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Whitefeather and Prehistoric pets

W

WSReptiles

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My name is Will Slough x breeding partner with that thief Mike (I'm not an indian) Whitefeather. Two years ago, I started sending my retic collection to whitefeather on breeding lone, I did this do to laws in my town about owning large pythons. Whitefeather started selling my snakes one by one (like my whitehead purple eyed female that he sold to andy who works for N.E.R.D. THIS ANIMAL WAS STOLEN Andy will you do the right thing and give it back.)
Prehistoric pets (Jay), has some of my other retics that was stolen from me. 1 a pair of genetic stripes 2 a purple female 3 a tiger hei amel female.After Talking to jay 4 weeks ago he acknowledged that the retic were mine and how crummy it was for mike to trade animal that weren't his. Jay will no longer return my phone calls to get my snakes back.
Now that Whitefeather sits in jail on other charges,he is more willing to give info on were my snakes are at and who has them.
 
I know Jay pretty well and I find it hard to believe he would be dodging anyone's calls. If you're not already you might want to try and call his cell phone number. 714 402 4444

Thanks,
Ben Rogers
 
Not to change the subject but please do not place the rest of us "native americans" in the same sentence with the "whitefeather" wanna be "indian". Good luck on the rest.... wish I could help. Remember... doesn't matter what race you are..."honor is honor"!!! Respect is ....respect! Your word is what is given to you at no cost at birth and it's what remains after you leave!
 
grunkowski (his real name)

They nailed whitefeather? Good! But, if i recall
correctly, it should be prison, rather than jail.
The last charges that he faced were
aggravated assault (again), habitual
criminality and some other weapons counts.
Further, this conviction would make him a
three-time loser. That would equate to quite
a long time in the joint. I hope that he
invests in soap-on-a-rope.

Sincerely,

Gino 'In Da Bronx' Beniquez
 
Sad but true

You apparently don't know him as well as you think. Unfortunately I feel it is doubtful that Will will ever see his snakes again.



BenR said:
I know Jay pretty well and I find it hard to believe he would be dodging anyone's calls. If you're not already you might want to try and call his cell phone number. 714 402 4444

Thanks,
Ben Rogers
Click to expand...
 
This entire issue raises some interesting questions about legalities and morals...

I know a few of the bigger name breeders have had animals stolen from them at times in the past, some of the animals were tracked down and recovered, others were not.

Reccieving stolen property can potentially be a serious crime, but in cases where the individual making the purchase had no reason to believe that the item(s) were stolen, prosecution is generally not an option.

There is also a question about what right Whitefeather may have had to be selling these animals... It's implied very strongly that he and the original poster were business partners of some kind at some point, which might give him leeway in selling the animals which were owned jointly. Additionally, because of whitefeather's poor reputation and obvious criminal history, there is a kind of guilt by association which arises... Asking purely from the standpoint of someone uninvolved- How can it be proven that Michael stole these snakes and sold them falsely? Isn't it possible that he's now just using a buddy to try and obtain animals he had already sold, so that they can be used again? Even if Whitefeather admits to stealing them, can his word be trusted?

Most importantly here though... without the extensive use of AVID chips or other devices, how can any animal (with the exception of a few truely one of a kind specimins) be 100% identified to the point where it would hold up in court? How were animals identified in some of those cases where it was proven that they were stolen, what kind of evidence is required? If someone purchases, unknowingly, stolen animals, what kind of route can THEY take for financial recompensation if the animals are returned to the original owner?
 
You bring up some good points, but this is what I wonder. This "community" is quite small (and the retic "community si even smaller) if you look at the grand scale of things. I am sure Jay has heard about Whitefeather from someone in this community. I am sure Jay (since he knows Bob Clark) knows about Bob's problems and how Bob (apparently) resolved some/all of it.
I would be VERY careful, if I did so at all, when it came to purchasing snakes from Whitefeather. I count my blessings every time one of these threads pop up that I did not do the deal with Whitefeather like he and I discussed. After hearing some of the stories right from WHitefeather himself, along with the two deals ($4k and up) that I have mentioned in many other threads, that fell apart at the seams due to Whitefeathers business tactics, I would not take that chance in a million years.
Now, does this mean Jay is in the wrong. No, no yet. Do I believe that Jay knows the type of person Whitefeather is and the problems some known people have had? Yes I do.
Now, with what Will had to say in his post. He never said he and Whitefeather were "partners", he stated they were "breeding partners". Anyone here knows what this means. All this means is that WIll had sent Whitefeather animals to breed. Nowhere does it say that he and WHitefeather were "co-owners" of the snakes in question. We all know that breeder loans go on all the time. THis does not mean that they are co-owners of the snakes, it simply means that the two people agreed to put their snakes together and produce babies. THOSE I would agree are co-owned. I highly doubt Whitefeather had produced the snakes in question, raised them to the size they are now, and sold them. I believe 110% that Whitefeather took in snakes that belonged to Will 100% and sold them right out form under him.
We know Whitefeather has done this simply by reading threads here and on Bob Clark's forums.
As far as how would Jay be compensated? Good question. I am not a lawyer, but I feel that the snakes should go to Will and Jay would have to take legal action against Whitefeather in order to get his money back. Maybe Jay new nothing, but Will definately deserves to have what is morally, legally, anf financially HIS.
Just my thoughts.
 
Re: Sad but true

Josh Burm Guy said:
You apparently don't know him as well as you think. Unfortunately I feel it is doubtful that Will will ever see his snakes again.
Click to expand...

I have been reading the BOI for a long time but have never had a reason to post until today. I personally have known Jay for years and have purchased and sold him many animals during that time. I have never had a problem with him. I also know that he has left a couple of messages for Will and has yet to recieve a response.

Matt Roberson
 
Will, Remind Jay of....

the stolen albino retic I helped him get back a few years ago. When I first started out looking to buy a pair of albino retics the going rate was $3,500 each at that time. I posted an ad in the Kingsnake wanted section and within a few days got a response from someone. This person's name was Dave from southern California and he offered me an albino retic with NO MONEY DOWN so I could sex it. I thought this was really wierd because who in their right mind has a $3,500 animal without knowing the sex and would ship to a stranger with no money up front? This person also offered me a patternless African rock python for cheap money. Coincidentally, I ended up talking over the phone with Jay of Prehistoric Pets about his available animals and mentioned that I had someone shipping me a white phase albino retic from his area. Jay told me that about two weeks prior he had an albino retic stolen and was the only one with patternless African rocks. It didn't take a rocket scientist to figure out what was up.
I cooperated fully with Jay and the guy shipped me the snake. Up until this point Jay didn't recognize the guy's name or e-mail addy but was sure the animal was his. I was instructed to go ahead with the deal and received the animal as planned. After receiving the retic I was then asked by the seller to make the check out to a different name than he had been using (an alias) and send payment to an alternate address as well. I gave this information and forwarded all e-mails to Jay and he immediately recognized the person as being one of his then current employees. I even overnighted the box used for shipment to the Fountain Valley Police Dept. The next day the guy was arrested at the store by the local police, admitted everything, and ended up going to jail for a long time because it wasn't his first offense.
When I received that albino retic I had a $3,500 snake in my hands with no money involved whatsoever. I could have simply told Jay the animal was never sent and kept it. The guy that sent it couldn't have done a thing because he knew he had shipped a hot animal. I did the right thing and returned the animal to Jay and he in return gave me some great deals on a pair of his albino retics.
Billy and Kevin of NERD can verify this story because they were the ones that shipped it back for me because I was to afraid to ship an animal of that value overnight and I was not approved by the airlines.
I guess the bottom line I'm trying to get at here is what goes around comes around and now it's Jay's turn to help you out. Remind him of my incident and maybe it will help. I met Jay in person at Daytona for the first time this year and he seemed like a great guy. I hope he'll help you out as I helped him out once.
BTW Will, I have a pair of your DH Ghosts that I obtained from Evan Stahl and they are really gorgeous. You see what I mean by what goes around comes around? Good luck!
 
Will-
Remember talking to me outside the hotel at Tinley???? I remember talking to you! You just so happened to tell me that the calico that Andy had purchased from Michael was not yours but in fact Michael's. You said that you were just telling people it was yours just to piss them off.... Any of this ringing any bells?!?
Jon Tarutis
 
Re: Will, Remind Jay of....

Greg Riso said:
the stolen albino retic I helped him get back a few years ago. When I first started out looking to buy a pair of albino retics the going rate was $3,500 each at that time. I posted an ad in the Kingsnake wanted section and within a few days got a response from someone. This person's name was Dave from southern California and he offered me an albino retic with NO MONEY DOWN so I could sex it. I thought this was really wierd because who in their right mind has a $3,500 animal without knowing the sex and would ship to a stranger with no money up front? This person also offered me a patternless African rock python for cheap money. Coincidentally, I ended up talking over the phone with Jay of Prehistoric Pets about his available animals and mentioned that I had someone shipping me a white phase albino retic from his area. Jay told me that about two weeks prior he had an albino retic stolen and was the only one with patternless African rocks. It didn't take a rocket scientist to figure out what was up.
I cooperated fully with Jay and the guy shipped me the snake. Up until this point Jay didn't recognize the guy's name or e-mail addy but was sure the animal was his. I was instructed to go ahead with the deal and received the animal as planned. After receiving the retic I was then asked by the seller to make the check out to a different name than he had been using (an alias) and send payment to an alternate address as well. I gave this information and forwarded all e-mails to Jay and he immediately recognized the person as being one of his then current employees. I even overnighted the box used for shipment to the Fountain Valley Police Dept. The next day the guy was arrested at the store by the local police, admitted everything, and ended up going to jail for a long time because it wasn't his first offense.
When I received that albino retic I had a $3,500 snake in my hands with no money involved whatsoever. I could have simply told Jay the animal was never sent and kept it. The guy that sent it couldn't have done a thing because he knew he had shipped a hot animal. I did the right thing and returned the animal to Jay and he in return gave me some great deals on a pair of his albino retics.
Billy and Kevin of NERD can verify this story because they were the ones that shipped it back for me because I was to afraid to ship an animal of that value overnight and I was not approved by the airlines.
I guess the bottom line I'm trying to get at here is what goes around comes around and now it's Jay's turn to help you out. Remind him of my incident and maybe it will help. I met Jay in person at Daytona for the first time this year and he seemed like a great guy. I hope he'll help you out as I helped him out once.
BTW Will, I have a pair of your DH Ghosts that I obtained from Evan Stahl and they are really gorgeous. You see what I mean by what goes around comes around? Good luck!
Click to expand...

Greg,
There is one really big difference in your situation and the story Will told. You didn't pay anything for that albino retic. Lets say you paid 2,500 to that employee up front for the albino retic. Would it really be that easy for you to take a 2,500?

Ben Rogers
 
I hear what you're saying Ben

and I'm not expecting Jay to take a hit here for anything he thought he'd bought legitimately. From Jay's post it seems like we haven't heard the whole story from Will. If he and Will can work everything out we don't need to know more. Will stated Jay was avoiding him but it appears Jay's open to talk so that's a good thing.
 
At the time Jay bought the snakes everyone in the herp world knew that Whitefeather was a lying, thieving, coniving scumbag that took other's snakes and money. How on earth could Jay think he was "buying legitimate snakes"?

Here's what I think. Whitefeather knew he was going to jail and sold everything he could. Jay didn't care one way or the other if he was buying stolen snakes or not and simply jumped on the opportunity to get expensive snakes for peanuts. And lastly, Will will never get his stolen snakes back.

Will, I'd advise you to take it to court.
 
I am extremely curious about something. Prehistoric has the nicest photo layout of snakes (retics) that I have yet seen.
Is this a factual representation of what they have and breed?
How did they get from some prior talk about them in old posts that I have seen, to evidently being in the stratosphere of herps?
 
Josh, Boy you sure talk a lot of crap about people you obviously don't know, and a transaction that has nothing to do with you. I know Jay Brewer better than anyone that posts on this site. If there are two things Jay Brewer IS NOT, its a liar and a thief. What you have against Jay, I have no idea. But slander is against the law, so why don't you come down to the shop and share your problems with Jay personally; Jays a flexible guy and will help you with whatever problems you might have. Josh, you don't have a clue as to what happened, and your also WAY out of line when it comes to what Jay is all about. Your comments maybe welcome in some other unrelated post on the boi, but here they could get you your own court date.
To everyone else, all I can do is vouch for Jays character (he's the most honest person I know) and guarantee you Jay has not received or dodged one call from Will. Infact he has left SEVERAL messages on Will's phone regarding the original post.........and still he has not heard from Will. Jay keeps hoping that Will might post his side of the story...........but still we wait.
Thanks for your time,
Todd Dyer
 
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