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whos in line for a raptor

Dan it's unfortunately clear that you do not have a proper understanding of genetics.
The way Tremper markets his animals requires that his customers do not understand or are capable of fooling themselves into taking a chance. Customers like this are not interested in ethical breeding, but only emulating Tremper as a godlike figure. Customers like this see dollar signs and not much else.

If you will notice, a great deal of the descriptive terms Tremper uses to label and market his animals leaves customers to speculate on the genetics. I can use your own statements defending the RAPTORs as evidence of this. You don't know what they are, but you're confidant they are genetic and you can faithfully produce more of them. You speculate what they could be, and it has been pointed out to you that your speculation is incorrect, but you are not discouraged- you are confidant that Tremper would sell only the best animals.


I hope that one day you will read my words and recognize that I was not being harsh out of some misguided jealousy. My concerns in this matter are only the preservation of the future of leopard geckos in captivity. I truly feel that aggressive deceptive marketing from the likes of Tremper continues to lead to unhealthy inbred animals.
While Tremper maintains he has inbred for 20+ years it is also proven that he has within that time purchased wild caught leopard geckos which would indicate that he has not actually inbred the way he claims.
It is undeniable that Tremper has introduced many new morphs into captive collections, but if you emulate Tremper's aggressive, deceptive marketing you will not possibly have the success that Tremper has attained.
 
So, where is your proof in this? Do you have a copy? Funny thing is I doubt you do, while I have one in my hand at this exact moment. How do you know Tremper did not just sale the animals like he did with everything else in that shipment? Back in the days Tremper imported those geckos he used to import quite a few things, and he used to sale them all off soon after. Maybe he was buying it for a friend, we just don't know. Why did you even bring this up, just to bash Tremper at every chance you get? If you want to be anti-Tremper, which I don't mind, present the facts and leave the rest behind.

E2MacPets said:
While Tremper maintains he has inbred for 20+ years it is also proven that he has within that time purchased wild caught leopard geckos which would indicate that he has not actually inbred the way he claims.
 
?

You don't know what they are, but you're confidant they are genetic and you can faithfully produce more of them.
yes by breeding an APTOR to a "het" (no matter what the method of inheritance ) like i said i bought them because i like them . i do have a good understanding of simple genetics . why do you say this ? because im asking how others read the difference between co- dom and inco-dom ? a good majority of people have no idea one of those exists and labels everything as "co-dom" instead of actually trying to find out the difference between the two ,like im doing here . right now alex calls the "macks" a co-dom trait , well im leaning toward incomplete dominance and agree with Albey on that one (who calls it inco-dom)
Customers like this are not interested in ethical breeding, but only emulating Tremper as a godlike figure. Customers like this see dollar signs and not much else.
what exactly does that have to do with me and our discussion ? you asked what are the traits . i relayed the info from rons site basically that is all . i am NOT defending the APTOR or RAPTOR , or ron in his marketing . i would never call it patternless myself or market ANYTHING as %100 proven -genetic until i have seen proof after the Giant -episode and i am offered no %100 proven -guarantees at this time . did i say i beleive this "patternless " and the red-eye genes to be recessive , codom,etc. sorry NO i didnt . not really sure where you are going with this
 
mr hue

I'll make it really simple for you
exactly the way you spoke to me in your e-mail ! why ? only because i had questions . you simply did not explain the ages and size differences and there was a large difference in price . excuse me for asking questions ! they were "breedable size" which to some unethical breeders IMO find acceptable , how am i to read your mind to know the age and weight etc. ? when your answer sounded snotty in that same way i should just kiss your ars and not tell you im unhappy with your attitude ? . i dont care who you are big breeder or someone on the street , i give respect where respect is due . sure there are a few people on this forum ive "pissed off" and they have that right . there were some misunderstandings between myself and a few others in things that were said , done , yadayadayada
you rub people the wrong way and you make a total ass of yourself...go figure why NO ONE wants to sell you any "Mack Snows" ! I count at least 3 people on this particular thread that you've pissed off !
rub you the wrong way by simplytrying to work out a deal , that was made to be ordered that weekend and shipped that monday . i am guilty of trying to contact you ,when i was supposed to to place the order and there is no answer . so i called several times ONLY because i was anxious to place the order , and have them shipped that monday BEFORE you went out of town , like we had planned . i called over the week or longer you were gone and you are the one that was pissed ? OMG poor baby has to do business as it was planned . so then you tell others not to sell to me
 
so how am i to know ?

what your "breedable size" is ? so i had questions , and you talk to me like i am stupid for asking. the 2-3 month old @ 1000 could easily reach 40g. in 2 more months , i figured IF your breedable size is something like that , why should you charge 750 more for it . if you had given me all of the facts i wouldnt have questioned it . comprende ?
 
Dan, i think youre talking to yourself at this point LOL
:rofl:

oh crap i forgot i was blind and cant read what you are typing :crap:


oh please cry me a river poor dan........ :nopity:

ya done it to yourself
 
Say Dan...
quick question for the know it all ...how many leopard geckos have you produced in a lifetime...hey poser ???

I have bred one pair of geckos (well one pair 10 years ago)

Enough Said.

you smoking crack ? You dont remember sending me over 15 e-mails and over 30 telephone messages over the course of a weekend !? Who do you think you are...the friendly neghborhood stalkerman. Never occured to you that people actually have lives outside of work ? and that by leaving them over 15 emails and 30 telephone messages...you might've..could've rubbed them the wrong way ? what would make you think that I would've still wanted to sell you anything ?

Maybe another thread should be started and all of your e-mails posted to it ..what do you think ? considering this aint the thread for it !

Get a life !
 
What's the deal . . .

. . . I think I'm heading back to KS where all the grown ups are.

LOL.

Give it a break: know it alls - professional cyber-brawlers - Estalkers and high school genetic experts all bum me out - especially when it's over leopard geckos.

Time to get a life - enjoy the hobby.

A wise man once told me - never get into a peeing contest with a skunk.


:no01:
 
I think I'm heading back to KS where all the grown ups are.

LOL LOL :rofl: Thanks for that Monte! I know you were half serious but still it made me laugh so hard I alomsot spit out the diet coke i was drinking. Oh the things I find humorous.... LOL Anyway..

On the subject of the imported leos that Tremper brought in..

It is irrelevent because (Justyn is right on this) we don't know whether he resold them or kept them. Honestly I couldn't care less what he did with them. In fact, you know what, I don't care what Tremper does anymore. If he wants to dip his geckos in blue kool aid and call them "Double Dipped SurprisoRaptors", fine, whatever.
 
Yeah, Monte made me laugh as well!!! Blue kool aid huh? Maybe I can market it at Daytona next year, hahahahahahaha.


KelliH said:
LOL LOL :rofl: Thanks for that Monte! I know you were half serious but still it made me laugh so hard I alomsot spit out the diet coke i was drinking. Oh the things I find humorous.... LOL Anyway..

On the subject of the imported leos that Tremper brought in..

It is irrelevent because (Justyn is right on this) we don't know whether he resold them or kept them. Honestly I couldn't care less what he did with them. In fact, you know what, I don't care what Tremper does anymore. If he wants to dip his geckos in blue kool aid and call them "Double Dipped SurprisoRaptors", fine, whatever.
 
i did not call or email you that many times alex

EVER think my cell phone might have called you from my pocket a number of times ? if i emailed you in excess , it was to three seperate addresses and only because i wasnt sure it was going through , since you e-mailed me back the same day before that on several occasions . the weekend was nearing , you told me you were going out of town , so i was trying to place the order . we will see next season . enough said .
 
no posing here !

im just starting breeding leopard geckos (no big secret) i have bred the pair of fat-tails ten years ago , the pair i told you about from your quote recently , and about 10 more females since w/ various males . a few eggs hatching in a week or so .....and many many many more on the way from a few "Ground floor" (in your words) projects .
 
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