Bad Guy William Gangemi (at repticon)

[Mike Schultz]

Wait hold on. Taking an animal to the vet... is BAD? What planet are you living on?

Well it sounds like the animal was just fine besides a few runny stools (fairly normal after a stressful event like a show and a new home) and then started vomiting and died very shortly after the vet injected it with god knows what (protein shots??). I would be curious WTF the vet did as well.

 

[Vorlon1]

Being a blue tongue "guy" I can tell you that hundreds of wild caught ones come in from the south pacific islands. Some are in great shape others, not so much.
Last year I know of a pet store animal purchased in Southern California that was "chubby". Two weeks later she had 8 babies. That was a good buy.

Buying at shows is good if you know the right questions to ask.
Who bred it? Where did it come from? How long have you had it? What if it dies?

A reptile show is similar to a swap meet. Not a place I would expect to find deal on a real "Coach" handbag. But you can buy hand made products made by local artisans that may be of good quality. Buy from breeders not wholesalers....

 

[Ed Clark]

I have offered replacement animals to both parties. That’s more then fair. I have dealt with huge numbers of skinks and believe me I would never have an emaciated blue tongue on my table not to mention I have only ever even encountered but one skinny blue tongue. They basically are fat garbage disposals. That being said someone taking there animal to a vet them giving it injections and worming medicine and god only knows what else makes me not interested in replacing the animal. That essentially sounds like “voiding” it’s warranty. Because as we all know most quack vets will dose reptiles with baytril and causes kidney failure. Last but not least, all animals at the show are vet checked. If any seem sick or lethargic they are not allowed to be sold and are not cleared by the vet. Thanks, sorry for all this but this is the reality of this situation.

William, using a defense that the skinks were vet checked is ridicules, or maybe not? please post the paperwork from the vet who examined your skinks.

 

[Vithaxton]

I know theres a lot of people complaining about quack vets killing reptiles but I've been able to find tons of reptile vets that know what they're doing. I always question them first just to make sure they know their stuff but every reptile vet that I've stumbled upon in my area has been amazing. Believe it or not reptile vets do study reptiles before they start practicing on them lol And it seems that since competition in the vet field has gone up theres more and more exotic vets that are actually good. I take in so many rescues that have such advanced problems they have to see vets and without those guys knowledge some of those animals wouldn't have made it. So "voiding a warranty" by seeing a vet is complete bull.

 

[Vithaxton]

I know theres a lot of people complaining about quack vets killing reptiles but I've been able to find tons of reptile vets that know what they're doing. I always question them first just to make sure they know their stuff but every reptile vet that I've stumbled upon in my area has been amazing. Believe it or not reptile vets do study reptiles before they start practicing on them lol And it seems that since competition in the vet field has gone up theres more and more exotic vets that are actually good. I take in so many rescues that have such advanced problems they have to see vets and without those guys knowledge some of those animals wouldn't have made it. So "voiding a warranty" by seeing a vet is complete bull.

And I did say REPTILE vet not regular vet. There is a difference. Normal vets usually take one look at a reptile and either put them on antibiotics or ivermectin and both can be fatal. Especially if they don't know how to does them properly. Reptile and Exotic vets know their stuff.

 

[Black Adder]

And I did say REPTILE vet not regular vet. There is a difference. Normal vets usually take one look at a reptile and either put them on antibiotics or ivermectin and both can be fatal. Especially if they don't know how to does them properly. Reptile and Exotic vets know their stuff.

Exactly!
I have my vets for my Bengal and Savannah cats and then I have my vet for my snakes, I would definitely not cross the pair with animals...lol.

I trust both of them with the lives of my animals but you could never mix them up at all, or woe betide you for sure.

I thought I had heard most of the bs excuses until I read that "taking your animal to a vet voids any warranty" WTH??

Still be nice to see some actual proof from the two buyers of the skinks that died though

 

[JCCS]

Finding good reptile vets in the rural south, where many of this company's shows are located is a bit harder than you guys might realize. I was lucky enough to have a couple good ones in my time, but yeah, even "reptile" vets down here are suspect until proven otherwise. And as mentioned, the "vet check" done at shows is a complete joke and waste of time done as a formality. They do not inspect animals any further than glancing at them.

 

[snakesareawesome]

The two people being merged into one thread is a little confusing. Are the facts that two separate people bought skinks which quickly died from William at the same reptile show?

I ask because one skink dying here and another dying at a different time would be far less of an implication of pre-existing disease than two dying on two separate people who purchased at the same show.

Even still, I would not label it as a bad guy post. Living animals sometimes seem fine, then die and the stress of changing conditions could certainly increase those odds. If this had happened to me, I probably would have asked for store credit and called it a day.

 

[snakesareawesome]

Forgot to add, I certainly think William would be entitled to a copy of the vet report, too. It's unclear to me if that was provided to him.

 

[Jikvt]

New England Reptile Expo this weekend

I made a last-minute decision yesterday to buy a fat tail gecko from the table of William Gangemi. They was doing fine yesterday, temperature and humidity was good, and water and food were available. I checked on in this morning and all seemed good. He had obviously eaten and messed so I cleaned his house before I went to work, gave him fresh water and made sure there was food and that the temperature and humidity were good.

I came home from work tonight and the gecko I bought yesterday was just about dead. Only its tail was twitching and it looked like it was dehydrated. I tried giving it some water with an eyedropper and it didn't work. He died shortly after. I had no contact info for the seller but I explained what happened in a review of the service through Square since I had paid using my debit card. I would love to at least hear back from them but I'm not convinced that I will. This is all very frustrating and I don't think I would ever buy another gecko at an expo.

 

[dishay]

Apologies for being absent on this thread. I only just received an email telling me there were new replies. I did receive paperwork, but I believe it got thrown away in a recent deep-clean. I have contacted my vet for another copy and will post it as soon as possible. As for William’s claim that he offered replacement animals to both parties: unless I somehow missed a direct message or other form of contact, that is false. I currently have no messages in my FaunaClassifieds mailbox and William does not have my email and thus cannot contact me that way. I do admit that I am new to reptile keeping. ReptiCon was my first exposure to reptile expos of any kind. I don’t know how to provide proof that my animal did indeed die. I did not take pictures or video of him in his death throes. I did make a grave error by purchasing my skink without getting a business card or anything from William, as well as not writing down his name or information. I only got his name off of my credit card purchase history after my animal died. I completely understand that people are skeptical of my claim as I haven’t provided proof, so I promise I will have my vet paperwork up as soon as I get a copy. I only have a few pictures of him and most are a little too close to see his body, but I will post what I have. Thank you for the replies, both supportive and skeptical. I now have a crested gecko who is doing swimmingly!

 

[Vorlon1]

James, I believe your report. But I think a little advice might help you and others.
With the common use of cell phones and cell phone cameras. I would begin shooting pics the time I bought the animal, when I got it home, and every time I went to check on the animal.

I am telling you this from experience. I sell reptiles. A client bought a baby snake that didn't eat right away. The client sent me pics and I returned pics of how to get it to eat. It took over 6 weeks, but it ate. He still sends me updates via text message.

Going forward, a picture that you took when you first set the gecko up, and then one less than 48 hours later of it near death would be powerful evidence. You may also choose to shoot short videos and post them on youtube. When you do videos you can talk while shooting and give details of what you see.

Just a thought for any person that buys any animal...

 

[Jikvt]

Since posting, I have heard from William. He was very prompt and apologetic, and I believe he was quite sincere. I do not hold him responsible for what happened to my gecko. I certainly don't think was to blame. If I could, I would delete my original posting. I do not think this experience has completely turned me off from attending other reptile Expos. I did have a great day and I actually look forward to the next one. I'm going to consider this a learning experience and try to be better prepared in the future. I think William for his prompt reply to my message on Square. You did have a great selection at the Expo and I look forward to visiting your table at the next one. I apologize for speaking out in haste earlier, but I was upset at the time and you were probably the easiest target. I am sorry for that.

 

[Snake-Queen]

Why exactly do you think he is not responsible for the death?

 

[Jikvt]

I think many things contributed. The stress of the expo. The stress of moving to a new home. I talked to my brother and we both remember hearing the gecko make a sound like he was sneezing, so he could have been sick. It's not fair to blame these all on one person.

 

[meowmeowkazoo]

Since posting, I have heard from William. He was very prompt and apologetic, and I believe he was quite sincere. I do not hold him responsible for what happened to my gecko. I certainly don't think was to blame. If I could, I would delete my original posting. I do not think this experience has completely turned me off from attending other reptile Expos. I did have a great day and I actually look forward to the next one. I'm going to consider this a learning experience and try to be better prepared in the future. I think William for his prompt reply to my message on Square. You did have a great selection at the Expo and I look forward to visiting your table at the next one. I apologize for speaking out in haste earlier, but I was upset at the time and you were probably the easiest target. I am sorry for that.

This abrupt and extremely apologetic post is kind of suspicious, tbh. What exactly did William say or offer you that prompted you to practically fall over yourself apologizing? If the gecko was sick, that is the seller's fault.

 

[dishay]

Clarifications

I re-read this thread and wanted to clarify some things about my post:

My skink started vomiting before I took him to the vet. I always take new animals, reptile or otherwise, to the vet when I first get them. I took him to the only reptile vet anywhere near me, Dr. James Talbott. He told me blue tongues were some of his favorite reptiles and sent me home with the Reptiles Magazine caresheet (which I had already read in detail about a hundred times before the visit).

The dewormer and protein mix he gave my skink were not actual injections. They were given orally with a syringe. The protein mix was just a sort of nutrient powder mixed with water to try and boost my skink’s appetite. It didn’t work, and the skink vomited it all up that night.

I am headed to the vet at 3:30 today to get the paperwork. Admittedly, this was my first time going to this particular vet and you can’t really be sure that a new vet, particularly an exotic one, is perfect. However, he did specialize in reptiles and I think the only thing he could have possibly done to the skink to harm it was the dewormer. I’m not sure exactly what it was, but the paperwork will likely tell me. He did not give the skink antibiotics or a shot or anything.

I attached the only good photos of my skink I have left, as I deleted most of them in grief after he died (stupid!). Some quick notes: in the first photo he was on the (clean) hardwood floor for about five minutes total because I was seeing if maybe he would eat if he was out of his enclosure (silly I know, but I was trying). The raspberry is there because pieces of (clean, organic) raspberry was the only food he ever showed interest in. I thought something sweet might get him interested in food. They were not a staple and he only ever ate one (before he vomited the first time). In the second photo, he is on my friend’s shoulder, where he remained for about 30 seconds. I had her wash her hands with antibacterial soap before and after touching him. I recognize now that handling him at all was a mistake, but I strongly believe that nothing I did could have caused him to die that quickly because, as William himself said, blue tongues are hardy.

 

[dishay]

Good God, I forgot to actually link the photos. Sorry. https://imgur.com/a/D1YG9

 

[Lucille]

Since posting, I have heard from William. He was very prompt and apologetic, and I believe he was quite sincere.

Why don't you post this conversation between the two of you that led to your epiphany?

 

[Snake-Queen]

Why don't you post this conversation between the two of you that led to your epiphany?

I agree.
Something sounds fishy.

You may have heard it cough?