Bad Guy Adam Wysocki - No response

[catawhat]

Ingrid, I'm glad he's gonna take care of you. That sounds like the Adam I know and I'm sure you won't be disappointed with the animal you receive.

Thanks Walt. I have never been disappointed with one yet. As usual, he picked out an outstanding animal that he knew I would love. I knew something had to be very wrong when I couldn't get ahold of him.

 

[Southern Wolf]

Sam.. .Im not gonna flame.. and Im not a hater. I call things the way I see them. Adam admits to having a debt to repay. He admited it on another forum and again to a member here that he met at a very recent show.

If you have a debt to repay... pay it. I could care less about his success and there definitely is no jealousy or agenda... as my primarily species is not Ball Pythons.... relatively speaking... probably only 1-2% of my animals is BP's. That is not where my interest lies.

He admited to owing a debt... he should pay it. I would love to see the OP's proof... but we do have Adam's admission.

 

[Gecko_Den]

Sam.. .Im not gonna flame.. and Im not a hater. I call things the way I see them. Adam admits to having a debt to repay. He admited it on another forum and again to a member here that he met at a very recent show.

If you have a debt to repay... pay it. I could care less about his success and there definitely is no jealousy or agenda... as my primarily species is not Ball Pythons.... relatively speaking... probably only 1-2% of my animals is BP's. That is not where my interest lies.

He admited to owing a debt... he should pay it. I would love to see the OP's proof... but we do have Adam's admission.

Things are never so black and white Kevin, often times they are a shade of gray. In this case there appears to be some sort of gray... There hasn't been any info shown to determine what the cause is for the delay in payment. If it is proven that 100% of the fault lies with Adam, then shame on him and he deserves whatever he gets, but until I see such proof I'm not willing to hang this all on Adam. He deserves to take heat for not staying in contact with people, but I still have a feeling that the OP isn't as faultless in this situation as he would have everyone believe.

You've been around here long enough to know that many times the deeper you dig into the initial posts on a bad guy thread the more the story stinks. Which is why usually the accuser is asked to provide proof at the beginning. How many times has a person come here with an accusation only to have it turn out 10 pages later that the actual story was completely different then it was initially laid out?

That's all I've been saying from the get go, lets get all the facts before we throw the rope over the tree branch. Absolutely Adam hasn't handled this situation very well, but I would think that people would want to see verifiable facts before tearing him down....

 

[Southern Wolf]

Like I said... I want to see the OP's proof. And since its not been very forth coming... Im sure something is not quite right.... but what I do have is Adam saying on two different occasions that he owes the OP some money.

 

[Gecko_Den]

Like I said... I want to see the OP's proof. And since its not been very forth coming... Im sure something is not quite right.... but what I do have is Adam saying on two different occasions that he owes the OP some money.

I hear you, but we don't know what they have said to each other since then...

I'm only speculating and this should in no way be taken as fact, but how do we know the conversation hasn't gone something like:

Adam: Hey the CITES originally ran out because you weren't ready for delivery, what would you like to do, get a refund, or pick different snakes?

OP: Well, I see you are incubating XXX morph, could I get some of those when they hatch instead?

Adam: Sure, I'll let you know when they are out of the egg and ready to go

OP: OK, I look forward to it.

Adam: Hey are you ready for these XXX morphs?

OP: Well, the the BP market is in the tank so I don't think OI want those anymore, can I just get what I originally ordered?

Adam: Well, I don't have those available anymore, I can try to get them or just refund you.

OP: Well, OK a refund will work, but not what i originally paid, I could have made $XXXX more if I would have already had what you were going to send me so now i want $XXXX instead.

Adam: Well, I want to work with you, but that's not what I'm willing to pay you, I'll give you the original $XXXX back and toss in XX Morph for your troubles

OP: let me think about it....

Etc, Etc, Etc....

That's just one of a hundred different scenarios; without anyone showing correspondence, we don't know what exactly has been discussed or agreed upon over the course of the last 2 years.

 

[waltah!]

Like I said... I want to see the OP's proof. And since its not been very forth coming... Im sure something is not quite right.... but what I do have is Adam saying on two different occasions that he owes the OP some money.

Keep in mind that it was months ago when Adam posted about the situation. Only 2 people really know what's been said and done since then. Adam hasn't been here for personal reasons or because he simply doesn't want to. The OP hasn't posted any recent (or any) communication between them.

 

[deborahbroadus]

The problem is we have no way of knowing what is holding up the payment. It could be the OP saying one thing here on the forums and then making completely different arrangements with Adam. No one knows for sure except those two, Adam hasn't addressed any of the allegations, other than a vague reference in a post that pre-dates this thread on another site. The Original poster hasn't chosen to show any proof to his claims, time line, or correspondence between himself and Adam, even though he stated he was willing and able to do so. For all we know every time He and Adam worked out an arrangement the OP changed his mind and wanted something else, wouldn't be the first time that has happened to any number of sellers. There hasn't been enough info posted or proven one way or the other to say if one or both of them are at fault here; not that that has stopped many from calling for Adam's head. If it weren't for the fact that some people were jealous of Adams early success and/or have their own agendas to further, then the OP would have been compelled into showing his proof before the haters whipped the lemmings into a frenzy...

Personally, I think it is probably a combination of things with fault on both Adam and the OP, but until someone actually posts up some concrete, verifiable facts then there is just no way to know the real story.

*Flame on haters*

One of Fauna uses is to give aid to those customers who are having issues with breeders. What I am seeing is that members are holding back more so than attacking (probably BECAUSE they want to give Adam the benefit of a doubt), but most of us aren't going to stand for having our intelligence insulted.

I don't think any of us are "haters." Why do you think that this breeder should get the benefit of a doubt when he has ADMITTED he owes money? I read those posts on Bp-net when they were first posted. Not only that, but other customers have recently come forth.

Actually, IMO, it doesn't say much to Adam's credit that those customers had to POST HERE BEFORE THEY GOT THEIR ISSUES RESOLVED. It's all well and good to take care of business after being prodded, but I am not convinced that he would have done anything to resolve the issues if they hadn't posted (but that's me).

So far, the facts, as I have read them, are:

Adam owes this African customer some money (yet to be resolved)
Other customers have come out and spoken up (sometimes having a heavy rep can intimidate customers)
Adam rushed to resolve the smaller amounts but has yet to resolve (as far as I know) the main cause of this thread.

Doesn't sound as if anyone is "hating' when those facts are presented and stand on their own merit.

 

[Cp3_Pythons]

I know first hand Adam is a hard gentleman to get ahold of. I bought an Adult Female Bp from him at the Richmond Reptile Expo on 3-28-10. I tried emailing him and calling him regarding the Adult Female I purchased But I never recived a response from him nor a phone call back. The Bp is in great health. I just had some questions regarding the Bp that I forgot to ask about when I purchased her ( Her current feed and if she had been breed before)

 

[Marleysbeard]

I'm curious about the admission on the other forum. I was sent a link via PM since they aren't allowed here and I seen nothing even close to an admission, only Adam say he had pm'd the guy.

Is this the admission everyones talking about or is there another post?

If so and so said that he said that he owes the op money... well obviously that isn't an admission either.

IMO if there is no actual evidence and prior to this Adam had a great reputation then everyone shouldn't be so quick to believe the worst. Its like believing a complete stranger over a close friend without evidence, just doesn't make sense. Seems to me a neutral stance should be taken until something substantial is presented in the way of proof.

Also while Adams silence is not helping him neither is the OPs. It still remains to be seen why when asked for proof he disappeared. He was posting regularly before that point.

Just my 2 cents

 

[Gecko_Den]

I'm curious about the admission on the other forum. I was sent a link via PM since they aren't allowed here and I seen nothing even close to an admission, only Adam say he had pm'd the guy.

Is this the admission everyones talking about or is there another post?

If so and so said that he said that he owes the op money... well obviously that isn't an admission either.

IMO if there is no actual evidence and prior to this Adam had a great reputation then everyone shouldn't be so quick to believe the worst. Its like believing a complete stranger over a close friend without evidence, just doesn't make sense. Seems to me a neutral stance should be taken until something substantial is presented in the way of proof.

Also while Adams silence is not helping him neither is the OPs. It still remains to be seen why when asked for proof he disappeared. He was posting regularly before that point.

Just my 2 cents

The closest I saw Adam admit to anything was when he posted that "Several mistakes were made, he accepts full responsibility for the mistakes and has offered a resolution that was happily accepted". No further details were offered by either party.

Of course Mr. Locke hasn't exactly been consistent with his version of the details in his posts at the various websites:

I ordered and paid for 17 Ball Pythons in February 2008. Due to living in South Africa, CITES requires a number of permits to be issued. Adam was unable to obtain all the relevant permits and subsequently agreed to cancel the transaction and refund my money.

yes i paid in full in February 2008 for five ball Pythons and then a further payment last year June for a further 10 normal Females.

I am going to put together a detailed timeline so it can't be said that i did not detail all the facts but the summary is I ordered 17 snakes, $4750 & $1000 paid in full, have not received any snakes and mutually agreed to cancel the transaction and get refunded in full but that's where it ended.

I do have all the invoices, proof of payments and countless emails of promises and more promises. I just want him to get back to me and respond to my emails. I have also phoned and left messages in the past but with no luck.

Hopefully he will get back to me after hearing of this thread. I am out of pocket of $5000 and I can't just forget about that

It seems Mr. Locke can't quite figure out exactly how many snakes he ordered or how much he actually paid. Just one more reason that it would be nice if he posted the invoices, receipts, correspondence, and timeline that he said he would provide.....

 

[mikeyt]

While I dont know the ins and outs and all the details of this situation, one thing does seem to stand out here as Deb has said. Adam has admitted to owing money, Adam has said that he would take care of it (and yet has not), Adam (per personal communication as of just yesterday) admitted to there being an issue.

The OP should post some proof, but the things mentioned above do have merit on their own. Adams reluctance to address the situation, whether to the OP or here in this thread, wreaks of bad business practices and does not stand well for his character.

I to appreciate what Adam has tried to do for this hobby by starting NatPet, but it is hard for me to justify supporting an organization, or donating money to it, when there is so much in question.

And for all of the Adam supporters out there, since it seems to be ok to take money and not deliver, I will have quite a bit for sale coming up. Please send me your money, and I will get to you, whenever I find time from my hectic schedule of traveling and vacationing. Its ok, Im a good guy.

I wonder if you will all be singing the same tune when the shoes on the other foot, or will you be just as loyal and come here to defend me. NOT...............

Because it will be your money lost and you will be the first ones posting on here just as the OP has done.

Adam, whatever the case may be, whatever communnications have been made, whatever arrangemants have been made, you admitted to owing the man. PAY UP............

 

[jglass38]

While I dont know the ins and outs and all the details of this situation, one thing does seem to stand out here as Deb has said. Adam has admitted to owing money, Adam has said that he would take care of it (and yet has not), Adam (per personal communication as of just yesterday) admitted to there being an issue.

The OP should post some proof, but the things mentioned above do have merit on their own. Adams reluctance to address the situation, whether to the OP or here in this thread, wreaks of bad business practices and does not stand well for his character.

I to appreciate what Adam has tried to do for this hobby by starting NatPet, but it is hard for me to justify supporting an organization, or donating money to it, when there is so much in question.

And for all of the Adam supporters out there, since it seems to be ok to take money and not deliver, I will have quite a bit for sale coming up. Please send me your money, and I will get to you, whenever I find time from my hectic schedule of traveling and vacationing. Its ok, Im a good guy.

I wonder if you will all be singing the same tune when the shoes on the other foot, or will you be just as loyal and come here to defend me. NOT...............

Because it will be your money lost and you will be the first ones posting on here just as the OP has done.

Adam, whatever the case may be, whatever communnications have been made, whatever arrangemants have been made, you admitted to owing the man. PAY UP............

Mike,

It's clear you (and the others that keep regurgitating the same nonsense) either can't or won't grasp the facts that Sam (Gecko Den) has put forth in his posts in a much more clear and concise fashion than I am able to. Maybe you can go back and try to read them again and see if something clicks for you. If not, I can't help you (or Deb, etc). The BOI is built on proof. Not hearsay, threads on other boards, vague admissions of "something" or ASSumptions (to quote the great Wes Pollock).

Hope this helps.

Jamie

 

[SERPENTS DEN]

Mike,

It's clear you (and the others that keep regurgitating the same nonsense) either can't or won't grasp the facts that Sam (Gecko Den) has put forth in his posts in a much more clear and concise fashion than I am able to. Maybe you can go back and try to read them again and see if something clicks for you. If not, I can't help you (or Deb, etc). The BOI is built on proof. Not hearsay, threads on other boards, vague admissions of "something" or ASSumptions (to quote the great Wes Pollock).

Hope this helps.

Jamie

You do mean ASSumptions right?

I hear you, but we don't know what they have said to each other since then...

I'm only speculating and this should in no way be taken as fact, but how do we know the conversation hasn't gone something like:


Adam: Hey the CITES originally ran out because you weren't ready for delivery, what would you like to do, get a refund, or pick different snakes?

OP: Well, I see you are incubating XXX morph, could I get some of those when they hatch instead?

Adam: Sure, I'll let you know when they are out of the egg and ready to go

OP: OK, I look forward to it.

Adam: Hey are you ready for these XXX morphs?

OP: Well, the the BP market is in the tank so I don't think OI want those anymore, can I just get what I originally ordered?

Adam: Well, I don't have those available anymore, I can try to get them or just refund you.

OP: Well, OK a refund will work, but not what i originally paid, I could have made $XXXX more if I would have already had what you were going to send me so now i want $XXXX instead.

Adam: Well, I want to work with you, but that's not what I'm willing to pay you, I'll give you the original $XXXX back and toss in XX Morph for your troubles

OP: let me think about it....

Etc, Etc, Etc....

That's just one of a hundred different scenarios; without anyone showing correspondence, we don't know what exactly has been discussed or agreed upon over the course of the last 2 years.

 

[jglass38]

You do mean ASSumptions right?

Nobody knows what you are talking about. If you mean what Sam posted, he was trying to make a point that clearly sailed right over your head without being absorbed or understood. Can't help you there.

Thanks!

 

[SERPENTS DEN]

Things are never so black and white Kevin, often times they are a shade of gray. In this case there appears to be some sort of gray... There hasn't been any info shown to determine what the cause is for the delay in payment. If it is proven that 100% of the fault lies with Adam, then shame on him and he deserves whatever he gets, but until I see such proof I'm not willing to hang this all on Adam. He deserves to take heat for not staying in contact with people, but I still have a feeling that the OP isn't as faultless in this situation as he would have everyone believe.

You've been around here long enough to know that many times the deeper you dig into the initial posts on a bad guy thread the more the story stinks. Which is why usually the accuser is asked to provide proof at the beginning. How many times has a person come here with an accusation only to have it turn out 10 pages later that the actual story was completely different then it was initially laid out?

That's all I've been saying from the get go, lets get all the facts before we throw the rope over the tree branch. Absolutely Adam hasn't handled this situation very well, but I would think that people would want to see verifiable facts before tearing him down....

The only one who's thrown a rope over the tree is Adam and he refuses to come here to explain his side of the story which I don't understand why he wouldn't.

Like I said... I want to see the OP's proof. And since its not been very forth coming... Im sure something is not quite right.... but what I do have is Adam saying on two different occasions that he owes the OP some money.

Excactly

 

[SERPENTS DEN]

Nobody knows what you are talking about. If you mean what Sam posted, he was trying to make a point that clearly sailed right over your head without being absorbed or understood. Can't help you there.

Thanks!

Sorry I was looking at Sam's last post.

 

[Gecko_Den]

You do mean ASSumptions right?

I didn't assume anything, I clearly stated that it was speculation and one of many possible scenarios.

I suppose i could have also speculated that the whole thing was a set-up masterminded by the local media, city council, judges and local sheriff aimed at running Adam out of town as one of the possible scenarios, would that have made you feel better.....

 

[deborahbroadus]

Mike,

It's clear you (and the others that keep regurgitating the same nonsense) either can't or won't grasp the facts that Sam (Gecko Den) has put forth in his posts in a much more clear and concise fashion than I am able to. Maybe you can go back and try to read them again and see if something clicks for you. If not, I can't help you (or Deb, etc). The BOI is built on proof. Not hearsay, threads on other boards, vague admissions of "something" or ASSumptions (to quote the great Wes Pollock).

Hope this helps.

Jamie

Sorry, if I seem not to understand implications of the statement, "Mistakes were made, I'll take care of it" rather than "This is NOT true, but I'll take care of it" but I'll take your assumption about what Adam meant. Since I am obviously wrong to be merely taking Adam's words at face value and not inserting what I THINK Adam may have meant or how the incident may have went down. (I also think several of his friends said he admitted to them that he did incur this debt..unless I am misreading again?) But as I am not a personal friend of Adam, I have only his words to go by.

After TWO years (more or less) I might be sketchy on what happened too, but in general the numbers in question about any situation will be basically the same.

BUT you are correct. The OP should post what he has here. I have not said that he should not, and I have been waiting for that to happen, too. But I am not rushing to imply that the OP is fabricating a story, because in the same way of some for their friend Adam, I am giving the OP the benefit of a doubt, because it may be that his location may be proving to be a hindrance in getting online.

Regardless, Adam has had customers with issues come forth other than the OP (I can't forget them).

I hope we can put aside the "personal zings;" they are sort of distracting and actually quite a bore to read in the middle of well stated arguments. It also doesn't say much to the character of any that have to resort to "put downs" in communications that are primarily for the purpose of resolving an issue. We all type in different ways, and they come across to the reader according to their own internal garbage. It's quite hard to try and please every reader with the posts made, so I have long ago stopped trying.

I think I will now refrain from posting until the OP posts what he has here.

 

[jglass38]

I think I will now refrain from posting until the OP posts what he has here.

The best thing I've read in days. Maybe everyone else should follow suit.

 

[Southern Wolf]

The best thing I've read in days. Maybe everyone else should follow suit.

I believe that "everyone" would include you as well... .but you just had to take a cheap shot.