Why hots?

[MidgetFadeds]

For me it was all about the uniqueness of the animal and the risk was something unfortunate that I was bound to mitigate for my safety and that of others. I liked the snakes as creatures alone not because of their venom but because I like them. If they were not hot I’d like them the same maybe even more because I wouldn’t have had to go through all the safety protocols.

I like (currently don’t keep) the hot species I like because I like them, lol simple as that really. Any substitute was not sufficient just like when they changed the Becky actors in Rosanne or the Darrens in Bewitched. When people say just keep the non venomous look alike its like saying, “Oh you really like crested geckos cool but they are deadly why not try a leaf tail gecko they are similar.” Yeah...just not the same for me [emoji1360]

Still, I agree with everyone’s liability and safety concerns fully. Sadly most (not all) private hot keepers Ive known and have witnessed over the last 18 years of my observing have been undertrained, under experienced, and slightly egotistical which is a dangerous combination.

-TC
Former AZA Zookeeper & University Venomous Lab Keeper


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[Donald C]

I don’t mean younger people selling them. I’m talking about the younger inexperienced buying. I too see at expos the older generation selling. I do think that people should be IDed before buying venomous snakes like alcohol. I mean no offense to the responsible younger generation. I graduate you for your success. I my self would not be able to do this.

I'm not going to say that what you are describing doesn't happen, since I know it does (never seen it personally). Personally, I feel that, if you are vending, the first questions asked should be ID and experience, with a close follow-up of references. That would help ensure that those interested in keeping actually get a mentor and actually learn how to work hots instead of jumping right in.

 

[Roscoe09]

Let me re-explain. I do see predominantly older generations sell them. I do realize they’re younger people you sell them as well. I’m just saying a lot of hot accidents seem to the ignorance of younger generations. As well they’re still some of the older generations are almost ambitious as the younger having accidents as well. People should be mentored like you said similar to the poison dart frog hobby. Please ask questions if you’re not understanding what I’m getting at?

 

[Donald C]

I apologize, I wasn't grilling you, if that's how it appeared to you. I see where you are coming from and acknowledge that there is truth in that, I'm just giving my 2 cents worth.

 

[Roscoe09]

No apology needed. I’m sorry if I made you feel that way. Your comments aloud me to give more depth to my responses. I see that my comments were a bit vague. I agree with many of your statements. Thanks.

 

[Roscoe09]

Here’s a article: https://www.google.com/amp/myfox8.c...d-hospitalized-after-poisonous-snakebite/amp/
18 is still a little young in my opinion. I think it’s also bad that online a ten year old (for example not real) can buy like an eyelash viper with no questions asked.

 

[Donald C]

Actually, I know the guy that got bit in that article. He's come quite a way since that time, much better keeper now.

 

[Roscoe09]

What hots do you keep? Did you ever vend at the Hampton Roads Expo?

 

[Roscoe09]

If anyone is considering a venomous snake reads this, I really recommend not getting a vemonoid. They’re not a smart choice as a replacement hot because they can come in really bad condition.

 

[Donald C]

My hots are currently with a mentor and include a 2017 C. adamanteous, a P. colletti juvenile pair, and three 2017 Heloderma h. horridum.

Since I live in an apartment, they are with my mentor. I refuse to accept the level of liability for bringing venomous into an apartment. The consequences of the unlikely escape are well beyond what I am willing to accept, as it would cause a great deal of damage to the local hobby.

I also haven't been a vendor at any show, yet. I'm trying my hand at breeding a couple animals this season. One set is pretty much guaranteed, and the other sets are a toss-up, as I got mixed info on what was needed for breeding.

 

[Zach_little562]

But it’s much more than a test of skill or a show of bravado, as some of you say. It’s about interacting with an animal that very few will ever understand, an animal that fascinates you more than any other. It’s about showing the people you meet that they aren’t mindless killing machines but that they have traits and personalities that make them unique. Elapids for instance are more intelligent than any other snake you will run across, it might surprise you. They aren’t the monsters you portray them as, they are amazing animals that are near and dear to those who have the ability to keep them. Extraordinary animals with extraordinary abilities, and that is why we keep them.


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[BlueCrowned]

If anyone is considering a venomous snake reads this, I really recommend not getting a vemonoid. They’re not a smart choice as a replacement hot because they can come in really bad condition.

Creating venomoids is clearly unethical any way and they can sometimes still manage to envenomate so it creates a false sense of security. Bad idea all around.

 

[Helenthereef]

Here's a link to a very edifying thread posted by a most experienced hots keeper who was originally showing that he could handle his rattlesnakes safely, but eventually had the (very close to) worst happen. I really admire this gentleman for his frankness and lack of machismo bulls**t about what can and does happen even to the best.

Unfortunately many of the photographs are no longer there, but it's an educational read if you have a little time to spare and follow it through.

http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=481703&highlight=rattlesnake

To clarify - in the earlier photographs he was sitting in a lawn chair in an outdoor enclosure, free handling Sweetpea the rattlesnake. In post 110 he was in a hospital bed, connected to a network of tubes and machines.

 

[mike03081970]

Here's a link to a very edifying thread posted by a most experienced hots keeper who was originally showing that he could handle his rattlesnakes safely, but eventually had the (very close to) worst happen. I really admire this gentleman for his frankness and lack of machismo bulls**t about what can and does happen even to the best.

Unfortunately many of the photographs are no longer there, but it's an educational read if you have a little time to spare and follow it through.

http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=481703&highlight=rattlesnake

To clarify - in the earlier photographs he was sitting in a lawn chair in an outdoor enclosure, free handling Sweetpea the rattlesnake. In post 110 he was in a hospital bed, connected to a network of tubes and machines.

I love my snakes also love handling them there are things not meant to be housed look at my gaboon viper isn't it pretty can't touch it because it will kill me and my whole family just don't understand no matter how good you think you are they are better

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[hotlips]

For me it was all about the uniqueness of the animal and the risk was something unfortunate that I was bound to mitigate for my safety and that of others. I liked the snakes as creatures alone not because of their venom but because I like them. If they were not hot I’d like them the same maybe even more because I wouldn’t have had to go through all the safety protocols.....

I no longer keep anything but harmless snakes, but some years back, I accidentally got into rattlesnakes primarily because they were local & ending up in people's yards, & then kept a number of both hot & previously-owned & unwanted venomoids safely for 20 years. I was not initially drawn to rattlesnakes at all, but I just didn't want them killed needlessly for being in the wrong place, and I've never been sorry that I kept an open mind when the first one (a venomoid) was offered to me, as that snake taught me a great deal. It certainly wasn't about him being venomous, as he had no ability to envenomate, but really about his personality. I can even remember thinking at the time that rattlesnakes were "ugly" as I was comparing them to my colorful rat snakes. I often told people who asked why I helped rattlesnakes that I didn't like them "because they are venomous, but in spite of it".

So I can really relate to MidgetFadeds' post, quoted above. The statistics say that most venomous bites befall young males who've been drinking+, and while there does seem to be a "macho" element for some, happily not everyone falls into that category. With a background in health care, I've seen plenty of bite images & have an enormous sense of self-preservation. I'd also caution anyone thinking of keeping hots, not only about the liability, but where you're going to live: if you rent, forget it, and if you own a place, good luck with homeowner's insurance. (I was very lucky in that respect, I had an agent with whom I was honest, trusted & locally well-known.)

 

[BlueCrowned]

I have to admit I would love to keep coral snakes, but I know I'm not anywhere near responsible enough to do it. There are a few species that are uniquely beautiful. If they were not venomous I'd already have some.

 

[hotlips]

I have to admit I would love to keep coral snakes, but I know I'm not anywhere near responsible enough to do it. There are a few species that are uniquely beautiful. If they were not venomous I'd already have some.

Coral snakes are beautiful but so secretive, you wouldn't see much of them anyway. IMO, they aren't prettier than so many kinds of milk snakes and there's no venom to worry about with milk snakes. A milk snake would be great practice anyway, & I've heard people saying they got one just for that reason (similar behavior, very quick moves) and hard to contain (tiny snakes can be such escape artists). An "oops" with a milk snake is way better than an "oops" with a coral.