Inexperience at local pet store pays off

I am trying to teach my 4yr old and 2 yr old daughters an appreciation for reptiles in general, but snakes specifically. I have been working on my better half for some time and finally picked up a Snow motley for my 4 yr old. Since 1 is never enough I have been checking the local stores for a deal on corn snakes ever since the show I got Skittles at this year.

It paid off but not with a corn. I was at a local big chain store today and saw an expired sales tag still on the Florida kings containers. Next to them were some unmarked snakes. I asked to see what was hiding in the aspen and out comes what I believe to be an Albino Nelson's Milk Snake. He/she has brilliant orange and yellow. Can't be more then a hatchling. The salesman tells me he can't find a price for the "Carolina King Snake" that I am looking at ("the "Carolina" kings are much more colorful than the Florida kings") so he will give it to me for the same price as the holiday clearance on the Florida king - $34.99.

The store employees attempted diligently to find the correct inventory number to ring it up (3 of them). They checked the full catalog, the store invoices, the "expert" was called but they couldn't come up with the number for a "Carolina King". Eventually someone decided that it might be a milk snake but they couldn't discount their "misc. milk snake" price from $139.99 to the sales price without a major problem. So they kindly gave up and called it a Florida king and gave me the expired sales price.

I truly respect the store for honoring the price the salesman quoted me, even though the sale was expired and they could not come up with anything close in their inventory. They did provide great customer service and I will continue to buy many of my pet needs from them (2 dogs & 2 snakes).

I can't believe my luck. Hope it really was a good price. Seems like from the searches I have done, but most of the albino Nelson's milk snakes that I can find on the internet show a very vibrant red - not orange - like mine. Don't know how much that changes the price.

Anyway I'm a very happy new milk snake owner with a very happy 2 year old. Now we just have to get her to agree on a name. Since we don't know the sex yet, it should really be a fun time trying.

1 question though - can anyone help me - am I right in my guess that it is an albino Nelson's milk snake? From the research I've been doing since I have found this forum - it seems like it could be an albino Sinoloan too. I don't have a keen eye for the small differences. These are the best pictures I could get before I let him settle into his / her new home.

Here's wishing you all a Happy New Year and a year that goes as well as this first day of the year did for me.

I look forward to learning from all of you, the members experience and knowledge.

Jonathan Pollack
0.0.1 Albino Nelson's Milk, 0.1.0 Snow Motley corn

Insanity: Is doing the same thing over and over again the same way and expecting a different outcome.

Oops here are the pictures:

Good Find!! Looks like a Albino Nelson to me......I give ya $50.00 for it??

Great find. Their ignorance paid off for you. It's too bad that many of these stores have no idea what they're selling.

Hmmm, looks like an albino Sinaloan milk to me. Right now, there's an ongoing "arguement" about Sinaloans and Nelsons being the same species....also that all albino milks came from a Nelsons. Well....I don't really want to step into that discussion, but judging on the width of it's bands, I'd say it's a Sinaloan milk. BTW, you got it at a KILLER price!!! Nice going!! Have fun raising it and make sure you have it in an ESCAPE PROOF cage!! Milk snakes are the worst when it comes to escapes!!

Just my opinion,

Scott Nellis

Thanks everyone for the advice! I know it's hard to tell from fuzzy pictures what someone might have. In the not to distant future I will have to find a local store that specializes in snakes and take it in for identification - simply because it will drive me crazy not to know - and also to have it sexed for future possible breading. The orange is really brilliant. Hope it holds up as it grows.

Send him/her my way...I'll sex it for you....lol. It's still small enough that someone could "pop" it for you. It's a learned art, but nothing too tough that someone couldn't teach you. If I recall, the Barkers had an info page on how to sex snakes on their website, VPI reptiles (I think that's the name). If you had a clear photo of the underside tail region....sometimes you can tell by looking at the length and shape of the tail....how quickly it tapers after the vent. A quick taper is a female...a longer taper is a male. As for it's color....yes, albino milks will be just as brilliant as adults! The color does not change or fade. Now normal milks will darken as they age, but not albinos.

Scott Nellis

Originally Posted by Scott Nellis

Hmmm, looks like an albino Sinaloan milk to me. Right now, there's an ongoing "arguement" about Sinaloans and Nelsons being the same species....also that all albino milks came from a Nelsons. Well....I don't really want to step into that discussion, but judging on the width of it's bands, I'd say it's a Sinaloan milk. BTW, you got it at a KILLER price!!! Nice going!! Have fun raising it and make sure you have it in an ESCAPE PROOF cage!! Milk snakes are the worst when it comes to escapes!!

Just my opinion,

Scott Nellis

The systematics of the milks are a mess (luckily that is being worked on), the Sinaloans and Nelson's are closely related, but if I was going by "standards" I would have to disagree with you. If it was a Sinaloan most of the band widths should be similar in length to the longest one (closest to the head), instead the bands are fairly small along the body. Typically, "normal" Sinaloans have nice wide bands and "normal" bands on Nelson's are shorter. Course the "bullseye" pattern goes agin this, that's why I state normal, and of course this is only my opinion.
As to the comment that ALL albino milks coming from Nelson's, are you saying all the sinaloans/nelson's, (which is probably true) or all milks in general? If so I hadn't heard of that one, and I believe you are lending way to much credence to it, if it is a rumor. The Hondurans have a very reliable documented history, as do some others, not sure of all though.

Hmmm, I looked at the photos again....I really don't know. I still think it's a Sinaloan only because one definition of a Sinaloan that I heard of was that the red bands are at least 3 times wider than the white & black (or white & yellow in this case) bands. I can't see the whole snake, but it looks "Sinaloan..ish"...lol. Truth is, it's probably a Nelson's cross that is showing a more Sinaloan pattern.

Yes, you're right about albino origins. There's the Nelson's, the Hondurans, and the Rutheni's (a king, not milk...but that's probably questionable too). I guess what I meant was that there are a LOT of milk crosses out there that are albinos and not pure. I've seen Sinaloans crossed with Cal-Kings!! So, who really knows? I just THINK it looks Sinaloan to me.

Scott Nellis

Originally Posted by Scott Nellis

Hmmm, I looked at the photos again....I really don't know. I still think it's a Sinaloan only because one definition of a Sinaloan that I heard of was that the red bands are at least 3 times wider than the white & black (or white & yellow in this case) bands. I can't see the whole snake, but it looks "Sinaloan..ish"...lol. Truth is, it's probably a Nelson's cross that is showing a more Sinaloan pattern.

That's probably more correct, which is why I wondered about your original interpretation. Look at them again, the only one that is "standard" sinaloan length is the first one, look at all the orange bands on the pic around his wrist. Between all the photos, I can see many [triads], and most are barely twice as wide, many are barely wider than the "black"(albino)/yellow part. I know you can't see the whole snake in the photos, but what you see is the mid part of the body, which is where they should be the widest. I can see where it is getting confusing, as there are a lot of albino Nelson's (what I call b-grade) that have orange bands barely wider than the rest of the triads, and some even wash out (almost no orange) towards the tail.

Originally Posted by Scott Nellis

Yes, you're right about albino origins. There's the Nelson's, the Hondurans, and the Rutheni's (a king, not milk...but that's probably questionable too). I guess what I meant was that there are a LOT of milk crosses out there that are albinos and not pure. I've seen Sinaloans crossed with Cal-Kings!! So, who really knows? I just THINK it looks Sinaloan to me.

Scott Nellis

Yes, while I disagreed with your original statement,

all albino milks came from a Nelsons

if you mean to say, "be careful of your source, as many unethical breeders will take the cheap route and use nelson's to make albino's", and/or, that some lines are suspect, then I agree with you wholeheartedly.