Wild Wild West - Part 2

[crotalusadamanteus]

LOL Well, you been right lots of times before. We'll have to wait and see.

 

[Chameleon Company]

Who knows, maybe it will bring the site closer to disagreement with civility. An overwhelming problem with the site has been the flame wars that erupt because some folks just can't handle dissenting opinions, often started with a cheap snipe post. It also is the biggest complaint voiced by those who admit a reason for posting less frequently then they would want to. Maybe a few here can actually curb their first instinct to call someone an a$$hole, scumbag, liar, etc etc, whose opinion they take exception to. Rich, does this new critique system come with a hair-trigger?

Just as warning points, karma, trader rating, etc, I think that the points accumulated by this peer review system should be displayed as well.

If may create more problems than it solves, or bear too much evidence to the "law of unintended circumstances", as voiced by a few. If so, we're all still volunteers here, albeit with a minimal financial investment, and anyone can walk.

Thank you for the better job with the softer pastels today. Not having to sit for five minutes as I move away from the computer now, lest I fall over furniture

 

[joepythons]

points

You have FARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR more faith in your fellow man than do I.

I agree as some of the members here have false reasons to constantly harass others.Perfect example i have a certain person whom keeps going back into a month old thread and gives me negative karma points.I was ignoring his little game until i read about this new option "booting" others out.I guess time will tell if this option works out or causes more problems.

 

[Scott Ashton]

Come on Wes. You sound like the end of the world is coming. Impending doom or something. You really think that this change will actually empower people that much?

It is my friend - it is.

'Doomsday Clock' moved closer to midnight amid fears of nuclear, environmental disaster

By Raphael G. Satter , Associated Press
Eagle-Tribune


LONDON - The world is nudging closer to nuclear or environmental apocalypse, a group of prominent scientists warned yesterday as it pushed the hand of its symbolic Doomsday Clock closer to midnight.

The clock, which was set two minutes forward to 11:55, represents the likelihood of a global cataclysm. Its ticks have given the clock's keepers a chance to speak out on the dangers they see threatening Earth.

 

[joepythons]

thanks

Well its nice to know that their are still some good people left on this site .I Thank You

 

[Wilomn]

Actually Joe, there are quite a few good people on this site.

Even so though, I suspect that some of them will be tempted to ding someone who dings one of thier frineds when they may not ordinarily do anything at all.

It's not that they'll be being dishonest, simply that when a friend is attacked it is fairly normal to want to help that person out. With the current system you can approve or disapprove of a post and/or post your opinion on it, BUT, that takes some effort. Simply zapping the guy who zapped the guy you like will be too simple. And, in all honesty, who wouldn't want to help out a friend?

Now, extrapolate that from friends helping eachother out to scumbags causing trouble. Sure sure, they'll be caught eventually. But the zings and dings they did give are there forever, at least as far as I understand the Inquisition to come. Go a tad further and it they're smooth, as some no doubt will be, they may not get caught at all or at least not for quite some time, especially if there is a group working in unison.

Don't forget this key bit either, it can be reasonably argued that almost any post is unnecessarily rough, or has name calling in it, or, in a particularly heated exchange, that someone is being needlessly targeted. Without a rule, or law; without something more than a rough guideline, those who wish to will be able to agrue their point sufficiently that ALMOST anything that is not an outright violation of the "guidelines" here will go. How can it be otherwise?

It won't be moderated, it'll be peer review. Peers don't always see eye to eye.

It has been mentioned that some members are quite rude in the posts they make. Suppose that rudeness is not only intentional but serves a purpose that is simply beyond the ken of some? There are some who think that ANY name calling is uncalled for. There are also those who have differing definitions of rudeness and what constitutes namecalling.

If I'm calling a lying theif a scumbag, should I be zapped for being honest? If someone says that it is absolutely stupid to keep rainbow boas at 100F and they are fools for doing so, should they be dinged? I would say no, it's simple honest truth. Others would say that I was wrong, zap me, or whomever made the statement, and there you are, points with no recourse.

Let that happen often enough and you're faced with one of the 2 choices I gave earlier.

To be clear, this is NOT about me. I have no intention of changing. I will continue to do as I have done, staying within what I understand to be the "guidelines" of this site and, furthermore, will not participate in this inquisition because, shudder at the thought, those who think differently than I, are entirely entititled to those thoughts.

I will continue to use karma to express my approval or non-approval of posts and my posts to be more expansive on my feelings.

I will be interesing, as has been said, and I am looking forward to seeing what does happen, but I won't be stopping to look for the missing body parts like some do at accidents or take potshots at those who think otherwise than I from the saftey of a system I do not agree with.

 

[Wolfy-hound]

I think that the new system might work out(after the initial flurry). If you feel someone is a "lying thief" you can say taht the person has lied "Provide example" and has stolen XX"Provide proof" as opposed to simply saying "You scumbag". Maybe it will lead to more polite posting? There is that adage that a armed society is a polite society.
I can see the 'ripple effect' happening too. One person says "Boo" to someone. 2nd person gives 1st person a warning point. 1st person gives 2 person a warning point for giving HIM a warning point for 'no reason' and then tells his friends. The friends give 2nd person warning points for 'being a poohead' to their friend. 2nd person gives THEM warning points for giving HIM warning points for no reason... etc etc. But you know.. eventually it should wind down. Unless it escalates.
I think that people who have consistantly jumped into a thread to bash someone they have a personal issue with will get dinged a lot or learn to be more subtle.
People who post on a thread "Should I keep my boa at 200F?" should be told "No. You'll kill your boa. The appropiate temp is xxF" they don't need a post saying "You dumb poo head jerk! You just want to kill all animals!" See the subtle idea? Are they stupid? Probaly. But this way if someone runs off at them in a rude way, they risk getting a ding for being rude and offensive and cursing. (I'm assuming in real life they would use foul language not poo-head)
I dunno what level I'm at, and I haven't figured out what level I'd have to be at to vote points or whatever. I'm not all that worried. I think I have one bad karma point, from a political thread, that I knew better than to bother posting on. Nothing good ever comes from discussing religion or politics. If people want to bash me for having an opinion different from them, I guess it'll happen. Until then, I won't worry over it. If I really dislike the system and the way it gets used, I'll just not visit this site. It's not rocket science. It's the internet. I like this site, and I like the BOI.
I think Rich has been doing a bang-up job, and there is nothing wrong with trying something different. Oh, and I HATE change, but it's not my site, so I will probaly hang back, taste it a few times to decide if I like it or not. The colors thing had people screaming at the top of their lungs. Why? It's just colors on a site. Don't visit if its that big a deal. I REALLY loved the one comment of "It looks like someone ate a box of crayons and threw up on the screen". That made me laugh so hard.
I've enjoyed the site so far, and hope to continue enjoying it.
Wolfy
Theresa

 

[WebSlave]

I think you all are forgetting one LITLE TINY detail here. How many members here are going to be willing to spend the money necessary JUST to be able to ding someone else with warning points? How many bad guys and their buds are going to be willing to do something like that? Hmm?

Or did you all forget that this is NOT going to be thrown open for EVERYONE to utilize?

 

[crotalusadamanteus]

I can see all of your points. Especially the friends taking up for friends part. It is human in nature to do so, I agree.
I think people seriously misunderstand, or misuse. the term "friend" also. "Friend" does not warrant immediate back up. In some cases, they are actually wrong. And as a "friend" it's more a responsibility to point out that wrong instead of backing them up for it. Probably why I don't have too many of them. It matters not to me, I'll let a friend have it quicker than most, simply because they are a friend. I feel obligated to do so. But than again, I been called weird a time or two.

I think you all are forgetting one LITLE TINY detail here. How many members here are going to be willing to spend the money necessary JUST to be able to ding someone else with warning points? How many bad guys and their buds are going to be willing to do something like that? Hmm?

There's that too.

 

[Clay Davenport]

But you know.. eventually it should wind down. Unless it escalates.

I think that pretty much sums up the entire duscussion.

You could replace virtually every post on this thread with those two sentences because that's really all that's left. The how, when, and why are long past being relevant. All that's left are the effects and they remain to be seen.

 

[Griz]

Perfect example i have a certain person whom keeps going back into a month old thread and gives me negative karma points.

Forgive me Joe as I did not realize there was a statute of limitations on stupidity.....

I was ignoring his little game until i read about this new option "booting" others out.I guess time will tell if this option works out or causes more problems.

Given that you already have 2 bad guys threads and countless people who think ill of you, I would say your a much bigger target, literally and figuratively, then I.

Griz

 

[christopher66]

I think you all are forgetting one LITLE TINY detail here. How many members here are going to be willing to spend the money necessary JUST to be able to ding someone else with warning points? How many bad guys and their buds are going to be willing to do something like that? Hmm?

Or did you all forget that this is NOT going to be thrown open for EVERYONE to utilize?

Has any of the actual monetary figures been specified yet ?And what if one has allready paid to be a participant on the BOI ?
Will the one who has paid have to pay again the full amount ,or the difference of decided amount to be a participate in the new world order ?

 

[Lucille]

Forgive me Joe as I did not realize there was a statute of limitations on stupidity.....

Bob,

You and I have had disagreements. One in particular left a lasting impression: whenever I think of the subject, I now also consider your point of view.

Perhaps there is a place for disagreeing, or if need be, whomping on a person, once, and then leaving room and time for growth?

 

[Griz]

Bob,

You and I have had disagreements. One in particular left a lasting impression: whenever I think of the subject, I now also consider your point of view.

Perhaps there is a place for disagreeing, or if need be, whomping on a person, once, and then leaving room and time for growth?

Lucille, have you ever seen the Butterfinger commercial where Bart attached an electric cord to the candy bar? Homer keeps coming back to the candy bar over and over again despite the shock?

Joe won't learn because Joe does not care. It's as simple as that and so long as he keeps reaching for the Butterfinger, then I will be there to make sure it has a little zip to it.

Trust me Lucille, if you knew even half of what I know about this individual, who would probably help hold the cord too. But I digress.....

Griz

 

[Lucille]

Lucille, have you ever seen the Butterfinger commercial

I watch maybe a couple of hours of TV a year. Have not seen the commercial.

I know that when I do my most precious education, that of my children, I do my best to try to let them use what I have taught them. I am not arguing with you, I am just presenting a different point of view; there are those and I know they exist who are resistent to change, but surely there are some who use criticism to make themselves better? I know they exist because I honestly evaluated my stance when you criticized it during one of our debates.

 

[joepythons]

lol

Forgive me Joe as I did not realize there was a statute of limitations on stupidity.....



Given that you already have 2 bad guys threads and countless people who think ill of you, I would say your a much bigger target, literally and figuratively, then I.

Griz

Well Bob i wondered how long it would be before you revealed your true self! Since i refuse to lower myself to your level i will end it here.

 

[Lucille]

Well Bob i wondered how long it would be before you revealed your true self! Since i refuse to lower myself to your level i will end it here.

See, this is what I'm talking about. Joe, how could anyone have a fruitful conversation after a post like this?



If you are kicking around a scammer as retribution for a specific action, that's fine; but perhaps a little courtesy otherwise would give room for change?

 

[joepythons]

See, this is what I'm talking about. Joe, how could anyone have a fruitful conversation after a post like this?



If you are kicking around a scammer as retribution for a specific action, that's fine; but perhaps a little courtesy otherwise would give room for change?

Lucille,i am sorry about the last sentence.I am just fed up with Bob spreading his lies about me.The only truth he has ever said that is true is this,yes i have 2 threads involving myself here.The first one was a kid way back that killed a snake then tried to blame me.Then the second thread was started because i crossed 2 people SPJ was having problems with.There are 0 threads anywhere showing i truly ripped off someone but Bob and his sidekicks still try to make me look bad.I never mentioned a name of whom was giving me negative karma,but Bob felt a need to post his comments.When someone talks to me in a civil manner i return the same,as i am doing now with yourself.

 

[Chameleon Company]

Joe and others,
A few of us have our more frequent detractors, with the monthly dings etc. I think that it is to be expected in any system which allows peer feedback, whether it be karma, the "new world order", or just general posting. Do we not all realize that when both parties remain antagonistic in any of those formats, things will only prolong in a negative way? Been there, done that. I am inclined to say that the new system will help in at least making folks think twice before they hit "post", and even if only that happens, then this corner of the world is a better place. Whatever the motivation, obviously someone has to step back first, and as they say, "let the water run off their back". Let that person be the better man or woman!

On another note, I have seen some say "Well, I don't like the sounds of this, and I won't change anyway .....", focusing only on the cons while seeming oblivious to the pros. There's not a poster here who can't get better at presenting themselves in this format, but if change is not a part of your menu, then suit yourself. As they say "You do not stay the same ....... you either get better or you get worse."

 

[WebSlave]

Has any of the actual monetary figures been specified yet ?And what if one has allready paid to be a participant on the BOI ?
Will the one who has paid have to pay again the full amount ,or the difference of decided amount to be a participate in the new world order ?

The way this is going to work is that the ability to assess warning points will be tied to the already existing membership levels. If you are already a Benefactor or Endowment level member then this ability will be provided with that membership level at no additional cost, once it is implemented. However, if you are a Contributor level member or a regular registered member (no paid level membership) then yes, if you wish to have this capability of being able to assess warning points, then you will have to become one of those two higher levels or membership in order to do so.

I believe this will fairly control who will have access to this "power", by making the bar high enough that people will not be tempted to use it frivolously. And to those of you who believe you can make a difference here, then there will be your doorway.

BTW, I just got word back from my programmer, and the last few issues I asked about have been taken care of. But bear in mind that only minimal testing was done, so there is always the possibility of problems to crop up upon initial implementation. Plus I still have to allocate a few brain cells to the actual warning points and levels.

In any event, I expect I will have this all wrapped up by this weekend. So let's figure on this being implemented at HIGH NOON EST, on Sunday, 01/21/07.