woman in NY dead from Mamba Bite

[Morelia4life]

What is the fascination with poisons snakes?

Just because you don't understand venomous snakes doesn't mean other people don't understand them. I have never kept venomous snakes but I have always thought the Gaboon Vipers are very beautiful and interesting snakes. You ask what is the fascination with "poisons" snakes and I ask what is the fascination with Ball pythons??? Different people like different things, it is simple as that. Just because I love Australian snakes doesn't mean everyone else in the reptile world will love Australian snakes.

Also, snakes don't have poison they have venom. Venom has to be injected through a venom delivery system and poison has to be ingested. Poison dart frogs, beetles, millipedes, mushrooms, things like that are poisonous. They have no way of injecting their poison into the bloodstream. Snakes, Spiders, Jellyfish, Stonefish, things like that are all venomous. They all have fangs, spines or barbs that inject venom into the bloodstream to either kill or paralyze their prey or their attackers.

 

[Katie.Shinkle]

Different stroaks for different folks.

Every species has snakes that are the bad apples. Even hots. But why does that mean people shouldnt keep em? If you havent worked with, say cobra's. You dont know the joys of working with them. Why cant a king cobra have the same joys as others BPs?

Does this mean you'll quit badgering me about getting into BPs?

Basically, what he said. There are some amazing venomous snakes out there, and some people decide to devote their time to them. That's their choice, and they have the right to it. Would I ever keep venomous? Probably not...but that's because I'm clumsy and would end up getting bitten, which, obviously, would not be fun, or good on my wallet

 

[bondoron]

I really, really don't see the need to keep such incredibly venomous and dangerous creatures in private collections. Forget about boas and pythons on the injurious list... mambas should be there, along with any snake that has the potential either through volume of venom delivered or venom toxicity to kill a healthy adult human.

I'd rather have a loaded gun pointed at my head with the hammer cocked than a loose mamba in my neighborhood.

I cringed when I read this. This is the problem with people in this hobby. I don't like this snake so let them take them away. I don't have much invested in the snakes that are on the ban list. But I have been fighting to stop the ban. Open the door and HSUS will come running through it. Until people in this hobby understand this we will never be united enough to fight off these laws.

 

[redhood23]

Does typical health insurance cover the medical expenses incurred from a venomous snake bite in a situation whereby the person bitten was keeping them in his or her care?

If not, this could be quite an expensive ride for someone..... And more than likely their health insurance would drop them like a hot potato afterwards.

The hospital I work in deals with rattlesnake bites all the time, the cost is always out of pocket. We have delt with more snake bites from people in the rattlesnake round than anything else. Man, those people are not to smart.

 

[Ntyvirus]

I heard a story about a guy who got tagged by one of his rattlesnakes (not sure of actual species and im pretty sure he was legit with all his permits and stuff) and i believe they said the cost of all the treatments came to around 100k. That alone is reason enough for me to not deal with hots.

 

[redhood23]

I heard a story about a guy who got tagged by one of his rattlesnakes (not sure of actual species and im pretty sure he was legit with all his permits and stuff) and i believe they said the cost of all the treatments came to around 100k. That alone is reason enough for me to not deal with hots.

That is about average fot the cost. The hospital I work in actually charges about $8,500 per vial and depending on the species, swelling, envenomation, etc.. they will administer a minimum of 5 vials. I have seen them administer over 20 in some cases. We had a 3yr old who grabbed a baby C. atrox and would not let it go. They brought the kid in with the snake still clamped onto his hand. that kid got a total of 23 vials before he was shipped to get a Fasciotomy.

 

[Helenthereef]

I agree that if you want to keep venomous species you should not be legislated against, but as it's a conscious, presumably adult, decision with obvious risks, I fail to see why regular health or life insurance should cover you?

Rather than legislate, why not just let people live (or otherwise) with the consequences of their actions? Unprepared people often take risks partially because they think "someone else" will pick up the pieces.

 

[bondoron]

What is the fascination with poisons snakes?

Don't know, what is a poisonous snake?

 

[hhmoore]

but as it's a conscious, presumably adult, decision with obvious risks, I fail to see why regular health or life insurance should cover you?

Rather than legislate, why not just let people live (or otherwise) with the consequences of their actions? Unprepared people often take risks partially because they think "someone else" will pick up the pieces.

Driving, flying, and horseback riding (the list is quite extensive, but this is enough to make the point) are conscious decisions with obvious risks - should people injured during any of those activities be left high and dry by the insurance companies, as well?

 

[Bill T]

Don't know, what is a poisonous snake?

ven·om [vénnəm]
n
1. poisonous fluid injected by animal: a poisonous fluid produced by an animal and injected into prey or attackers by a bite or sting.
Venoms are produced by a wide range of animals, including snakes, scorpions, spiders, and fish.

Call it what you want the outcome is the same.I was raised to call them poisonous.

 

[Lucille]

Bill, Ron.
If we squabble with each other when we know what the other person is saying, those who would take away what we're talkin' about are gonna have easy pickins. Let's get along.

 

[Helenthereef]

Driving, flying, and horseback riding (the list is quite extensive, but this is enough to make the point) are conscious decisions with obvious risks - should people injured during any of those activities be left high and dry by the insurance companies, as well?

I take your point, but as a SCUBA diver I am excluded from most standard insurance, as it's seen as a high risk activity - I beg to differ, but then again I suppose most venomous keeper would too. I think many people would consider keeping "hots" outside of what would be considered "normal" risk factors by insurers.

 

[timebider]

Driving, flying, and horseback riding

Hey, Harald, now you're getting personal. Those are three things I love to do, but I sure never considered myself much of a risk-taker. That's no doubt where the discrepancy lies, for the public as well as insurance companies.

If I was bitten by a hot while hiking on a trail, I'd fight tooth and nail if my insurance tried to deny the claim. There's no way that would be my fault (that anyone knows of...). There's simply no real justification for denying snakebite claims, even if the offending snake was part of a collection and/or provoked. Liability is not an issue for any other aspect of health coverage that I'm aware of. Do lung cancer patients get denied treatments because they smoke(d)?

...off to bed now..getting distinctly (fruit-)loopy.

 

[hhmoore]

I take your point, but as a SCUBA diver I am excluded from most standard insurance, as it's seen as a high risk activity - I beg to differ, but then again I suppose most venomous keeper would too. I think many people would consider keeping "hots" outside of what would be considered "normal" risk factors by insurers.

I'm very much aware of that. I'm still waiting for them to make similar claims about motorcycling being a disqualifying factor in health insurance. (I was in an accident a few months ago, and despite having my health insurance information, I continue to get bills for the full amount - approx $6000, between ambulance, emergency room, CT scans, ER physician, radiologist. So far, no explanation of WHY this is the case).
My point wasn't that keeping hots isn't a risk, it was more that our lives are FULL of risks...and most of them are statistically more common than a venomous keeper being bitten by a snake in his care. To just blindly accept the notion of being disqualifed for coverage when we are involved in things that present greater risk seems to reek of It can't happen to me.

 

[SDExotics]

ive been keeping venomous snakes for over 20 years and im pretty sure the inland tai pan is the deadliest snake in the world yes the mamba kills more ppl but they live where there is ppl unlike that sp of taipan just what i spotted in the article that was off sorry a lil off topic

 

[Morelia4life]

ive been keeping venomous snakes for over 20 years and im pretty sure the inland tai pan is the deadliest snake in the world yes the mamba kills more ppl but they live where there is ppl unlike that sp of taipan just what i spotted in the article that was off sorry a lil off topic

How can the Inland Taipan be the most deadly snake in the world when it hasn't killed anyone??? Don't you have to kill people to be considered deadly? The Coastal Taipan in Australia has killed people but the Inland Taipan hasn't. Also, scientist now say that the Inland Taipan is no longer the world's most venomous snake. It is now the most venomous land snake but the world's most venomous snake is a sea snake called Hydrophis belcheri, common name... the Faint-Banded Sea snake. If you want to talk about the world's most deadly snakes, look into the Saw-Scaled viper and the Indian Cobra. Both species kill more people then any other snakes in the world.

There are many factors you have to consider when factoring in the world's most deadly snake. You have to look at how close they live to humans, how aggressive they are towards humans, how venomous they are, where the bite is located, how much venom they inject into the bite site, how far is medical treatment is located and more facts at that. That is why Australia has very few snake bite deaths and India has 10's of thousands of snake bite deaths a year. If I am wrong, please correct me someone.

 

[Pmsayi]

ive been keeping venomous snakes for over 20 years and im pretty sure the inland tai pan is the deadliest snake in the world yes the mamba kills more ppl but they live where there is ppl unlike that sp of taipan just what i spotted in the article that was off sorry a lil off topic

The deadliest venomous snake in the world is the one that just bit you. Treating any venomous snake differently based on LD 50's or any other rating system is a recipe for disaster.

 

[Pmsayi]

How can the Inland Taipan be the most deadly snake in the world when it hasn't killed anyone??? Don't you have to kill people to be considered deadly? The Coastal Taipan in Australia has killed people but the Inland Taipan hasn't. Also, scientist now say that the Inland Taipan is no longer the world's most venomous snake. It is now the most venomous land snake but the world's most venomous snake is a sea snake called Hydrophis belcheri, common name... the Faint-Banded Sea snake. If you want to talk about the world's most deadly snakes, look into the Saw-Scaled viper and the Indian Cobra. Both species kill more people then any other snakes in the world.

There are many factors you have to consider when factoring in the world's most deadly snake. You have to look at how close they live to humans, how aggressive they are towards humans, how venomous they are, where the bite is located, how much venom they inject into the bite site, how far is medical treatment is located and more facts at that. That is why Australia has very few snake bite deaths and India has 10's of thousands of snake bite deaths a year. If I am wrong, please correct me someone.

I agree with most of what you posted, however the Inland Taipan has killed people. I remember reading about an American biologist/ zooologist studying snake venom in the 1950's who was envenomated while handling (One fang penetrated the finger) a freshly caught IT and died as a result of the bite. I would also add the Russells viper to your list of India's killers as I believe that rounds out the big three.

If you go by LD 50 I believe the beaked sea snake is also more deadly than the Taipan. With Mambas it is more a case of being in populated areas and the potential aggression level of the animal. Though it should be noted that not every encounter results in an attach, and there have been many noted encounters between Mambas and humans in nature that have not resulted in an attack. I had a geology professor that relayed a story about a mambas that lived in the roof thatch of a hut he stayed in while doing field research. The snake was aware of his presence and he of the snakes but both managed to coexist peacefully for a couple of days.

 

[Lucille]

The snake was aware of his presence and he of the snakes but both managed to coexist peacefully for a couple of days.

And Japan coexisted with its nuclear reactors peacefully for a long time. Good planning is everything; hoping for the best may turn out to be less satisfactory.

 

[Morelia4life]

I agree with most of what you posted, however the Inland Taipan has killed people. I remember reading about an American biologist/ zooologist studying snake venom in the 1950's who was envenomated while handling (One fang penetrated the finger) a freshly caught IT and died as a result of the bite. I would also add the Russells viper to your list of India's killers as I believe that rounds out the big three.

If you go by LD 50 I believe the beaked sea snake is also more deadly than the Taipan. With Mambas it is more a case of being in populated areas and the potential aggression level of the animal. Though it should be noted that not every encounter results in an attach, and there have been many noted encounters between Mambas and humans in nature that have not resulted in an attack. I had a geology professor that relayed a story about a mambas that lived in the roof thatch of a hut he stayed in while doing field research. The snake was aware of his presence and he of the snakes but both managed to coexist peacefully for a couple of days.

I didn't mention the other two snakes that India has that represent the Big 4. The whole list of the Big 4 are: Saw-Scaled Viper, Russells Viper, Common Krait and the Indian Cobra. They have mix reviews on which species kills the most. Some agree that it is based on whatever part of India you are in. Either way they are all very dangerous snakes that I want know part of. They are to be respected and not to be taken lightly neither in captivity or the wild.