Where is.....

[Stardust]

Rich, actually and truthfully, I was not on any forums for a long while. Going thru a 3 year court battle-divorce took its toll on me. So I was so to speak in a state of my own so to speak. I did not even speak much with people I had spoke to before including Wes and Lucille. But that is my problem and something I am dealing with, so no I was not on but it wasn't only this site. I had to ask to even get back in the war rooms it had been so long.
I did have a stake in this site, I did send money freely, I did send a card to you with money in it to fight KS. I had an investment in fauna and you know it. I also had a choice.
There is the difference for me. I am not paying the mandatory ten dollars. I will just watch, if I know of a bad guy I just wont be able to post it. I still contribute. How? Buy only buying my animals on the net in your classifieds. That is contribution to the many who have faith and support this site. As I get stronger again I will probably contribute to some of the forums as well as I have some knowledge of some animals and am happy to give it.
I will not be made to feel by you that I have no stake here or contribute nothing. I most certainly do.
Sometimes people go away for personal reasons, in this case that was me.
Yes I like TRR as well, this was my first home at one time, but Wes is there and can't be here so people should know where to reach him.
Of course I make money, but it wasn't me who said I would run my companies for free not matter what, now was it? It was you. You will not turn this around. I was genuinely on your side during your problems, I won't mention our private conversations as they are private but you know I was and my offers to help out.
I was merely giving my opinions on here, nothing more nothing less, I call it as I see it. Doesn't mean I don't like fauna. Ask your mod Lucille, she knows I had personal problems, maybe just maybe she will be honest and tell you. And yes, I will make no bones about it, I have lost respect for her, if she is honest perhaps that would change.
I won't be made into what you are trying to make me into, Rich, and I resent you are even trying. I am not leaving, I will continue to buy from fauna sellers, if I have something to sell I will post here. End of story as far as I am concerned.

 

[nicolai]

Hmm, does that mean that if one of your friends was put into prison, you would try to help him escape?

No, but I would try to get him a good defense lawyer, and visit him whenever i could.

You know what's really irritating?
When issues regarding the administration of this site and questions of authority get an unbelievable amount of attention in comparison to issues and topics that this site *appears* to have been designed for.

Who was questioning anyones authority? I think i was the one that thanked Rich for the chance to bring WES back. No one once tried to tell him what to do. I think this whole thing was handled in a very intelligent and civil manner. Why can't all disagreements on this site be handled the same way.

The dead horse has been beaten so badly it's barely recognizable.

Wow!!! One thread on this subject is beating a dead horse. If there were 1 less thread then it would have never been discussed.

IMO, stuff like that should be kept behind the scenes.

Rich created the forums as such so that we may discuss things like this and I for one am thankful for it. Also if he thought it shouldnt be viewed by the general public he could have moved it to any of the ADMIN forums for the contributers and above only to see. Since he left it in the "Sound Off" forum I would venture to say he felt it was appropriate there.

While this thread has gone from where Wes is to bringing him back,I do understand that the bottom line is .......This is Rich's site and we only pay rent to be here......So no matter what we may want or say Rich being the landlord here has final say and as tenants we just have to deal with it.So IMHO if asked anything in the way of how would you do this or what would you do are falling on deaf ears, The answers are predestined .As much as I like this site I see it as "This is only business nothing more,nothing less" Wes is gone and won't be returning his choice or business decision, The bottom line is Its all about the Money,Its business nothing more.so when your rent is up its your choice to stay or go sad as that seems

Uh OK.....

Don't let the door bang you on the butt on the way out.

I don't know where that came from. Bill was just giving an honest opinion.

Remember that nicolai offered the option of the $1K fine for Wes. I didn't bring it up and nor had I considered it beforehand. I could have just said NO, but certainly you would have thought me the ogre then as well, wouldn't you?

Which was my point on humanity, and that is why I thanked rich because he could have just said no. Ogre?? I have never seen a pic of you rich so I cant say.

But at least you got the word out that Wes can be reached on that other site, now didn't you? Good for you!

Dont know how to respond to that one. Nothing I could say could deter the fact that several people including myself used bad etiquitte by mentioning other sites on this thread.

See this is the kind of thing that has soured me on "humanity". So many ulterior motives at play.......

Don't give up on humanity so easily. I am a firm believer in that all things come full circle. Do a good deed today and it will be returned in the future when you least expect it.

One thing I do see happening here though (and this is just my opinion) is that there are some people that are becoming very staunch fauna supporters and are fighting tooth and nail to defend it, and then there are the people that have had it for one reason or another and are at the point of either leaving or being booted. There doesnt seem to be any middle ground around here any more, atleast not in the vocal minority that do most of the posting on the site. Most of the casual members and lurkers out there only read what the rest of us are posting about and dont voice thier opinion one way or another so it is hard to figure out what the actual "MAJORITY" of the members think. God gave me a good mind so that I may think, and learn, and he gave me a mouth so that i may say what is in my heart and mind. And so it seems he gave me these two speedy pointer fingers to type what I am thinking about and want to say. I wish that more of the masses would post thier opinions, thoughts, concerns, gripes, ideas and more so that we would all know and have a better understanding of what it is the majority wants and needs from FAUNA.

Sorry, but the speedy little pointer fingers are tired now!!!

 

[WebSlave]

Sorry. But if the acceptable response to someone threatening me with their leaving is for me to get down on my knees and beg them to stay, I must decline.

Anyone who makes a statement like that evidently has their own reasons for doing so, and in many cases the underlying motivation is to make it a jab at me in the process of stating it. I am not going to pander to anyone or try to coddle them to keep them to stay, whether they are the biggest advertiser here, or just the casual visitor who swoops in every year or so. I will treat them all the same. I'm sure I could hear the screaming of "money grubbing bias!" if I treated paid members completely different then other people. Or do we have yet another one of those "damned if you do, and damned if you don't" scenarios? I'm now being damned because I DON'T coddle to paying members?

If you tell me you are thinking about leaving, then fine, I assume your reasons are good enough for you, so have a nice life thereafter. If you find you change your mind in the future, come on back. This site will still be here. I have said from day 1 that the internet is a big place and anyone is free to go to whatever site they want to, whenever they want to, and for whatever reasons they see fit to do so. I have not changed my opinion on this at all.

Yeah, it has already been brought up that one major failing of this medium of communication is the lack of body language and verbal inflections. I do appreciate the help and support from paid members, but no, I won't grovel for it. And I certainly will not prostrate myself in front of anyone in order to keep them here. This site has been doing very well with advertising and memberships where the financial burden has been lifted off of my shoulders. I can contract my programmer to make changes I see needed without having to count my pennies in order to do so.

I do try to run this site the best I can. If you find it acceptable and worth paying for to become a paid member, then fine. If not, then that is fine as well. Most of this site is free and being a non paying member really doesn't hinder anyone all that much. So realistically nearly all of the paid memberships are done as donations and not really "purchasing" anything here of any intrinsic value received because of that payment. People are going to come and go all of the time. If the paid memberships do drop down below a level where this site is worth my time and efforts maintaining, then who am I to argue? It was a failure and I would be on my way to other things to occupy my time. I did expect people to leave when I began the crackdown on the rules. Some voluntarily and some not so voluntarily. That was predictable. And I don't expect that that wave is over with quite yet. Some people are still teetering on the edge, obviously. So when someone tells me they are thinking about leaving, I hope they don't think I am surprised or will be distraught over it. In some cases I might even be surprised at the people who are still remaining.

Really, in many cases, people telling me they are going to leave is nothing more then what I used to tell my mom when I got pissed at her strictness. "Mom! I'm running away from home and NEVER coming back!" :laugh: I think you can guess her response to me......
Which is REALLY the only realistic response to make in a situation like that. Someone who really wanted to leave would just do so without saying a word.

 

[Lucille]

Ask your mod Lucille, she knows I had personal problems, maybe just maybe she will be honest and tell you.

And here, Rozann, a quote from you earlier this thread......

"I am taking a chance and prepared to answer back should Lucille do to me what she did to Wes and talk personal."


Rozann, am not going to participate here other than to tell you that I am not going to reveal to anyone personal issues about yourself that you shared with me.
Want Rich to know something? Send him a note and tell him.

and Rozann: I hope you and yours have a warm and blessed Thanksgiving....

 

[WebSlave]

Of course I make money, but it wasn't me who said I would run my companies for free not matter what, now was it? It was you. You will not turn this around.

Oh really? Please indicate where I have said that. "Companies"? As in SerpenCo and FaunaClassifieds? Plural does mean more then one, and I can tell you flat out that I have NEVER said I would work for free. That IS what you are stating, you know.

About the only quote I can think about that you may be misquoting is when I originally set up the banner ads program. I stated then something along the line that as long as the banner ads paid the bills, then there would be no need for me to consider the idea of paid memberships. Well, guess what........

So please, if you can find such a quote that I have forgotten about, please show it to me.

And yes, YOU have stated that this is all about business and the money. "Money and government", I believe you said. So yes, I am turning THAT around from the direction YOU were trying to make it go. I certainly do hope you don't think that this site is pulling in all that much money. If I dropped my SerpenCo business, I would be eating dog food for dinner most nights if this were my only source of income. And I would likely regret my chasing the squirrels away from here.......

 

[Bill_Leverton]

Rich I never said anything about leaving, All I was doing was making a statement.....and I know that if ( hypothetically) everybody left it wouldn't matter you made that point quite clear. I'm not asking you to coddle no one.But sometimes when reading what you write I do get the feeling that if this site did just faded into the night you would be happier, I may be wrong but that is what I feel and I mean no disrespect in anyway

 

[Stardust]

Now you decide to hold your tongue Lucille, I was merely asking for confirmation from you that I was have personal problems and not talking very much or even on. Can you give me that? I was not asking for you to share all my problems in detail. I thought I made that clear, verification only.
I am having my problems with you but you have a blessed and happy thanksgiving as well.
Rich, I worded that incorrectly, excuse me for doing so. I was meaning your business that has now taken form here in charging to be on two different sites. Hope that is clarified. There is nothing between the lines. That was something you were adamant about not doing, charging. That could be found around here in numerous places.
Look I don't want to argue with you, that is not my intent. I am a non-paying member but a member just the same.

I made my points, gave my opinions, I am satisfied with that. It will change nothing here but helps me to let my words out as they come so they don't stay in me and fester.

To all who read: Happy Thanksgiving and enjoy every fattening bite of it, I know I will

 

[Bill_Leverton]

Same to you Roz Happy Thanksgiving all

 

[nicolai]

ok now...

Am i imagining things or did this thread just...

and i am left standing here looking like this....

 

[WebSlave]

Rich I never said anything about leaving, All I was doing was making a statement.....and I know that if ( hypothetically) everybody left it wouldn't matter you made that point quite clear. I'm not asking you to coddle no one.But sometimes when reading what you write I do get the feeling that if this site did just faded into the night you would be happier, I may be wrong but that is what I feel and I mean no disrespect in anyway

Hmm, let me read that post again.......

While this thread has gone from where Wes is to bringing him back,I do understand that the bottom line is .......This is Rich's site and we only pay rent to be here......So no matter what we may want or say Rich being the landlord here has final say and as tenants we just have to deal with it.So IMHO if asked anything in the way of how would you do this or what would you do are falling on deaf ears, The answers are predestined .As much as I like this site I see it as "This is only business nothing more,nothing less" Wes is gone and won't be returning his choice or business decision, The bottom line is Its all about the Money,Its business nothing more.so when your rent is up its your choice to stay or go sad as that seems

Well no, you don't blatantly say you are leaving at all. But I don't know why it doesn't give me a warm glowing feeling reading it........

 

[PaulSage]

Paul, I have great respect for your opinions, but I disagree on this one. This forum is designed for bit....erm....complaining and venting, and I think it's ok for this thread to have taken the turn it has taken. If the administration of this site is a recurring theme, then it means that people have adamant feelings about that. If I were Rich, I'd be grateful for that.

Terese, I understand what you're saying (I think), and I value your opinions. However, I posted under the assumption that the "Feedback" forum would be a more appropriate place to share the opinions I had previously referred to. Maybe it's good that this thread took the turn it did, but my issue is with the fact that it seems like many threads spiral into this type of argument and disagreement over the site. Personally, it's really ANNOYING for me to try reading a thread hoping that the posts somehow pertain to the original topic just to find some random argument between mods and members. As much as I like Wes, he seemed to be a major player in those confrontations--in fact, I believe it was one of these off-topic arguments that got him banned. Like I said before, Damnit Wes!

I guess the other half of it is the people who complain about the moderators' decisions. Now I know that sounds all anti-democratic, but the complaints sound disrespectful and unappreciative to me. I, for one, would like to see this site cleaned up and am pleased with the direction it has taken. In fact, it wasn't that long ago that I sent a PM to a Fauna Friend basically saying good-bye because I was SO SICK of all of the BS. Then things started to turn around, so I stayed. My question I guess is, why are certain people who have issues with the way the site is run staying? --and not just staying, but coming back?!

Who was questioning anyones authority?

I guess when I read certain posts I get the feeling that the author is trying to coerce the administration on an issue that has already been decided. That to me is questioning authority. Maybe my reading comprehension skills have exhausted or gone awry, but I don't think so.

Wow!!! One thread on this subject is beating a dead horse. If there were 1 less thread then it would have never been discussed.

Where's Wes?
That was answered quite a while ago. Now we're on post #270 or something. So maybe the dead horse isn't being beaten, maybe it's just getting drug down the street. Is there a smiley icon for that?

 

[WebSlave]

Rich, I worded that incorrectly, excuse me for doing so. I was meaning your business that has now taken form here in charging to be on two different sites. Hope that is clarified. There is nothing between the lines. That was something you were adamant about not doing, charging. That could be found around here in numerous places.

Nope you are still not that much clearer to me. Let me read that original quote again:

Of course I make money, but it wasn't me who said I would run my companies for free not matter what, now was it? It was you. You will not turn this around.

What exactly was worded incorrectly? And if there are quotes "That could be found around here in numerous places", then please by all means point them out to me, even one will do, that verifies your recollection. I believe you are mistaken, and quite likely from taking something out of context or not remembering something clearly. If you can word something incorrectly, I strongly suspect you can read or remember something incorrectly as well. So please, try to correct or verify this memory you have, OK?

What do you mean by "two different sites"? Perhaps you are alluding to FaunaClassifieds.com and CornSnakes.com? Well yes, I do have membership fees for both of them? And your problem with that is what? They are two separate and independent websites. Should I also offer my cornsnakes from SerpenCo.com for free to paid members from any one of the message boards? And how about free web hosting on my FaunaNet.com site? And heck why not free advertising as well on my FaunaAds.com site? I'm sorry, I never realized what laws of nature I might have been breaking with my actions.

So, if you work two jobs concurrently, are you implying that you don't think you should receive a salary from one of them? If you pay the fee for HBO on your cable TV service does that mean they should give you Cinemax for free? If your Chevrolet breaks down, then shouldn't Ford cover it under their warranty program?

Darn! What ever has gotten into the business world to think that they should charge separately for individual and distinct services?

Shame on ME.........

 

[Stardust]

Nope you are still not that much clearer to me. Let me read that original quote again:



What exactly was worded incorrectly? And if there are quotes "That could be found around here in numerous places", then please by all means point them out to me, even one will do, that verifies your recollection. I believe you are mistaken, and quite likely from taking something out of context or not remembering something clearly. If you can word something incorrectly, I strongly suspect you can read or remember something incorrectly as well. So please, try to correct or verify this memory you have, OK?

What do you mean by "two different sites"? Perhaps you are alluding to FaunaClassifieds.com and CornSnakes.com? Well yes, I do have membership fees for both of them? And your problem with that is what? They are two separate and independent websites. Should I also offer my cornsnakes from SerpenCo.com for free to paid members from any one of the message boards? And how about free web hosting on my FaunaNet.com site? And heck why not free advertising as well on my FaunaAds.com site? I'm sorry, I never realized what laws of nature I might have been breaking with my actions.

So, if you work two jobs concurrently, are you implying that you don't think you should receive a salary from one of them? If you pay the fee for HBO on your cable TV service does that mean they should give you Cinemax for free? If your Chevrolet breaks down, then shouldn't Ford cover it under their warranty program?

Darn! What ever has gotten into the business world to think that they should charge separately for individual and distinct services?

Shame on ME.........

Oh geesh Rich what I said was not really that much, since I can't seem to get it thru, and I meant two different chargings for BOI and hell. I wasn't trying to get indepth, can we wait til after turkey day and I will find some quotes on what I am meaning?
Actually, when you get HBO you get cinimax for free
the other makes no sense to me so cant reply. Geesh Rich quit being so paranoid, no one is out to get you, though I can understand how you can get that way with this site LOL
AND you forget things too
Anyway, Rich have a Happy Thanksgiving with your wonderful wife


To Paul: This is sound off not the BOI where things are more organized and has to stay perfectly on the subject at hand. That is why I came here. Guess saying Happy Thanksgiving is off topic too but it is "sound off" its a regular forum, it actually has been a pretty overall good thread, nothing really bad, and sometimes this forum CAN get heated, it is allowed here. Not like hell, but opinionated in debates.
I came here knowing it was a safe haven just for that, way long ago, I think, oh gee, the topic of phone telemarketers came up it got very heated, but since it was here and nothing foul it could stay. Personally asked Rich myself and got permission. I believe it is still there in the thread. So this is the perfect place. Happy T-day to you too.

oops sorry Rich, dont know if you celebrate it or not.

 

[Dennis Hultman]

Actually, when you get HBO you get cinimax for free

I wish! Not here.

 

[Cat_72]

Actually, when you get HBO you get cinimax for free

Well heck, we're not that lucky here either. Or maybe you just have to know how to sweet talk the cable guy, lol!!!

 

[Dennis Hultman]

Well heck, we're not that lucky here either. Or maybe you just have to know how to sweet talk the cable guy, lol!!!

For almost hundred dollars a month, they should be sweet-talking me.

 

[Cat_72]

Once again Dennis, an EXCELLENT point. LOL. Dang!

 

[Stardust]

here it is hbo and cinimax together and you pay for another price for showtime and with that you get the movie channels with that.
Thought that was all over the place, guess not, hey webslave I guess I do live in a great place LOL
I dont get the showtime package but everything else for about 70.00, not too bad. But believe it or not I do not get regular channels. Rural and cable refuses to let it on there, was even paying 3 bucks a month for local but cable stopped that. Go figure.

 

[WebSlave]

Oh geesh Rich what I said was not really that much, since I can't seem to get it thru, and I meant two different chargings for BOI and hell. I wasn't trying to get indepth, can we wait til after turkey day and I will find some quotes on what I am meaning?
Actually, when you get HBO you get cinimax for free
the other makes no sense to me so cant reply. Geesh Rich quit being so paranoid, no one is out to get you, though I can understand how you can get that way with this site LOL
AND you forget things too
Anyway, Rich have a Happy Thanksgiving with your wonderful wife

No, what you said was apparently not much, indeed. At least as far as intelligible content is concerned. So now each of the forums on this site are considered to be a separate company? Interesting concept, to say the least.

Nope, I don't believe for an instant that someone is "out to get me". I think some people are just misinformed, either through complete ignorance of the facts, or jumping to conclusions before gathering all of the pertinent information needed. Unfortunately some of those people get real set in their convictions and the truth has a difficult time breaking through that hardened barrier. I sometimes make an effort to educate people, but sometimes real subtle concepts can be hard to get across to some people. Other times there is just a refusal to accept the truth, and some amazing gyrations in reasoning can take place in their heads to try to massage their incorrect world view into something they can believe in.

So, how do your work yourself up into your opinions, Rozann? Do you even bother to READ about stuff before you become opinionated about an issue? Did you bother to read about WHY I am charging a specific fee for the HELL forum? Have your been away so long that you forgot why I started charging for the BOI? Now don't just speed read them, skipping every other word. READ with comprehension in mind, please. I'm not asking you to agree, I'm asking you to just understand the concepts.

Yeah find those quotes. You do that. I am REAL interested to read what you come up with. So far you're not doing so well, in my opinion, explaining yourself here.

Oh, and I've got an eye opener for you, Rozann. For $70 per month, Cinemax is NOT free with HBO......

You are paying for a package. The last time I had paid cable TV (I get basic cable included with my internet service now), it was a flat fee for the services with each premium channel being an extra charge. At the time, I think I was paying about $50 for the expanded channel selection and two premium movie channels, a separate charge for each movie channel.

 

[Stardust]

That is not how my cable works. I can't just get HBO without cinamax and visa versa, they come together. No two different charges. And the only way it is a package is just with basic or to get everything, showtime and all. Where I am at that is how it works.

I am getting a little tired of you putting me down. Acting as you are somehow better then I am. You are not.
Of course I read what is written. I don't just one day say gee I think I will talk about this or that. I think in all angles. And re-read to make sure I get what was written and actually said and make sure I do not read between the lines. Look in the mirror, you misunderstand many times what people are saying, because of your negativity. I have been trying and trying, in vain with you, to lighten this up some. Do you ever have anything nice to say to a person or is it just me? Or do I need to just catch you in a great mood? I so rarely see you say something positive or nice to someone, or if wrong not go in a huff but admit it. You go on these little tirades, I don't understand it. You totally ignored any nice remarks I did make, do YOU read everything? Nic made nice remarks as well, swoop, right over them. Not one nice thing that was said did you respond in kind, not even a simple thank you to be polite.
Is this what it has become just a business, just money, I have been here along time Rich, don't do me this way. I have been very civil.
Before all this new stuff you were always whining about just shutting down, is that it? That you didnt? Or did you just want the "oh please no's" for ego appeal?
AGAIN, I will try to say something nice to you: You have a good site, some nice changes, I will still buy from the people here, Happy Thanksgiving.