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White lipped python

Stephenson8011

Stephenson8011

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Does anyone have any experience with White Lipped Pythons? I have had a subadult for a few weeks. Presumably an import, generally healthy, about 5 feet. I can’t get him to eat. I have tried F/T and live. Feeding both during the day and night in complete darkness and all a no go. Any tips or tricks? Thanks
 
What prey have you offered? What time of day? (dusk is preferred) Imports often appear healthy but are both stressed & often heavily parasitized (both internally & externally). I'd get a stool sample checked as soon as you can. I've not worked with any of these but like many snakes, they are very shy & do best with lots of privacy (hides & low traffic area); sometimes we all offer food too many times & just need to back off for 1-2 weeks to let a new snake settle in. Try covering half the cage with a towel or paper tacked onto the outside to reduce what the snake sees & is presumably stressed by (-like you, lol). Be patient...generally it's best not to even offer food to a new snake for 1 or 2 weeks, especially an import that's been put through so much. Stress reduces how well their immune system functions, keep that in mind. Good luck!
 
I’ve only offered small rats. I leave the snake alone most of the time, only do anything when I’m cleaning etc. I left him alone for a whole week before offering anything and only offer once a week. I’ve never even seen him come out of his hide.
 
There's a huge difference between the smell (& presumably taste) of rats & mice. I'd try a mouse, maybe a live crawler (eyes closed). Not saying it will fill him up, but you want him to accept food, then graduate to more practical fare. Actually, domestic rats & mice all smell different from wild rodents too; remember that some of their scent also comes from what they eat (not lab blocks, lol). I feed pre-killed (F/T or fresh killed) whenever possible, but sometimes you just have to offer what nature does first so their instincts respond the right way, & that goes for c/b snakes as well as w/c's I've helped.

I have also dealt with some wild species that respond better to gerbils or hamsters as food, presumably because they smell more like wild rodents. Be aware that while baby rats & mice with eyes still closed are harmless (do not fight back), the same cannot be said for baby hamsters. Even with eyes closed, they growl & bite effectively, so it's best not to offer them live unless feeding venomous, as they're too small for a constrictor like yours- if underestimated & swallowed live (as many snakes do) they could do real damage.
 
Some snakes just have to test our resourcefulness: I don't think it's so much about this species as just his own personality, health & life experiences so far that's making him a challenge to feed. Be patient. Sometimes the ones we have to work the hardest for turn out to be the most rewarding in time.
 
Was it eating for the prior owner? Did the prior owner state that it was a long-term captive versus a fresh import? If a fresh import, was the snake treated for parasites, and if so what was it given?
 
I got him from a local reptile shop in town. You don’t see White Lips that often so he sold both of them before he even fed them. He’s a pretty good dude and has a good following so I imagine he gets them from a reputable person but I’ll ask him and let you all know.
 
Those are questions you always want to ask before purchase, also whether or not there is any sort of guarantee. When you said it's probably a w/c, I assumed he was shipped to you & that you were unable to get any more information that what you gave. (looks like we all have to quit assuming things, lol...) I hope you're right about the seller.
 
He’s a good dude and has a pretty big following in town. You can tell he really cares about the animals by how clean he keeps them and he’s always willing to talk shop and answer questions or offer help. He said they were treated before he received them but I can bring it in and he’ll treat it again just to be sure. I’m just waiting to see if he can find out what they were eating.
 
"Treated" can also mean different things to different suppliers. For some it's external parasites only, like ticks and snake mites. For others it means panacur and flagyl for internal parasites, both of which have the side-effect of being an appetite stimulant so they're commonly used for WC imports.

If you get presented with a fecal sample I would take it to a vet just to see if your snake is carrying anything. My local dog/cat vet will do a fecal on snake poop for $25 for me to look for the typical pinworms/roundworms/tapeworms/etc.
 
True true. And apparently they were feeding adult mice which seems to be awful small for the size of the snake but I’ll try it. Also if I get a sample I’ll have it tested. I’ll let you guys know if he takes a mouse.

Then I’ll just have to figure out how to switch it to rats
 
Totally agree with bcr229 ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ (& take a stool sample to your vet when you can)

Bringing the snake back in to his shop will only add to its stress, so if you aren't seeing external parasites & that's what he's talking about treating for, that probably won't help.

But flagyl & panacur are another matter- safe & effective when correctly dosed & should help the appetite. I've used both very successfully, by all means take him up on it.

Remember, if he didn't have the snake for long, & you've only had "a couple weeks" it may just be a little slow de-stressing, & may be about to feed for you. No crystal ball here, just saying that when snakes are shipped & change hands a few times, they often get chilled & just too stressed to feed for a while, even when healthy.
 
It's EASY to switch a snake from mice to rats. But asking an already-stressed snake to eat a new food (rats) for you is a 'bridge too far'. And once he is eating for you, he may not object at all to the change, it's just that right now, it's a big "ask".
 
To be clear, I think that before I'd drag the snake back into the store, be honest & let him know that you only offered the snake a rat which he refused, and try feeding the snake a mouse in a few days (either live or dead, whatever way he took it previously). That's one of the most important things when you get a new snake...to find out exactly how & what it fed on previously, and make no changes at the very least until it is feeding reliably-well in it's new home. Snakes rely on instincts, they don't "change gears" all that well, especially when under stress.
 
Yeah I told him I am going to try a mouse later in the week. I want to give the White Lip a break after yesterday and last nights attempt.
 
Ok so I tried an adult mouse and same thing. He struck at it defensively but had no interest in eating. I’m gonna take it up this week and have it treated(Panacur or Flagly). I know that sometimes that can stimulate a feeding response. I’m in the process of moving but I will be looking for a good herp vet to get him checked out but I have noticed that in the time that I have had him he has not defecated. I’m not totally sure of all the implications of that since I have had him 3-4 weeks now
 
Sorry the feeding attempt failed again. If he's not eating, it's fairly normal that he's not defecating either, but that said, I'd be concerned about his lack of appetite. The Panacur & Flagyl may help, I hope? -but if not, as you said, you need a good herp vet. Good luck!
 
if you can, I'd start weighing him now, and then maybe every 2 weeks or so. If he's on hunger strike but not losing weight, you can afford to wait longer, but if he starts to lose weight you might need more vet intervention. Have you seen him drinking? Does he seem dehydrated? Is he passing white urates at all?
 
He has passed unrates. But I rarely see him out of his hide. I’ll have get a scale in order to keep up with his weight I guess
 
Stephenson8011 said:
He has passed unrates. But I rarely see him out of his hide. I’ll have get a scale in order to keep up with his weight I guess
Click to expand...

I think a scale is worth having. It's surprising how long a snake can go without feeding and yet not lose weight, and it's reassuring to know whether that's the case.

If he's passing urates it means at least that his general metabolism is functioning and that presumably he's drinking. Although you really need faeces for a parasite exam, I did take urates to a vet when I had a similar problem - there might be something they can deduce from them.
 
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