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Why do people....... More.....

an interesting topic...and one that i have considered alot over my many years in this hobby. I do not feel that reptiles are emotional, or even particularly intelligent. I do, however, feel that several species are capable of recognizing individuals and responding differently to them than to anybody else (even if there are several caretakers that have regular access). Doubt that? then I maintain that you haven't done this long enough or worked with the right animals. *Note - I make no claims as to WHY they respond differently, just that they do. To cite a few specifics, I have noted this to extremes with many African rock pythons, water monitors, and American alligators.
 
Gregg M said:
The way an animal reacts to certain stimuli does not mean it has a personality..... Learned behavior does not mean "personality" but it is a primative type of intel......
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lol Gregg, what is personality if not learned behaviour? Maybe we're actually reading too much into human behaviour than is really there.

(tho I do agree with you about people who mistreat their animals because they attribute "human" feelings etc to them instead of accepting them for what they are.)
 
you may have something there, laura. now that I think about it, endearing "personalities" are often exhibited by the "less than intelligent".
I'm sure that one'll get me hanged somewhere. (people are so defensive of their pets and partners, lol)
 
Good question Laura...... But if you know even alittle bit about who I am, you would know I have an answer....LOL...... A personality is not a learned behavior and it has alot of emotion behind it....... Learned behavior is not an emotional behavior...... Learned behavior is an instinct and helps animals to adapt to changes in their environment just like learned behaviors help us out in every day life...... That does not qualify as a personality..... Are you starting to understand my thoughts here???? LOL..... On a neurological level, reptiles have very simple brains that are for simple fuctions..... Their brains are not "made" for complex functions like having personalities.....
 
What are emotions but various chemicals released into the brain etc., triggered by either external stimuli or learned behaviours?

IMHO, human personality is a combination of genetics and learned behaviours. We're just animals who think we're better than the other animals.
 
IMHO, human personality is a combination of genetics and learned behaviours. We're just animals who think we're better than the other animals.
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-Actually in a way, I do agree with you. However we have a much more advanced and evolved brain. This allows a better storage and configuration for knowledge. Most people say other animals cant truly "reason" but I need to disagree. It is a simple reaction caused by stimuli. Most animals like dogs can determine not to go into the rode when a car is coming. Instinct or reasoning??? If it was instinct why do other dogs just walk out in the road and get killed. Also if it was instinct, where did they develop that one?? Dogs were around allot longer then cars...lol. You can make your own decision on this one....
 
Exactly Laura!...human emotions may be more complex than what other animals...can't think of a word but you know what I mean...lol...but that does not mean that human emotions are no more than neurological responses to stimuli that result in behaviors apropriate to the stimuli. For example love...love is an emotion meant to tie human beings together so that we do not become alone and lonely...we are, just like dogs, "pack" animals that crave the affection of others. "Love" is what keeps us together! ...ok that sounds cheesy...lol
 
Your'e both right. Love is considerd a chemical reaction within the brain. I do not know where I heard it from, but I think the chemical reaction can be equivalent to eating a certain amount of choclate (in the punds). I need to research that one better, so don't qoute me on it.
 
Reptiles just operate on a much more primitive level. What about emotions like fear? This is very a very primative emotion. Fear is rooted in instinct and is basic to survival.

I don't think that leos or reptiles in general are capable of more complex emotions like anger or love. But, conversely I do think that they have personalities. What is personality if not a set of individual preferences and behaviors. My reptiles are all different from each other in some sense.

I also don't think anthropomorphizing is bad if it's not carried to the extreme and recognized for what it is. It helps us relate to and bond with our charges. Ultimately it's this bond that we forge with them that ensures that they are well cared for and looked after.

-Alice
 
actually......

The only one who really has a clue as to leopard geckos' mental capacity and motivations is Glenn Bartley. I quote him:

They are really aliens intent on taking over the earth, but needing help to establish breeding populations of sufficient numbers they have used their mind bending abilities to enslave a certain group of herp keepers.
 
This thread is taking a turn... it's not as fun to read as the 1st 1/2! Well, except for the alien part... thanks Laura for keeping it on the lighter side!
 
leaftail said:
What are emotions but various chemicals released into the brain etc., triggered by either external stimuli or learned behaviours?

IMHO, human personality is a combination of genetics and learned behaviours. We're just animals who think we're better than the other animals.
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Now i would not go that far, To me some mammals are capable of emotions and other things. I remember literally seeing a dog cry once seperated from a a human friend. The dogs face the next day had visable marks from tears running down its face. It was examined by a vet to make sure it did not have a watery eye problem and it did not have any problems at all.

Like those animals that save thier owners from fires and other accidents, most were not trained for it. I have seen dogs never known for violence, attack someone who tried to hurt its master. If that isnt a expression of an emotion, i would not know what to call it then.
 
I think animals have emotions too. Geckos are simpler creatures so their emotions are simpler. Like alice said, fear is an emotion, a primitive emotion, and no one can argue that animals feel fear. I think they feel happiness too, in a very simple form, call it contentment maybe, like when they have a nice full belly and are tucked into a warm safe hide.
 
I must disagree and say that fear is not an emotion but it is a primortal mechanism of self and species preservation....... Fear is an instinct but can be triggerd by a learned behavior...... Some people keep comparing dog and cats and other animals to reptiles..... Reptiles have a much more primative and basic brain with basic functions...... They are absolutly incapable of feeling things like happiness, sadness, love, and so on...... The Srtess they do feel is not a mental stress like we feel.... It is a stress on their physical being that cause them to have problems...... Anyway, I think this is a good topic of convo...... It is interesting to read what others think on the topic.....
 
Gregg beat me to it. Fear is a basic instinct not an emotion. If it was connected to emotion they might just drop their tail whenever a human they don't care for comes into view.
 
which brings us immediately back to the concept of having any sort of feeling for (or opinion of) a person. you started a good thread, Gregg. inspiring thought, and definitely evoking opinion and sentiment...have fun all - I'll be back for the definitive answer later. hate to miss any of this, but my snakes miss me (couldnt resist that)
 
Couldn't one argue that emotions are rooted in instinct? Where do you draw the line?
-Alice
 
Emotions are not rooted to instinct..... Emotions and instincts are 2 different mechanisms that occur in two different parts of the brain..... It just so happens that reptiles are missing the part of the brain that controls emotions....
 
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