Why must people at shows lie?

[Glenn Bartley]

...like poker games. If, when you look around the room, you can't spot the sucker in the game . . . it's you.

I'll have to remember that next time I play poker - which is not often - but when I do I have tried to spot the sucker in the game. Funny how many times I could not spot the sucker - when for the whole game - he was sitting in my seat!

 

[sschind]

The sad thing about all this is that it creates a feeling of mistrust among everyone, toward everyone. It doesn't matter if it is warrented or not. Some people have the attitude "don't trust anyone" and I think that is unfortunate. What is even more unfortunate however is the fact that they most likely were ripped off enough along the way to give them that attitude. Either that or they are one of the dishonest ones and they figure everyone else is like them. Either way it is sad.

Steve Schindler

 

[Glenn Bartley]

Steve,

I don't know about that. I trust lots of people, even at herp shows. The thing is that I usally have enough savy to know when someone is pulling my pudd and giving me all the nasers that I want to hear. When someone makes the herp they are selling sound PERFECT in that it fits every criteria I ask about, well then I begin to wonder and I would definitely check around some more. If someone sounds like they are being straight up based on what I know, and what others may tell me, then I would probably trust that person enough to buy something from him/her. I, on the other hand, would not likely give blind trust to someone who is telling me what seems like everything I want to hear if making something like an impulse buy where I know little to nothing about the item being purchased. In a seller/buyer situation: Blind trust - where you know nothing about the person in whom you are putting your trust - is rather foolish unless maybe if you are in an emergency and something badly. Trust is often something which is earned, especially in a market type situation.

I guess I may be cynical because I do question someone's motives when something sounds too good to be true, but based upon experience I find that a cynical attitude (in the face of the perfect whatever) has often kept me from becoming disappointed. A fine example of something that sounded too good to be true was when I took my son out for a Blue Fishing trip a few years back on a party boat. There were only two party boats kept at this particular dock. I asked the mate of the first one we walked up to about what we should expect to catch that evening. He said they were knocking them dead each day and night. Everyone was limiting out. The fish were huge. We would be too tired to reel em all in. Guaranteed great fishing. This guy actually seemed surprised when I walked over to the mate of the other boat to ask him also. My son actiually got a bit upset with me, he thought I was being way to picky and maybe crazy.

Well my son soon realized that the first mate we questioned had probably lied to us, that is once we had spoken to the mate at the other boat. The second guy told us that the tide would be wrong that evening, all the fish in the past week had been caught on an outgoing tide, He said we would be extremely lucky to catch one or two fish each but that the crew would do their best to try and find a school of choppers. That was a big blow to both my son and myself. I knew we were going out fishing regardless of the fishing forecast, but I had hoped for better. You guessed right if you figure I took the second boat. The mate actually seemed surprised that we had decided to go at all. I explained I was taking my son fishing no mater what. Then I told him that we were taking his boat because I believed the crew of this boat would genuinely try hard to find the fish. I also explained about the mate at the other boat, this mate just shook his head in an all too familiar way - he had heard this before.

Whom would you have believed? I am happy I did not immediately put my blind trust into the guy who told us that the fishing would be great. That would have been a real bummer for Brendan and myself. As it turned out we caught only one fish. I hooked it, and then handed the pole to Brendan. He almost dropped the pole more than once, he was about 9 or 10 at the time and it was a pretty big fish. Well because we had not had high hopes one fish was ok by us. It was especiually nice because it wound up being the pool fish by about a few ounces. That pool paid for our fares on the boat, but did not pay for my reel, it stripped the gears and we were lucky to get it in at all. Catching that fish was a real stroke of luck enhanced by a captain who kept moving the boat searching for some fish. Being out there with mates who worked hard and helped me and my boy with instructions on how to land it was also nice but that was not so much luck as it was picking the right boat based on trusting the right guy.

I don't suggest not trusting people - just base your on something other than blind faith.

Best regards,
Glenn B

 

[sschind]

Glenn,

You are right, There are people around that I trust also, but like you I have been around those people enough to know them and to trust them. I guess my comments should have been directed more toward people you are not familier with. I agree that blind trust is perhaps unwise. On the other hand automatically not trusting someone, although it may keep me from making mistakes, also makes me feel a bit bad. I know that when something sounds to good to be true it usually is and that is a different story. I'm sure that for the most part we agree on this, heck I'm sure most people do, the amount of cynicism that comes into play I suppose is based on your experiences.

Like you I probably would have chosen the second boat, and I'll give you a little story to illustrate my point. I collect advertising items from the Leinenkugel brewery. I was at a show one time and there was a guy selling a clock that I had always wanted but could never afford the usuall going rate of 300 - 400 bucks. in fact he had $325.00 marked on the tag (which I honestly did not see until I got home.) This dealer, that I had seen around at shows and auctions had one for sale at this particular show and when I asked him he said, for you $200.00 (in fact he had $325.00 marked on the tag which I honestly did not see until I got home.) the first thing I said was "$200.00 whats wrong with it" the guy looked hurt. He said "nothing, its just that I like to give friends a deal" Keep in mind That even though I had seen this guy perhaps a couple of dozen times we had only spoken once or twice, I didn't even know his last name. and I had never purchased anything from him. Nor had I ever spoken with anyone who had any other experiences with him different than mine. I told him that I would buy it but that I had a bit of a problem. I was going to an auction later and that I was looking for a particular item on the sale and all I had was $250.00 bucks which I figured I might need every bit to buy the item. It was a sunday so the banks were closed and I didn't have a check book (learned that lesson a long time ago) he said no problem. Go to the auction, I'll hold the clock, come back after the auction, if you have the money great, if not you can take the clock and send me a check. Well, I didn't get the item at the auction (it went for a decent price and I would have bought it if the clock wasn't there) I went back to the show, paid the guy for the clock, and heard from 3 other reliable people that he had turned down 2 offers of over $400.00 when people saw the clock in the back of the car.

My point. I had no reason to not trust this person but my first reaction was to question him. He had no reason to trust me and he went way above and beyond. To make me feel even worse, I was the very first person at the show to even see the clock. I was at his table when he was unpacking his car. We became good friends after that and I still feel like crap when I think about this even though it happened almost 15 years ago.

so yes, trust can get you into a lot of trouble, but the lack of it can make you feel like crap sometime. (uffern, this quote is not as good as yours but you may use it if you like ;-) )

Steve Schindler

 

[Pennebaker]

I just have to point out that the lying/trust issues goes both ways when it comes to shows.

Many of us have had animals stolen off of our tables, many of us have experienced someone buying an animal leaving it in its container in a hot vehicle while they went to eat and come back demanding a refund when it died accusing the vendor of it being sick (didnt this even happen a few years ago in TX to Bob Clark--an albino boa), people with all kinds of stories to try to get you to lower your prices, etc etc. There is the potential for shady people on both sides of the table.

However, I have to say that I do wish promoters could be a little more scrupulous in what they allow to be put out on tables for sale--obviously sick animals for sale do nothing but harm business and is just downright wrong.

Although I agree that the consumer needs to be more educated--it is something that we need to be able to deal with because it is not going to happen overnight and moms have a hard time saying no to an excited 10 year old. It amazes me that a vendor has no issue selling this 10 year old an emaciated nile monitor as a pet, but people amaze me all the time

I do think the dumerils thing is a little grey, because they are known to be a smaller boa (btw, great animals and pets).

Anyways, just had to put in that the lying/cheating is not just vendors (I know you all know that, but just to be balanced).

dana

 

[Glenn Bartley]

Steve,

I hear your point. I too probably would have been somewhat skpetical of a deal that sounded as good as that one for the clock. If that guy felt hurt about you asking if there was something wrong, I don't necessarily think you should have felt bad. Sure how you feel and how I think you should feel are not the same - I just mean it almost seems unusual for that guy to feel hurt if you two really did not know one another. He did for some reason refer to you as a friend when you said you hardly knew him - go figure. He did a really nice thing, but you were not wrong to ask if there was anything wrong with the clock. Still, I understand how you felt and why you felt like that, I may have felt the same in your shoes - but you probably don't have a reason to feel like that any longer. Heck, you paid your dues by feeling bad about for as long as you have. It says a lot about you being a good guy since that has bothered you for so long. Look at it from the positive side, you guys became good friends.

Best regards,
Glenn B

 

[HerpVenue]

You said he was lying because he said it would not get much bigger than your 3 1/2 foot ball python.

If you had a ball python with you....and I was selling a dummerills .....I would have said the same thing.

Your 3 1/2 foot ball python still has a lot of room to grow. And once fully grown.....the dummerils would not be much bigger than your ball python.


I think you might be a little too paranoid (no offense)


I have owned only two dums in my life.
They were adults.
The female was at 4.75 feet
the male around 4 feet.

 

[XzSaGezX]

It wasnt strictly about him but in general people lying and saying whatever they had to to make a few dollars.

 

[meretseger]

I got it the other way around

I just bought a Borneo blood python, and the guy said it could get over 8 feet. I've found out that the average size for the subspecies is 4 feet. I guess it's always better to overestimate though!

Erin B.

 

[bpc]

I have a friend that has a 7-8 foot dumeril, that probably weighs 50-60 pounds. Now I have seen a 6 foot ball and it might have weighed 15 pounds. I really don't think these two snakes are in the same class. I think even looking at AVERAGE size the dumeril is going to have double the mass of the ball.