shouldn't factor in. In my particular situation the only reason this animal was not culled sooner is because as one member pointed out, I started too late. I agree with that, I waited to long to start assisting and felt responsible. I will make sure that she is given a pet only home. While it's true I can not ensure it will always stay a pet, I feel it's the right call for me. It would be better than staying with me, If anything ever happened to me it would probably get sold by my family to another breeder not knowing her background.
 
When purchasing a BP from a breeder, I never thought about asking questions about past BP generations and if they were assist fed. And actually I never asked if the snake I was buying was assist fed. I never felt it was a determining factor as long as it was healthy, a good weight for its age and eating. So many BPs are bought and sold so I'm sure there are plenty of offspring out there where the parents, grandparents and actual snake being purchased were assist fed and no one is the wiser, including the person selling them. Maybe it's a good thing to ask?
 
stevek said:
So many BPs are bought and sold so I'm sure there are plenty of offspring out there where the parents, grandparents and actual snake being purchased were assist fed and no one is the wiser, including the person selling them. Maybe it's a good thing to ask?
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That's why it's so important to build your personal breeder stock from people with a proven track record...because so many people don't care, they just see dollar signs. Why risk haphazardly throwing together a collection?
 
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