Inquiry William Wohlers?

[dustinNMpythons]

William Wohlers
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9/08/14
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To: Dustin B.
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And just because you have "real world experience" and can produce a few morph animals doesnt mean you understand genetics and probability Dustin. Do a little more research on genetics and you will see that you are blatantly wrong my friend, and I am in fact 100% right. Like I said before too stop being so hot headed and you will go further in relationships with people. I'm trying to help you when I dont have to Dustin. Don't piss in your cheerios my friend.
Will


William Wohlers
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5:25 PM
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To: Dustin B.
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Youre about as dumb as they come when it comes to reptiles my friend. First of all that clutch could be from any snake, where are the pics of the female breeding and the female laying? As far as the genetics, yeah when you calculate it in a punnet square it looks like 50% of the entire clutch will be visual, but the odds and probability are calculated for every egg individually. I have a degree in this, you are just spouting out bullshit you have read elsewhere, bullshit you dont understand to begin with lol. Go ask your buddies on the forums to explain it to you, I bet you $100 you figure out Im right. Here is a link that proves you are wrong as wrong can be. I would link to some scientific journals but I know they would be out of your league

http://www.arbreptiles.com/genetics101.shtml

go to the paragraph right below the square for albino X het breeding, here is the paragraph in case your little brain cant find it

"Remember though, the Punnett square only provides the statistical possibilities. You have to have a large sample group for the statistics to play out properly. This means that when you're only producing a single clutch you could produce four albinos or four hets just as easily. In the second example, 50% of the offspring are shown to be albino. What this means basically is that each individual egg has a 50/50 chance of being an albino. If that was a four egg clutch and the first two hatched out with normal coloration it does not automatically mean that the other two will be albinos."



You sound uneducated and a little redneck when you argue points you have no clue about Dustin lol. I dont give a shit you opened a thread on me. Like I said I will recover from any crap and lies you post, who is Dustin Brown ? lol no one knows and know one cares. Sad thing is I was going to help you out and give you the benefit of the doubt Dustin, all you had to do was show me some sort of proof and would have fixed whatever I needed to. Couldnt come up with proof so you try and tarnish my reputation. Also I dont sell bad hets. I have been selling on kingsnake for over ten years and at shows for longer than that. You are the only 2 people I have ever had a problem with, and the thing is I didnt produce those animals. If they were mine then there would have never been an issue. She is still a het though, and I wish you better luck next year. Good luck on that education too BTW wish we could have worked something out.
Will

William Wohlers
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5:50 PM
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To: Dustin B.
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I have caught you in numerous lies Dustin. I will not addressing you or your fauna thread any longer, Im done with your lies and the headache around you. Oh no you put a negative trader rating on my name! Oh no and you posted links in all my rodent threads oh no how will I ever recover? Youre a moron if you think you could possibly hurt my name. Your name is god on fauna all with your 2 good guy posts lol. No one gives a shit about you. I have about ten trade emails just since you posted that crap. People dont believe you, they shouldnt all you do it lie. Good luck with that and good luck talking to the authorities. Have a nice life and a great season next year. And to think I was actually going to send you something out of the goodness of my heart. Now stop emailing me, any further emails will be taken as harassment and I will take the proper steps to make sure that wouldnt be done to other people.

 

[dustinNMpythons]

thats all our emails that I had, sorry I don't have my replies everytime he responded the other half of the email was cut off. I've done business through this community for years and never had serious issues with anyone. If it was a simple mistake it could have been fixed but he never acted like it was going to get fixed, I was just always wrong.

 

[wohlerswi]

I told you numerous times Dustin that I will take care of it, just send me some pics. I didnt even say you had to make 100% proof because you cant. I just asked for some pics and I would take care of it. You lie constantly Dustin. I have the email stll from you that states you BRED her to YOUR male, not your friends. If you are going to post all my emails then you need to post yours too because most of that doesnt make any sense without the original emails. Just go to your "sent" folder. Your a hot head Dustin. I was going to help you out but maybe this will turn out to be a lesson for you. Treat people better, and give them a chance to do as they say and maybe things will turn out better for you. The only thing I cant saying you were wrong about was your messed up lack of understanding with genetics. I hope she still turns out to be a het Dustin. I liked you at one point, and appreciate all my customers. I wish things could have been settled differently and I hope she turns out to be a het and you get all kinds of cool stuff next year. Im done with the arguing and the pissing match. It was never my intention to scam you, and like I said Ive recieved many things from Josh and they all turned out to be what they were suppose to. I have faith things will turn out better for you, and I hope they do.

Lucy you have never done business with me so butt out. Making comments on how paypal makes a living is derailing this thread that you have no business responding to in the first place.

Will

 

[dustinNMpythons]

I've never lied, post the email then and I'll tell you if its dated too far back its because I had intended on breeding him. I posted every email I have feel free to post any others but be prepared to back it through emailing to admin. I'll gladly print screen or forward these to anyone that wants to see a hard copy.

 

[dustinNMpythons]

But you can't keep calling me a liar when I've never lied to you

 

[wohlerswi]

You cant keep calling me a scammer then because I never scammed you. I feel as if you have lied numerous times. Now lets leave it at that. Ill look for the email you sent me stating you bred her to your male and she already ovulated, maybe you mistyped but you said she already bred your male and ovulated. Like I said bro I wish we could have worked it out. I think maybe both of our egos got in the way and if you really want to resolve this then email me but until then Good luck man
Will

 

[dustinNMpythons]

At this point I'm not even calling you a scammer if I ever have. I've been heated at times because it was a lot of money which I wish you'd still make it right but you've been calling me a liar ever since I told you she didn't prove out. I even stated in one of my emails that she could have just not proved out due to odds but its such a small percent chance that I don't want to risk years of breeding over it. She's already failed to prove twice.

 

[Lucille]

Lucy you have never done business with me so butt out. Making comments on how paypal makes a living is derailing this thread that you have no business responding to in the first place.

Will

All readers can participate in and comment upon BOI threads. It says something about you that you would try to convince customers to use a method that not only takes many from Paypal's business, but more important, if something goes wrong, they cannot use Paypal's protections if they use that payment choice. Perhaps that was your intent?

 

[wohlerswi]

And post one email where I stated I wasnt going to make it right? I just asked for some sort of proof Dustin. You would have done the same right? Why would I ask for proof if I knew she wasnt a het or I intended on scamming you to begin with? You have called me a scammer several times, and state I sell bad hets. You linked this link to all my ads, you are trying to pin me out as a bad guy and when have I ever been anything but good to you? As of your emails today and you posting all this BOI crap I was still waiting on you to get me those pics which you said you would. I thought thats where we were till you took it here? You say she could still be a het in one email when you calmed down some, but every other email you say she isnt a het. You flip flop lke crazy man. I know $1600 is a lot of money, but like Ive said many times before if I was a bad man with ill intent then why would stay in contact with you? Why would I be honest with you about the clutch she layed for me? What wouldnt I be like Oh yeah everything she produced was a dreamcicle? Doesnt make sense bud
Will

 

[nickolasanastasiou]

The probability as calculated is to be applied as chance of a given result per instance (egg/neonate). Until one has a large enough sample size, arguing heavily based on one clutch becomes irrelevant. Since this is not a clutch from a leatherback sea turtle, keep the predictions conservative (but feel free to remain skeptical, as that is healthy for self-protection). Many of us have had exceptional clutches. We think it is great when it goes in our favor and we think it is suspicious when it does not, but both scenarios can be completely legitimate, so it is best to keep that in mind.

That said, the person/breeder who is supposed to have directly produced the female from his/her collection pairing that is currently being described as possibly questionable should be gotten in touch with by both parties to weigh in meaningfully as to her status and identity based directly on the math from the known/verifiable parents. Get this done.

 

[wohlerswi]

Lucy no my intent was that I originally had het priced at $2200 and after having her a little while dustin asked if I would do $1600. I said yes if he could send the money as a gift so I dont take an even bigger hit on her. He said he wouldnt send it that way but would cover all my fees. That was the end of the "gift" conversation. You need to get informed before you go trying to point fingers, and no not everyone can respond if they derail threads. Thats all you are doing at this point and will be reported to a moderator. mind your own business
Will

 

[Applepretzel]

I just wanted to chime in here - I bought the normal "double het" sister to Dustin's vanilla. I bred her to a male who was sold to me as a double het dreamsicle. This should've given me a 25% chance of some sort of visual. All 6 were normals. I contacted Will, very frustrated at the time, and he never responded. I feel that says a lot in itself.

I realize that my problem could have been with the male (though with all these other reports popping up, I rather doubt it), so I will be breeding her to a pied 66% het lavender from Kyle Hoffman as soon as he's of size. If there are no pieds produced I will be giving her up as a normal.

I attached photos of my breeding and the resulting hatchlings.

 

[wohlerswi]

thanks Nick

Thanks Nick for your insight. We both have unfortunately been trying to get in touch with him since Dustin first contacted me. I think he is pretty much gone at this point sadly because he could at least confirm that I am telling the truth as was told by me.
Will

 

[Lucille]

Lucy no my intent was that I originally had het priced at $2200 and after having her a little while dustin asked if I would do $1600. I said yes if he could send the money as a gift so I dont take an even bigger hit on her. He said he wouldnt send it that way but would cover all my fees. That was the end of the "gift" conversation. You need to get informed before you go trying to point fingers, and no not everyone can respond if they derail threads. Thats all you are doing at this point and will be reported to a moderator. mind your own business
Will

Asking a business payment to be sent as a gift is unethical. You are unethical for doing so. I'm wondering if you do so not only to cheap out, but to deprive your customers of Paypal protection. Do you do this all the time?

 

[wohlerswi]

Ashley I never recieved an email from you. Please email me again!

 

[dustinNMpythons]

I have no contact with this breeder, I tried to find contact info on him everywhere. I mean I've spent days online looking for a way to contact him and know for sure. It would have alleviated this whole thing if I or Will would have contacted him in the beginning. I asked him to and he said he couldn't get ahold of him.

 

[wohlerswi]

Lucy butt out and grow up Do you know how many things get sent as gift in paypal? Paypal will not protect customers who purchase live animals anyway so you think thats my reason? Ive told you numerous times to quit trying to derail this thread. The moderators have already been made aware. You need to quit making slanderous assumptions before I take further action.
Will

 

[dustinNMpythons]

Thanks Ashley for coming on here to give your results as well.

 

[nickolasanastasiou]

Thanks Nick for your insight. We both have unfortunately been trying to get in touch with him since Dustin first contacted me. I think he is pretty much gone at this point sadly because he could at least confirm that I am telling the truth as was told by me.
Will

Will, make no mistake. I would not be thanking me on this nor am I making any judgments against or in favor of any party here. I am only trying to clarify how that is supposed to be purely applied as the basis of a genetic argument and that the fellow who produced her would need to be consulted for verification into the lack of a visual results (which is drawing this all into question). With the clarification or reiteration regarding the way to view the probability involved, not being able to contact the breeder is leaving you pretty much where you were and nobody has benefited from what I said outside of the angle of approach for understanding the situation from the perspective of independent genetic probabilities and their independent results (no more than getting a history of losing lottery tickets or coin flips means we are "due" wins on subsequent tickets or flips; it just does not work that way).

 

[Lucille]

You need to quit making slanderous assumptions before I take further action.
Will

Bring it. The way you act in a business transaction includes payments, and asking for a gift payment when it is a business transaction is unethical in my opinion.


Anyone who wants to do business with Will, this is how he talks to customers when there are issues with a transaction:

William Wohlers
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5:25 PM
[Keep this message at the top of your inbox]
To: Dustin B.
[email protected]
Youre about as dumb as they come when it comes to reptiles my friend.

You sound uneducated and a little redneck when you argue points you have no clue about Dustin lol. I dont give a shit you opened a thread on me. Like I said I will recover from any crap and lies you post, who is Dustin Brown ? lol no one knows and know one cares.