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Would you buy a snake feeding on ASFR?

SPJ

SPJ

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I have seen a few ads pop up lately for baby BP's (morphs) that have it listed that they are feeding on ASFR's and it really bugs me that the sellers would start them on these. I would definitely NOT buy any animal that is being fed soft furred rats. We are not talking about an adult import that you cannot get feeding. We are talking about CBB morphs. I think it is stupid to start hatchlings feeding on this when common feeders are readily available. Realistically, how many people have access to a steady supply of these feeders? If you want to sell a CBB baby, you should have it feeding on readily available rodents if you want to sell it. Why get them established on soft furred rats and make the buyer have to deal with trying to get them to switch to normal mice or rats?
 
It would not bother me one way or the other. Every snake I own will readily eat rats or ASFs from one week to the next. My personal opinion on CBBs is that they are not picky like some imports are as long as you are making the adjustments needed to keep each individual Ball happy. I have racks that are kept at 88-90, some racks are at 90-92 and some at 92-94. All because some of my snakes prefer different temps. Some need hides, some dont. Some like 32 quart tubs some like the bigger CB-70 Iris tubs. In my experience, if you are addressing their environmental needs they will eat anything.

I can understand people using nothing but ASFs, they dont get too big to feed off like rats do. An adult ASF is the perfect size for adult BPs. I know when my rats get too big I have to start scrambling to get rid of them. Not with my ASF colonies. I just have a holding tub for weaned males and a holding tub for weaned females. They never get too big to feed off!!

I do understand your concerns to a degree. And out of common courtesy I dont let any of my CBBs that I am going to sell touch anything but a rat. But like I said above, if you are taking the proper care of a CBB, then getting it to eat any rodent should not be a problem in most cases. But I think you are being a bit closed minded thinking everyone should do things a certain way. Like when I hear people griping about getting CBBs that are not converted to F/T yet. Or getting CBBs that are not on rats yet, or that are on rats and not mice.

Not everyone is going to do things the same way. It dont make them wrong or stupid. If you dont want to deal with a person that is selling a snake started on ASFs then dont buy from them. Same with the people who insist on them already eating F/T. Or eating whatever way they personally want it to be. Just go buy from someone else, no need to insult people just because they dont do things the way you want them to. That is really lame in my book.
 
This just bugs me. Even though I do have access to soft furred, I just think it is wrong to be feeding hatchlings these and offering them for sale when there are still many people out there who don't.
I have no problem feeding them these if they are holdbacks but if you are selling a snake and ship it across the country where people may not have access to them, I don't think that is right. Shipping can cause a great feeder to go off feed until it settles in. Now add to it that you may not have access to what it has been feeding on.
I just feel that if you want to sell a snake online, that you should have it feeding on readily available rodents. This way the person buying it can go to any petstore and get live feeders if needed or buy frozen ones online. Some BP's can be stubborn feeders and prefer one type of food.
It just bugs me to think that a person may get stuck with a BP morph that refuses regular rats or mice because it wants soft furred ones.
I think the seller should look at what impact this might have upon buyers and not feed these just out of convenience.
 
I think as long as they clearly state its feeding on ASF's there really shouldnt be a problem. If you want something feeding on rats, look for an animal that is feeding on rats.

BUT. maybe its possible that if you REALLY want said animal, that the breeder can work on switching it to normal rats, or have a few trial feedings to see if it will readily take them before you buy it.
 
Again, this falls back to people not doing things the way YOU want them to do things. I turn away people every year who insist I convert my babies to F/T or mice. I refuse to do it. I dont feed F/T or mice and dont have the time or inclination to deal with it.

It is real simple, if you dont like how the seller is feeding their babies then buy from someone else who will cater to your specific wants. Expecting the whole world to do things the way you think it should be done is just plain narrow minded.
 
shrap said:
I turn away people every year who insist I convert my babies to F/T or mice. I refuse to do it. I dont feed F/T or mice and dont have the time or inclination to deal with it.
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See now I have gotten animals taking f/t for people who asked me to do it.
If someone wanted an animal and they could provide a good home for it, and it was currently taking live, I have no problem trying to switch it from live to f/t for them if I could. Granted some don't switch easily but I would try to do for them if asked.
Perfect example of that from a customer.
had them both on F/T for me
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.

I think you should do everything possible to ensure the buyers sucess with the animal and although you cannot control everything once it leaves, having it feeding on rodents not readily available is one thing you can control.
 
Maybe I'm getting jaded due to some bad deals lately and this is probably just a dumb topic but it seems a lot of people out there nowadays just don't care about customers anymore and do whatever is easiest for them.

I'd really feel bad if I sold someone a snake feeding on soft furred rats and it didn't convert to normal mice/rats for them and they couldn't get them easily.
 
In our rodent colony we have ASF rats, mice, gerbils and siberian hamsters. Some ball pythons tend to prefer one over the other. They will sometimes hesitate with a mouse (and they have eating before) but they don't even "think twice" with an ASF. There's something with the ASF hoppers it might be the smell but they really move faster than the common mouse and some baby balls really like something very active. Having said this there are other baby balls that get scared when something is hyperactive, particularly when it hits them on the run. In short, nothing's perfect :)
 
It isn't a dumb topic at all, Steve...but if the seller is being upfront about the fact that they are feeding ASF rats, I don't have a problem with the idea of them doing it. Many of us do, however, sometimes forget that a lot of people really are uninformed about the animals they are purchasing. They don't know that some balls can be problematic feeders, wouldn't have a clue what ASF stood for, and wouldn't think that there might be a problem feeding their new snake mice from the local pet store. I think that if one is feeding a specialty item by choice, it would be a good practice to mention it during communications with potential customers...possibly going as far as asking if they have a source for feeders should the animal choose not to accept standard fare

There is nothing wrong with a person doing what something that is convenient/easy for them in the course of caring for their animals. I have a few baby milks that are feeding on ASF pinks, because my mice stopped producing and I ran out of frozen. Does that make me a bad keeper? A bad seller (not that I have advertised these yet)? I don't think so - I am just feeding them what I have available.
 
As far as the ad goes the only thing I like to see is a description of what they are actually eating. That's probably among the first questions one should ask when purchasing a snake but if you look at the current ads most sellers disclose what they are feeding their animals.

Regards.
 
I agree with what you are saying. Maybe I'm not expressing what I am trying to say right.
The ads do state they are feeding on ASF. The thing that got me was a lot of people may think it's no problem to get them eating other rodents and buy the animal only to find out it's one of those time where the snake won't switch. Sort of like some of the ads where the BP's are feeding on gerbils and hamsters because that is what the seller has and didn't try to offer mice/rats.

Being upfront is great and that's how it should be but at the same time sellers should realize that some people buying snakes don't have access to different feeders and don't really know what to expect if a snake doesn't switch right away. How many posts have there been about "my snake won't eat" only to find out the snake arrived that day or a few days prior.

I just think it would be a potential headache for sellers and buyers that could be avoided by getting whatever animals you intend to sell on common feeders.

there are other baby balls that get scared when something is hyperactive
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I know exactly what you mean. I had one hatchling in particular this year that I couldn't get started until I fed a very small basically motionless feeder. Some took whatever moved and others held out for 3 weeks post shed to eat. One even took f/t as it's first meal. I could have tried ASF to entice the holdouts to eat but what if that worked and when I sold them, the buyer had no way to get ASF and they wouldn't take a mouse?

Hopefully I was able to clarify what the original intent of this topic was otherwise I will feel really dumb.

Oh well, time to follow up with my "buddy" Josh about something. :dgrin:
 
One of the basic questions as a buyer you need to ask is what the snake is feeding on and how often. If it's strictly an ASF feeder and you don't have a good supply you don't buy it - or ask the seller if they mind starting it on your food item of choice before shipping. I don't particularly like hatchlings that only take live hopper mice - but find they easily convert to f/t pups in no time - you work with what you got to work with or you don't buy.
 
ToshaMc said:
you work with what you got to work with or you don't buy.
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Bingo. I wouldn't buy it if it is feeding on ASF and if the seller wouldn't try to get it to switch.

I think to avoid any problems with people buying them who don't really understand what they are doing (and there are some out there who have the money but not a lot of common sense LOL) the animals slated for sale online should be feeding on rodents readily available to anyone. It is one less issue that could arise and just makes good sense IMO.
 
I think that's the buyer's responsiblity. As long as the ad states what they ARE feeding on, then there shouldn't be any real issue. If someone buys a snake that is advertised as feeding on ASF, then they hsould be intelligent enough to know they'll need that food item.
I personally have had my snakes switch from ASF to domestic and back over and over without any issue. I finally got rid of all the african soft furr rats, and am in the process of ridding myself of the adult domestic rats as well. Otherwise I'd probably raise the african soft furs, since they don't get too big.
It's a good issue to bring up, I just don't think there is a problem, as long as the ad states what is being fed.
 
Personally I wouldn't care as long as I knew what the snake was eating, but I raise my own feeders so I can feed whatever the snake wants. On the other hand, if I wasn't prepared to provide a certain prey item, whether it was gerbils, hampsters, ASFs or whatever, I would't buy a snake that was only feeding on that. The way I see it, there's no guarantee it'll switch.
 
I understand what you're saying, Steve, and for the most part agree with you wholeheartedly. I have ASF in my rodent colony only because I have a couple of adults that I purchased that will only eat readily on them, though I have gotten the one girl to take a rat on occasion. I have always said that I would never start any hatchlings on ASF, for exactly the reasons you have stated, however I did end up using the ASF to get a couple of hatchlings eating that had gone 5 weeks post-shed without eating....and they ate the ASF right off the bat. I gave them one more feeding one the ASF, and then offered rat crawlers, and they took right off. I may have gotten lucky, but would rather have them eating anything than starving.

I still wouldn't start them on ASF by choice however, just for the reasons you stated....they are not always readily available, and if I have to use the ASF to start them, I will always do my best to make sure they are converted to rats before sale.

I have, however, several times made the conversion to f/t for customers, and even had one occasion recently where the customer requested that I switch his snake to ASF from rats. If I have the time, I figure it's just that much more I can do personally to make sure the snake has a successful acclimation to his new home.

I understand all breeders cannot take the time to do this, and agree with what has already been said by others - if the breeder will not switch them, and you aren't prepared to feed what they are currently eating, simply don't buy them. Unfortunately, there are too many novice owners who may not know just how difficult making the switch CAN be. If I had an animal only eating ASF, and the potential buyer did not have ready access to ASF....I would refuse the sale, because as Shelly said, there is never a guarantee that they will switch.
 
Cat_72 said:
I have, however, several times made the conversion to f/t for customers, and even had one occasion recently where the customer requested that I switch his snake to ASF from rats. If I have the time, I figure it's just that much more I can do personally to make sure the snake has a successful acclimation to his new home.
Click to expand...

My biggest issue with switching babies over to F/T or mice for a customer is simply the fact I dont feed F/T or mice. So I dont ever have any F/T or mice on hand.

I may be wrong but I see ASFs becoming much more popular over the next few years. And not just for Ball Pythons. I imagine within the next 5-10 years that they will be readily available from Rodent Pro and all the other online rodent vendors. Simply because they are very cost effective to breed and their size. They dont eat as much as rats, they dont take up as much space as rats and they have larger litters than both rats and mice. At birth they are as small as pinky mice and they max out at the size of a small rat. So you are covering a very large spectrum of snake species with one feeder.

And while this is only a plus for those that raise their own feeders, they plain dont smell. The ammonia level in their urine is insanely lower than mice.

They really aint just for Ball Pythons that are poor eaters anymore. They are an ideal feeder for a wide variety snake species.
 
Yes, in a few years we might be having the discussion as to if you would by a snake not started on ASF because they might be the new standard.

I wouldn't hesitate to buy a ball started on ASF but agree the ad should say. I had a group of adults on loan that where being fed ASF for an extended time and all switched back to Norway rats except 1 and for all I know she might have been in a fast period that had nothing to do with feeder types.

I also got a baby that was started on ASF and switched to Norway without hesitation.

As soon as I can I'm going to set up an ASF colony and see if they are as much better to raise as it sounds like they are. I had planed on only feeding the babies I produce mice and Norway rats for marketing reasons but depending on how wide spread ASFs are by next year and how hard it is for me to get the old standard feeders I might just go the route of starting them on and advertising them as ASF feeders.
 
Shrap, I would agree if it wasn't for legislation which I think will prevent any true commercialization of african soft furs rats.

I won't have a problem buying a ball feeding on Asf's for one cause I've got a colony but for two I haven't had too many problems making the switch to rats. In fact I'm finding less and less use for the Asf's. I just don't have very many picky eaters. Of course I've got some that won't eat for 6 months but their not picky..lol

I will always prefer rats over Asf's because Asf's grow too slow. It seems to take at least 8 weeks to grow a desent size feeder, when rats are there in half the time. Plus mine are just too freakin mean, which makes for slow cleaning, when you're cleaning several tubs you have to constantly worry about being bitten.
 
Good feedback from someone who is actually already razing them, thanks Larry!

I'd still like to take a shot and see if selective breeding could make progress on growth and temperament. Already I've noticed from posts it looks like temperament can vary from colony to colony. Hopefully some faster growing genes are out there too.

I think the main advantage of the ASF's might be for the smaller keepers. People that don't already have a dedicated rodent facility and need to breed a few animals in their house. In my case, Norway rats just smell too bad. I've not yet convinced the wife that ASF's don't but expect they will be like the Syrian Hamsters I used to raise and trade to pet stores. A much drier animal. How many ASF rat tubs would it take for the average keeper of 3 - 10 ball pythons to feed their colony? I guess a lot of that depends on the growth rate too.
 
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