Wobbles

[John E Dove]

What would cause a normal Ball to have wobbles symptoms like those reported in many Spider Balls?
Reportedly the Ball in question shows these symptoms most severely when in warmer temps and tends to stay at the cool end of it's enclosure (75F) most of the time. When in the cooler area the wobbles are still there but are less severe.

 

[Mooing Tricycle]

Im not sure whether it is true or not, but i have "heard" of normals from spider clutches wobbling as well. Not sure how accurate that is, as ive never personally seen one, but i wonder if this might have been a sibling to a spider clutch? or no?

 

[John E Dove]

The owner and I had the same thought but given the fact they paid the price of a normal we have to wonder.
Don't most BP Sipder producers sell clutch mate as hets with higher pricing?

 

[Mooing Tricycle]

The owner and I had the same thought but given the fact they paid the price of a normal we have to wonder.
Don't most BP Sipder producers sell clutch mate as hets with higher pricing?

Spiders are "co dom"(Dominant really, as far as im aware) So they are either spider, or not. If they arent, they sometimes are sold as "spider sibling" but it dosnt mean anything. So maaaybe?

 

[John E Dove]

Ahhh, thank you for that info. I was not aware of that aspect.

 

[Clay Davenport]

There has been no substantiated case of a normal spider sibling displaying the wobble of a spider and I am highly skeptical that it has ever truly occurred.
Occasionally some balls when very young haven't developed the muscle tone yet and jerk a little when highly alert, but that goes away quickly.

Before one could claim a normal wobbled like a spider, you would have to be familiar with the condition in spiders to make the comparison. Even then there are other things that could cause such symptoms. Just as there are conditions that cause star gazing that aren't IBD.
The snake could have been overheated at some point resulting in brain damage that reduced motor control. A neurological problem such as infection could cause it as well.
The thing with spiders is the condition is well known to be present sometimes right from the egg and other times it develops with no other potential factors being present.
Without knowing the snake in question's history from birth, there's no way to attribute a lack of fine motor control to a congenital defect present at birth.

 

[Ed Clark]

Its possible for a normal out of a spider breeding to display head wobble or tremors.

I have seen it in crosses made with spiders, all spiders display this behavior at some time or another. it can not be bred out of spiders.

 

[John E Dove]

The snake could have been overheated at some point resulting in brain damage that reduced motor control.

Following up on this theory, what would the temps need to be and for how long to cause something like this?
Could say 101F for a few hours cause this or would greater temps for a longer period be required?

 

[Miss Tuniwha]

I had one a while back, had an incubation spike.. ended up with neruological issues from it.. he would actually roll..

 

[Clay Davenport]

Following up on this theory, what would the temps need to be and for how long to cause something like this?
Could say 101F for a few hours cause this or would greater temps for a longer period be required?

Any answer I gave to this question would be little more than speculation. Overheating can cause brain damage, that's a commonly known fact which I presented as a possibility. The specific temperatures and times required however are unknown to me as I have never tested it.

In my opinion, which again is just speculation since I haven't housed a snake at those temps, 101 for a few hours would probably not cause any permanent damage.

 

[Clay Davenport]

Its possible for a normal out of a spider breeding to display head wobble or tremors.

I have seen it in crosses made with spiders, all spiders display this behavior at some time or another. it can not be bred out of spiders.

I'd like additional clarification on this statement.
You say it's possible for normals produced from a spider parent to display the wobble.
Then you say you've seen it in crosses made with spiders. Are you talking about something like bumblebees here, which also display the spider mutation?

Have you personally produced an normal patterned snake from a spider breeding that displays the classic head wobble of the spiders?
If you have then you would be the first who claims to have first hand experience of normal spider sibs with the wobble and I would very much like to see that animal.
To date anything I've ever seen or read about this issue has been what someone "heard". As I said, so far there are no substantiated cases of a normal spider sibling displaying the wobble. If you can actually prove that you have seen this then I would be interested in seeing that proof.
Considering the sheer number of breedings from spiders and the to date complete lack of normals form those breedings displaying the wobble, I remain very skeptical.

As for your statement that all spiders display the condition at some time or another, that is just plain wrong. There are many spiders which are known to have never displayed the condition.
I do agree however that it cannot be bred out of the mutation, since spiders known to have never wobbled have also been known to produce offspring that did.

 

[John E Dove]

Regardless of side discussions, which I hope will continue for those of us who have little knowledge on the subject, I would like to thank all who have supplied their knowledge on this subject.
I passed on everyone’s information to the snake owner as possible causal factors and elimination of causal factors giving credit to the authors. She was most appreciative for the information even though she may never know the exact cause.
I personally would like to thank all of you for sharing your experience and knowledge with me so I could attempt to assist a fellow hobbyist who for whatever reason is unwilling to join forums such as this one.