You partner looking at the opposite sex??

[ZX11]

I guess that porn is a more sensitive issue for women than for men. I am not sure why, won't guess, either.

But, maybe it is because men think about it more than women. Dr. Phil would maybe say its because the man isn't getting something at home, so he seeks it out through other avenues, such as watching and using his imagination.
But, then, I think anyone that listens to him needs therapy.

Perhaps its a difference of generations. I notice younger females are not as offended by it as older ones, some even enjoying it as much. Evolution at work?

For those of us that netsurf, we see the changes taking place in the darkest of recesses of life and how they are coming into the mainstream.
20 years ago, certain oral aspects were not spoken of openly, but now it is. But, ever wonder what is after that?
I've seen it. Won't go into great detail about it, but it certainly hurts to see what my granddaughter is going to be facing and it will probably be considered the norm for her generation, yet extreme perverstion for ours, if not disgusting. It is far worse than you can imagine; humans pushing it too the limits-- and beyond.

I wish I could say why people do the things they do, but I do agree that if he promised to not veiw this material, or have it, you have every right to take whatever action you choose. He violated you and your trust. I do suggest a very serious sit down with him. Not a bitch session, but an honest talk. Make him know you are open to hear his side and not get bent out of shape over anything he says. Remember something: Us guys don't like getting into trouble. really, we don't. But, if we fear reprisal, we will not open up. There has to be some compromise in this. Heart to heart talk will dig it up. The threat of being hurt, hurting, or a bitch session only aggravates the matter.

 

[A_Kendergirl]

From my experience - if he watched porn before you, he'll watch it while with you...no matter what promises come out of his mouth to the contrary. I've seen it with my dad (trust me...how I know is nothing lewd), with a friend's ex-husband, and with countless other friends starting to date. It causes problems, and mostly because they say they won't do it and then still do. I have never asked my husband to not look, as I never want to hear that lie. The majority of the time, it doesn't bother me. At times I look with him. When I feel he's spending more time looking at porn than looking at me, we talk and he scales it back. REALISTIC expectations. Some guys are porn fiends, and some look every rare now and then, a very rare few have no intrest in it. If you start to date a porn fiend, DO NOT expect him to change for you. It's not going to happen.

EVERY guy I currently know, and have known in the past, watches/looks at porn. EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM (I talk of those I've had a conversation about the subject, which is all of the ones I know in real life). The ONE guy I knew that honestly had no intrest in it, WORKED in the porn industry for awhile (editing video). How am I privileged enough to know this? Guys feel safe enough around me to let me see the side few girls see.....things they normally wouldn't do (or talk about) in the company of women. I may roll my eyes at times, but I never make them feel bad for doing the things they do.

I do think it's partially an age thing. I know a number of women my age and younger that aren't bothered by it, and only a few that are older. However, for every one girl I know that OK with it, I know 3 that are seriously bothered by it. Some of it is because it makes them feel insecure. Some of it is because they find it disgusting and they don't understand the attraction. There are many, many reasons why someone may be against it. All I really know is, if they are against it, they are just as unlikely to change as the guy is to stop doing it for them.

I honestly don't understand why my husband looks at it as much as he does. To me, it's fun occasionally, but boring to look at all the time. But I realise he has different drives from me, so even though I don't understand it, I accept it. If the day ever comes that he chooses porn over me, THEN we'll have a problem, but it's never happened and I doubt it ever will.

Really, all this boils down to, is I can't help the guys understand why so many women are against it and I can't help the girls understand why the guys do it. I can just hope that you find and keep an understanding of what is OK to both of you in your own relationship. REALISTIC EXPECTATIONS.

 

[Griz]

Well, here's my $.02 cents on it. I don't look at porn. I never have had the desire to ruin my life by doing so. Am I saying that the path of porn leads you to perverted unrealistic expectations? Absolutely!

Porn has absolutely no redeeming values. It allows men to believe that all women should be moaning and groaning every time there is a sexual encounter. It does not show reality. After all, when have you ever heard the woman asking the man to go get a towel? Get real.

Pornography leads men down a very precarious pathway that leads to nowhere. I do not care what the porn industry states, it ruins marriages. It ruins relationships. It ruins lives. Anyone who participates in the watching of porn, especially the woman, really have to sit down and figure out what this pornography is doing for their marriage. By participating in watching it with your husbands, you are in essence, stating it's OK for your husband to be turned on by another woman. You're giving him permission to develop unrealistic expectations in your own marriage. Whether you want to accept it or not, it changes the way in which your husband views you. "Gee, you mean you don't want to do it while standing on your head?" "Why won't you scream and moan EVERY SINGLE time we are together?" Why won't you allow me to find another use for that deer call of mine?" "Why don't you look like her?" "What if I bought you those fake boobs?" "Can you cut your hair?" "Can you get a tramp stamp on your lower back like Jenna does?

There are no redeeming values to pornography. Men watch it to satisfy a testosterone high. While simple and innocent enough when starting, where does it lead you? Soon enough, man on woman is not enough. Now you need man on woman on woman to maintain your high. Then after a few weeks, it becomes man on woman on woman with various toys. Then it moves to something, albeit simple, more deviant then previous as your "high" just is not high enough. It's a precarious road and one in which I choose not to travel.

My "porn life" is a realistic one. It involves me and my wife. Nothing more and nothing less. And I promise you this, our sex life could not be more fulfilling or rewarding. There's not a porn star that could hold a candle to ours. And our sex life is a realistic one.

Griz

 

[handsomeRob]

well thats good that you have a good sex life but what about all those people who cant find that "special someone"? to say that porn is just so wrong and that it leads to a miserably failed life is just so onesided. if you dont like it then thats okay. but to a lot of people it actually helps stimulate an active sex life whether with a single person or a couple. sure there will hardly ever be a real life scenario where some hot redhead delivers a pizza to my door and then proceeds to do a striptease while i search for my wallet like a madman, but im sure it has happened to at least one person . not sure about the "go get a towel" thing. i dont think i watched that video.

 

[nicolai]

Well, here's my $.02 cents on it. I don't look at porn. I never have had the desire to ruin my life by doing so. Am I saying that the path of porn leads you to perverted unrealistic expectations? Absolutely!
Griz

I am going to have to disagree with that one. Some people use porn as a way to stimulate thier love lives, Some people use it as a teaching method, Some people just ejoy watching others (vouyers), some people like porn as a way of redveloping that lost spark in long term relationships. Sure there are some bad sides of porn but it is unfair to group all porn into the "road to evil and hell" category.

 

[Griz]

You can disagree all you want, I anticipated such responses, but the fact of the matter is that statistics prove my point. Nobody, I don't care how educated you are or are not, can deny the fact that pornography slowly leads to stronger pornography etc. It is a downhill slide that slowly, almost always unbeknownst to the viewer, desynthesizes them to what they are viewing. Pornography is NEVER part and parcel to an active or healthy sex life. This part of my argument cannot be denied. It's fact.

But, take a look at another issue. That woman you are watching is someone's daughter. Would you want thousands of men to be achieving sexual gratification to your daughter? At some point, men need to be men and it's not by sexually gratifying yourself to a television screen. That girl you are watching is a person, a real life person and you should respect them more than that. THEY should respect themselves more than that. To do otherwise is to simply state that you do not care about that person. That your sexual needs are more important then the worth of that individual or your own marriage.

Before you go off defending your positions here, take a look at the statistics regarding pornography. It is staggering. After you comprehend what it is you just read (statistics) imagine those statistics being about your own daughter. It has to change your viewpoint at least slightly. Pornography is never innocent. Somewhere, somehow, someone is being hurt by your activities. The sad thing is that often times, that someone resides in your own home and you are not even cognitive enough to be aware of it.

Griz

 

[nicolai]

You can disagree all you want, I anticipated such responses, but the fact of the matter is that statistics prove my point. Nobody, I don't care how educated you are or are not, can deny the fact that pornography slowly leads to stronger pornography etc. It is a downhill slide that slowly, almost always unbeknownst to the viewer, desynthesizes them to what they are viewing. Pornography is NEVER part and parcel to an active or healthy sex life. This part of my argument cannot be denied. It's fact.

But, take a look at another issue. That woman you are watching is someone's daughter. Would you want thousands of men to be achieving sexual gratification to your daughter? At some point, men need to be men and it's not by sexually gratifying yourself to a television screen. That girl you are watching is a person, a real life person and you should respect them more than that. THEY should respect themselves more than that. To do otherwise is to simply state that you do not care about that person. That your sexual needs are more important then the worth of that individual or your own marriage.

Before you go off defending your positions here, take a look at the statistics regarding pornography. It is staggering. After you comprehend what it is you just read (statistics) imagine those statistics being about your own daughter. It has to change your viewpoint at least slightly. Pornography is never innocent. Somewhere, somehow, someone is being hurt by your activities. The sad thing is that often times, that someone resides in your own home and you are not even cognitive enough to be aware of it.

Griz

I would love to see those statitics. Yes, the girls/guys that are making nd participating in tohose ilms are indeed someones daughters or sons and are in it of thier own free will. Sure you can say that some dont have any other alternative then that but the majority of the peole in the porn idustry are in it for the money and the enjoyment. Yes i have two daughters that i love very much and hope they neer go in to porn, i have higher expectations for them, But when they are grown adults i can not stop them from making ay choices they make.
Porn doesnt lead to sexual deviancy, or create sexual predators. Those kind of people dont even watch porn, they need personal involvement to fulfil thier desires and needs.
As for respecting themselves more, are we now to judge people and tell them what is and isnt repectable. I am a devout orthodox and i do not judge people for who they are or what thier life styles mey be. To each his own, let god judge everyone when they die, while they are here who are we to judge them lest we be judged ourselves.
Porn can and has been a part of healthy relationhips and have savd many a couple from breaking up. Jst because some be might not find porn to be a activity they choose to participate in that doesnt mean its wrong for everyone.

 

[Griz]

I would love to see those statitics. Yes, the girls/guys that are making nd participating in tohose ilms are indeed someones daughters or sons and are in it of thier own free will. Sure you can say that some dont have any other alternative then that but the majority of the peole in the porn idustry are in it for the money and the enjoyment. Yes i have two daughters that i love very much and hope they neer go in to porn, i have higher expectations for them, But when they are grown adults i can not stop them from making ay choices they make.

Whoa.....Nicolai, if you have higher expectations for your daughters then aren't you very clearly stating that pornography is wrong? Is it only good enough for someone else's daughter? You want your daughters to be successful and make loads of money, right? If there is nothing wrong with pornography then there is nothing wrong with your daughters doing it. Right?

Nicolai, I am not going to hand deliver you statistics which are available via any google search. Read up on what prior porn stars lives are like. Read some of their autobiography's. Your requested education is right there to be had. You just need to stop fooling yourself into believing that it never harmed anyone and start educating yourself.

Porn doesnt lead to sexual deviancy, or create sexual predators. Those kind of people dont even watch porn, they need personal involvement to fulfil thier desires and needs.

Who are you trying to fool here? Yourself? If pornography never led to sexual deviancy then why in the world do you find porn at rapists, sexual deviants, child molestors homes? Sure Nicolai, porn never led to such behaviors....

As for respecting themselves more, are we now to judge people and tell them what is and isnt repectable. I am a devout orthodox and i do not judge people for who they are or what thier life styles mey be. To each his own, let god judge everyone when they die, while they are here who are we to judge them lest we be judged ourselves.

Do NOT attempt to quote scripture to me. Lest we be judge...sheesh. Why don't you take a look at the Sermon on the Mount and pay particular attention to the plank analogy. Christ never told us not to judge. We are not to judge someone for having a splinter in their eye when we have a plank in ours. I am not judging others for their behaviors. However, I am intelligent enough to see what the final outcome is going to be. If you have to have porn in your relationship then your relationship is NOT healthy. People with far more and far less education then I even know this.

Porn can and has been a part of healthy relationhips and have savd many a couple from breaking up. Jst because some be might not find porn to be a activity they choose to participate in that doesnt mean its wrong for everyone.

Never has and never will. You are fooling yourself. You are the exact type of person that I was referring to when I made the comment that you do not realize the harm you are doing to yourself. Live in your world Nicolai but at least be cognitive of what you are doing to yourself or to your neighbors daughters....

Griz

 

[Lucille]

For myself, I don't look at porn: not on the internet, not elsewhere. I have to admit that several times I have been taken to 'those' kinds of movies, but other than those several, have not seen any others.
I have a vivid imagination though, and I do at times let my mind wander.....

 

[nicolai]

Bob, Just because you don't like porn or approve of it doesn't mean it is wrong for everyone. This is such a thing as a couple sitting back and enjoying a good movie in the comforts of their own home. Who are they hurting? In this day and age with all the fetishes and what not people have the freedoms to enjoy what ever they want and if two people want to enjoy a movie to spice things up in their life then I say go for it. Have i ever watched porn, you bet. When i was in the Army it was a favorite pastime for the guys to pass time when we were restricted to post and such. When I was dating before my wife i dated several women that enjoyed porn as a prelude to other things. No Matter what you say you will never convince me that there is no place for porn in todays society.
Look how many people are against guns "If they outlaw all guns then the outlaws wouldn't be able to get any" so should we outlaw everyone from having guns. People cant keep guns responsibly?
How many people die each year from drunk drivers, liver disease and such, should we outlaw all alcohol? People cant drink responsibly?
Legalizing marijuana for medical purposes?

What I am trying to say is that what isnt good for one person just might be good for another. Its useless for us to continue arguing this subject so I will just let it go and say this. Every person is an individual and capable of making thier own decisions, If a person decides they like a certain thing, and its legal then they have the right and freedom to do so.

 

[handsomeRob]

well put, Nic.

 

[ZX11]

may I interject???

Both of you have valid points, this is true.

But, even though porn has been found in the homes of convicted, and unconvicted, sex criminals, it must be pointed out that porn is in millions of millions of homes worldwide. Is this to say everyone that has porn is a sex offender? I don't think so, and if reliable stats were brought in, it would be found there are millions of porn owners/ veiwers that are not, have not, and will not be sex offenders.
Lets also look at the numbers of sex offenders that had no porn in their home. I am certain there would be numbers there, too. I will state those numbers aren't very high, but they do exist. Is this to say you are, or will be an offender if you don't have porn?

I also agree that the girls of porn are someone's daughter/sister/mother. I am demeaning them by watching perform their chosen profession? I don't think so. Remember, only they can put themselves there.
I am not saying I want to buy a video and see my daughter there. I would certainly be heartbroke and sick about it. But, I raised her to not have to go that route. If she chooses to, it's all on her. I don't have to watch it and will not watch it. I would give to her the video, though. It would hurt to know that some guy is spanking his monkey watching her, millions are. But she knew this before she got involved in it.

I also do not agree that one must view more perverted porn to keep the high. I do agree that it has been utilized to enhance private sex lives of couples. It shows a variety, and some folks need that. Some folks need the extra stimuli. Theres nothing wrong with that.

Suppose your wife is feeling frisky while you are watching CSI MIAMI. Your sex life has tapered down abit. She goes in the room, adorns a very sheer and sexy "teddy". Is she a pervert because she kicked it up a notch? No, she is being human, giving visual stimulation. What if she is in the bathroom when you come out of the shower, dripping wet and you use a pelvic thrust to sling "weiner water" on her playfully? Are you the next baby rapist? No, you are being playful.

When a man donates his super swimmers at the frozen swimmers bank, they provide porn to help give the stimulation. I highly doubt they are on the phone with the FBI warning them there is a future child molester in the room next door and they need to watch you.

While there is suggestive evidence that porn is a major part of "chester the molester's" lifestyle, there is equal rebuttal evidence that porn really had nothing to do with it. Nothing is written in stone about this.

This like saying killers watched "how to" videos, then killed. Or, that others in prisons have learned how to do whatever it is they did by wacthing videos or bought books. People do as people do. No particular rhyme or reason. They just "do".

I do not judge people on the rights or wrongs of it. This is purely a matter of personal choice. I have seen it many times. I do not need it, but don't run, either.

As long as the actors, {yes they are just that} and the veiwers all are content, then so be it. Any act that people perform, in public, or private, is ok as long as there is mutual consent. If this is present, then neither can say they were degraded, so it's all good, I guess.

No matter what, though, people must remember the differences of love and lust, F$#king and making love. You can neither love and F#@k, nor lust and make love.
Notice that lust and F#$k both have a "U" in second place. If one "U" is present, both are. "U" {you} are not in first place.

The other way, both have "love"

Due to the vast numbers of religions and interputations, I will venture into this area.

What is good for one isn't for all, vice versa. Sorry for such a long ramble.....

 

[A_Kendergirl]

Who are you trying to fool here? Yourself? If pornography never led to sexual deviancy then why in the world do you find porn at rapists, sexual deviants, child molestors homes? Sure Nicolai, porn never led to such behaviors....Griz

It's great that you have no need for porn in your life. That being said....

The quote above is a SERIOUS case of putting the cart before the horse. Pedophiles seek pornography of children BECAUSE they are pedophiles....the porn didn't make them become one. That statement is as nonsensical as saying because someone views man on man porn, it made them gay. Trust me, they were gay first.

Please note that I don't feel gay men (or women) are sexually deviant, just that it's a rather ridiculous thought that gay porn would "turn" someone gay.

A side note: My life has not been ruined, and neither has my husband's. The only people that I have seen have problems due to porn is because they LIED about it to their partner. It is the LIE that breaks up relationships. Had they been honest, they may have reached a compromise, or realised they aren't compatible in the first place.

 

[nicolai]

Wow!!! And I thought i was going to be the solo voice of reason here.

 

[Griz]

Wow!!! And I thought i was going to be the solo voice of reason here.

Oh no Nicolai, that designation is mine.

The problem some of you are having is that you are using emotions to justify your stance. For instance:

"Pornography is ok because it makes me feel good."
"Pornography is ok because it can be a marital aid."
"Pornography is ok because it's consenting adults."
"Pornography is ok because who are we to judge."
"Pornography is ok because it is not MY daughter."

Those are the reasoning’s you are giving to justify your stances? It's ok because it makes me feel good. What kind of stance is that?

Do you not see the hypocrisy? Pornography is not something you want your children to be involved in yet you see nothing wrong with it? If you see nothing wrong with it then why in the world don't you want your daughters involved in it? What's good for the goose..............

As for sexual deviancy, the implication of pornography is the desensitizing of the viewer. You are flat our lying to yourself (comment more towards the men) if you tell yourself that watching mild pornography does not lead to more extreme forms. The statistics are irrefutable people. Even the porn industry recognizes this fact hence the reason for the "other" links on their pages. It is this pathway to harder pornography that pushes some people over the edge. They no longer view a woman as something to be admired. They view them as objects, objects of their sick minds. These people do not know the difference between the big screen and reality. Therefore, according to their perverse logic, all women must like to be "gang raped" etc. Did these individuals already have the propensity towards violence? I would say yes but a combination of pornography and societal issues pushes them over the edge. Pornography is part and parcel to their habits. ZX11, show me any conclusive study that says to the contrary. You can't despite your paragraph stating you can.

But, the above paragraph is not really the topic here at hand as I pray none of you fall into that category. So, the real issue here is why is watching porn wrong for the average American? Let me point out a few issues:

1) Pornography feeds lust of the eyes and lust of the flesh, which are never satisfied. This is why some of you are already experiencing husbands/boyfriends who promise to "give it up" but somehow are mysteriously drawn back to it.

2) Pornography sexualizes the viewer's mindset. It is desensitizing you.

3) Pornography promotes destructive practices and can lead to progressive addiction. Why do you think that most porn sites have links to other darker fetishes? Pornography is an addiction. Plain and simple.

4) Pornography intensifies an individual's drive to serve oneself, rather than serve others. Do you really think your husband is not focusing on himself when he watches porn? You have to be kidding yourself if you think the only time he ever watches porn is when you are with him. That's why it's call self-gratification.

5) Pornography addiction can lead to debt. As I said above, it's an addiction and in order to feed that addiction you have to spend money. Again, look at some of the websites and see what the motivation is behind the organizers.

6) Pornography changes your reality. For instance:

# Sexual freedom = happiness
# Perverted sex (incest, BDSM, etc) is more enjoyable than "normal" heterosexual sex
# There are no consequences to sexual promiscuity
# Sexual expression is a right, not a God-given or God-defined gift
# You can live a healthy life with the porn images floating around in your mind
# Porn doesn't harm anyone
# Sex is something to be done primarily for self-gratification
# The porn stars are the happiest people on earth
# Adults can view porn without any lasting side effects
# Porn will help your sex life
# Porn is just a harmless thing that everybody looks at

And from the sound of some of your arguments, some of the above "realities" are coming true...

I would encourage you to ask yourself this question. What's wrong with your own sex life that you require others to fulfill it for you? What's wrong with your own relationship that requires other individuals to perform sex acts in front of you just so that your own motor can get running?

The ONLY reason why some of you feel like justifying your stance is because you do not want to admit that your relationships have problems. Before replying to this comment why don't you sit back and truly think this through before responding. What is the root reason why you feel like your relationship needs pornography? Why do you think it is ok to "spank the monkey" to someone else's daughter but yet you have "higher expectations" for your own? Why do you think it's ok to be a "devote orthodox" but yet fail to follow one of the Ten Commandments in not coveting your neighbor’s wife? Any reason you give is riddled with hypocritical holes. You know it and so do I. The only difference is that I see pornography for what it is while you are defending it for what you wish it could be.......harmless.

Griz

 

[TripleMoonsExotic]

Wow. I really didn't think my little story would blossom into the discussion that it has. I appreciate everyone's input as this has become a very interesting conversation.

not going to go into my personal experiences, but I would warn that if someone cannot stop doing something that both of you have agreed is wrong for the relationship, and tries to make it YOUR fault, that it is important to realize that it is not in fact your fault and that you have done nothing wrong..

Lucille, you're very sweet. I know it's in no way shape or form any fault of mine. I found it amusing when I backed him into a corner and that was his excuse. Chris (like myself) will panic when cornered and spew out ridiculous things when he has nothing else to say. Everything hateful he did say he did come back and apologize for later when I wouldn't give in about the situation and he had some time to think about what he did wrong.

Dr. Phil would maybe say its because the man isn't getting something at home, so he seeks it out through other avenues, such as watching and using his imagination.

This was exactly my view on it. I'm not Dr Phil, but I do have my insecurities...Which I will admit partly stems from the fact that I've gained a good 50lbs since Chris and I have been together. As I have said, I enjoyed what little porn had to offer when in a relationship I knew was not going to last. I will admit that it was because I was searching for something I wasn't getting with whom I was with. But that's just me and my humble opinion.

After all, when have you ever heard the woman asking the man to go get a towel?

I don't know what you're referring to...But I have asked Chris to grab a towel before!

Anyway...I have no issues with others who enjoy Porn. I on the other hand, will not tolerate it in my relationship...

 

[A_Kendergirl]

Yes porn can be an addiction, just as alcohol can be. It can ruin lives when the person isn't in control. But just like alcohol is ok every now and then to the person not addicted, so is porn. Wait..lemme guess...you don't drink alcohol either?

As to #4 in your list, I have no illusions as to when he's looking, but plenty of women do. But, just and you're comfortable in your relationship without porn, we are comfortable in ours with it. While I haven't been with him as long as you've been with your wife, I do feel 9 years is quite a statement.

And for #5, you have a SERIOUS problem if you're going into debt over porn. With the amount that is out there for FREE, you'd almost have to try getting into debt. I don't have the number of dollars we've spent over the years, but I can say with confidence that it's under $100. A few friends I have spend that in a year, do I think they have a problem? Nope.

I think you are blowing the dangers of porn way out proportion. I'm willing to guess that the number of people out there that actually have a serious problem are about the same as the number of people that have problems with alcohol....or any other "common" addiction. Like I've said in previous posts the relationship problems are caused by the dishonesty....and that is something the person controls, not the porn.

And in case you weren't aware not EVERYONE is religious and has religious qualms about porn. That's a whole other issue entirely. But then again, look at all the "religious" people that sleep around (much more destructive than porn), steal, kill people, etc....the hypocrisy is not limited to watching porn. But, again, that's neither here nor there.....and I enjoyed the conversation/debate much more before religion entered (it only serves to obscure things, and isn't a standard that applies to everyone).

 

[A_Kendergirl]

Anyway...I have no issues with others who enjoy Porn. I on the other hand, will not tolerate it in my relationship...

And that's all you need to know. If it's not something tolerable to you, don't tolerate it. To try to be otherwise will just cause conflicts in the future. Hopefully your fiance will realize what's on the line and will be honest to you and your relationship. I've seen this rocky road before....it's not fun, but it's very important to address it before getting married.

Kudos to you for knowing that not everyone feels the same.

 

[handsomeRob]

ok i think we're beating a dead horse here. how about we get back to the main topic of the thread?

 

[Griz]

Yes porn can be an addiction, just as alcohol can be. It can ruin lives when the person isn't in control. But just like alcohol is ok every now and then to the person not addicted, so is porn. Wait..lemme guess...you don't drink alcohol either?

You are correct. I do not drink, do drugs or smoke. It's a treacherous road that they lead you down. I see you skipped over my numerous points but I won't do you the same discourtesy. I will address yours point by point.

As to #4 in your list, I have no illusions as to when he's looking, but plenty of women do. But, just and you're comfortable in your relationship without porn, we are comfortable in ours with it. While I haven't been with him as long as you've been with your wife, I do feel 9 years is quite a statement.

Shanti, when you are a bit older and therefore wiser, I do not doubt that you will look back on this time with some serious questions. You and your spouse are traveling down a road that will get you where? Just wait, the simple bedroom scene will soon not be enough, for him anyways.

And for #5, you have a SERIOUS problem if you're going into debt over porn. With the amount that is out there for FREE, you'd almost have to try getting into debt. I don't have the number of dollars we've spent over the years, but I can say with confidence that it's under $100. A few friends I have spend that in a year, do I think they have a problem? Nope.

Yet millions upon millions do go into debt soley due to porn and their inability to control themselves. So, I ask you why you would even WANT to travel down a road that has led to the demise of so many people? Why would you allow that into your household? You have yet to answer that questions. Nobody has.

I think you are blowing the dangers of porn way out proportion. I'm willing to guess that the number of people out there that actually have a serious problem are about the same as the number of people that have problems with alcohol....or any other "common" addiction. Like I've said in previous posts the relationship problems are caused by the dishonesty....and that is something the person controls, not the porn.

And I think you are underestimated the effects pornography has on people and our society. My opinion is backed up by tens of thousands of studies. Yours is based upon what? Your own relationship. Again, your relationship is probably not statistically significant as you are only 26. It takes time to take it's toll on a marriage. It will take it's toll on yours. Statistics back that up.

And in case you weren't aware not EVERYONE is religious and has religious qualms about porn. That's a whole other issue entirely. But then again, look at all the "religious" people that sleep around (much more destructive than porn), steal, kill people, etc....the hypocrisy is not limited to watching porn. But, again, that's neither here nor there.....and I enjoyed the conversation/debate much more before religion entered (it only serves to obscure things, and isn't a standard that applies to everyone).

Trust me, you cannot spend any amount of time on the internet with that allusion. I never brought religion up, Nicolai did. But I will respond when someone wants to walk down that path. I agree, Christians do more to harm their religion then anything else.

Shanti, as I said in my previous posting, if you are going to participate then educate yourself first on the FACTS. Do not base your opinions upon what you feel which is obviously what you are doing. You BELIEVE that porn is not wrong because it is something you and your husband currently enjoy. You do not BELIEVE it is ok because of statistics, or facts, or case studies. Rather, it is all about how you FEEL, and you FEEL good when watching it. Hmmmm...isn't that one of the dangers I listed above about Pornography? It gives you allusions of grandeur.

Be careful Shanti, as it still befuddles me why you would want to let another woman into your bed and that is EXACTLY what you are doing.

Griz