Inquiry, Denise Latanzi AKA, Denisebme www.Calidragons.com

Originally Posted by Saladragon

Oh my gosh, Bobby! I actually agree with you! However, just because people are doing it, doesn't make it right.

No, I also agree, but if there is hope for this hobby it needs to be seen. I can not see why someone would not try to help others that are all in the same boat.

If the tests are negative, then help others with those results.

Let me preface this post by saying not only do I not breed beardies, I have never even owned one. That said, I obviously have no direct interest in this argument,

My comment is on the statements of several regarding statistics, averages and probabilities in this situation only.

I am going to do some paraphrasing to save time so if anyone takes issue with and statements, feel free to correct me.



It has been inferred by more than one person that due to the fact that the captive bred Bearded population is descended from a relatively small original breeding pool, that none, or at least a very small percentage of the current captive population is free of adeno. Unless you are also stating that all or most of the original animals that are the founding stock were infected with Adeno back then, this statement makes absolutely no logical sense. If you are indeed stating that the founder stock were all, or virtually all, infected, then all beardies since the 70's must have had Adeno. You can't have this one both ways.

The statement has also been made that since Denise is the only one to publicly proclaim her colony Adeno free, her statements are suspect since all others that have tested have had at least some positive test results. Has no one but me ever heard of a Bell Curve? If you take as a given that at least a significant portion of CB Beardies are Adeno free, then the Laws of Probability not only say a virus free colony is possible, it is entirely probable.

I personally do not know Denise at all. I have no way of knowing the veracity of her statements. However, given what has been posted as "evidence" so far, statements like the one below drawing final conclusions smack of witch hunt without any real evidence of wrongdoing

There is one more pulling this same stunt, however that one will not get the chance to run with hers either. I am all over that one as well.

John, you can bet if it is a scam, I will be all over it. I can not stand it when people can not tell the truth.

Vickie called them, this is what they told her:

Originally Posted by Dachiu
PLEASE NOTE :
California Avian Laboratory is a diagnostic and consultative support for avian/exotic veterinarians ONLY. It has been requested by them that no one contact them directly - but instead please have your veterinarian contact them with any questions on the testing methods available through their lab.


However, they do not offer atadenovirus testing for bearded dragons.

Originally Posted by Saladragon: Funny, Vickie, that's not what they told me yesterday morning when I called them.

After finally getting fed up with the attacks on Denise, I asked her for the name of the lab, called them, and was informed that YES they do PCR testing for bearded dragons, only through a vet. The man I spoke with was not very happy with me calling, and made that very clear to me.

Perhaps the person you spoke with was tired of the lab being harassed for Denise's test results and NOT information about the testing they offer...despite what is being told to everyone on here?

Originally Posted by: draggintails I have never called this lab, but I did call Studio City Animal Hospital one time and one time only ...looking for a lab, NEVER asking for anyone's test results...there are actually people interested in doing this test...a breeder in Yorba Linda wants a vet that will pull blood and do this test......that hospital called me several times with no luck.

The people wanting to test this way...your dragon has to have a systematic infection for the detection of the virus with this blood test....this test is unreliable to detect adenovirus in a dragon without viremia circulating through the blood.

Cat_72: I already spoke with my vet, and he will be letting me know tomorrow what they are offering as well.

The truth will be out real soon, but here is their service guide.

California Avian Laboratory:

http://www.californiaavianlaboratory...202-2006nf.pdf

Originally Posted by varnyard

This is the only problem I really have with this picture. To make the claim to be the only one of two that had clean tests on this virus, IMO needs to be backed up with facts.

I agree whole heartedly!! And the day she advertises to have Adeno free babies for sale is the day she owes proof to the general public.

Until then she dont owe you, me or anyone else a damn thing Bobby. I know if I was at the other end of your witch hunt and was getting attacked the way you are her, I would most likely tell you to go.... well you know what I would tell you. And I would do it to your face.

You people came out attacking her from the get go. No one came to her in a professional manner. You came with torches and pitchforks and then try and turn it around on her as not being professional. Please.

This is the first time she was asked that i know of:

Dachiu: Denise,
Could you please let us know what lab your vet used to run the swab and blood PCR that you had done on your dragons? I dont want to see your results - I just want to know which lab was used.

Thanks in advance for this info,
Vickie

This was an attack?

This was her answer the very first time:

Denisebme: One word. No. After I posted my Vet information to this forum I was informed by my Vet that people were calling her office to try to get information about me. I have an obligation and a responsibility to provide my test results and a means to verify them to people considering buying from me, but I have NO obligation to put my information on a public forum, it just seems to encourage people to attempt to violate my privacy.

Sammy, maybe you need to go back and reread again. What you stated above is far from fact.

Originally Posted by varnyard

This is the first time she was asked that i know of:



This was an attack?

This was her answer the very first time:




Sammy, maybe you need to go back and reread again. What you stated above is far from fact.

No, Bobby...that was the first time she was asked publicly. What you're leaving out is that someone has been calling her vet claiming to be her, in an attempt to get her test results. This started back in January, shortly after Denise made her first public post that she had an Adeno free breeding colony. And no...I'm not accusing anyone directly because nobody seems to know who that was, including me.

By the time Vickie asked her publicly, she had already been made aware that her test results were being requested. Again, notice I'm saying TEST RESULTS...not what lab, or what was testing had been conducted.

Originally Posted by Saladragon

No, Bobby...that was the first time she was asked publicly. What you're leaving out is that someone has been calling her vet claiming to be her, in an attempt to get her test results. This started back in January, shortly after Denise made her first public post that she had an Adeno free breeding colony. And no...I'm not accusing anyone directly because nobody seems to know who that was, including me.

By the time Vickie asked her publicly, she had already been made aware that her test results were being requested. Again, notice I'm saying TEST RESULTS...not what lab, or what was testing had been conducted.

I do not know about any of that, it was after that question was asked that I got involved.

However, Vickie did not ask her for her results or her vets info, she only asked for the lab they used. She was also very respectful in her question.

The fact that some babies died as a result of infection would indicate that acute infection may be a problem with susceptible dragons or with certain strains of the virus (of which there are many).

I still wonder where all the dead dragons are. The 10-15% of Wendy's offspring from one year notwithstanding, where are they? Are any large breeders having similar die-off rates?

Please Bobby. What I stated is STONE COLD FACT. She politely gave a legitimate answer and from then on YOU labeled her a liar and have attacked her up one side and down the other. WITH NO PROOF. Nothing but speculation. SPECULATION Bobby.

Everything I said is a fact.

[quote]

Originally Posted by shrap

Please Bobby. What I stated is STONE COLD FACT. She politely gave a legitimate answer and from then on YOU labeled her a liar and have attacked her up one side and down the other. WITH NO PROOF. Nothing but speculation. SPECULATION Bobby.

This is (politely) Sammy?

Everything I said is a fact.
Denisebme: One word. No. After I posted my Vet information to this forum I was informed by my Vet that people were calling her office to try to get information about me. I have an obligation and a responsibility to provide my test results and a means to verify them to people considering buying from me, but I have NO obligation to put my information on a public forum, it just seems to encourage people to attempt to violate my privacy.

Like I said the truth will be out soon, If I was wrong I will be the first to admit it.