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Bad Guy Angel O'neil (qegalpal)

deborahbroadus

deborahbroadus

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Let me preface this with saying the amount is not large, and she can keep it, but I don't want to see it happen to anyone else. It's the principle of the thing.


http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1028462&posted=1#post1028462

This is her response:

qegalpal
angel oneil
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Delray Bch, FL
Posts: 34
Name : Angel

Trader Rating: (-1) Re: woma

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

he looks exactly like any other woma I have ever seen, on this sight and others, unlike spiders, they don't have any white on their sides.
You NEVER asked about a wobble or I would have told you he has one. some womas have wobbles, some don't, he was NOT mis-represented in the least.
a refund? I'll think about it.
Angel
Click to expand...

This PM was sent today:

Hi!

As I said, I would observe the animal for a week before making a decision one way or another. One of the reasons for that is because the animal did not behave like any Woma that I know when I opened the box and picked him up to exam him.

I would like a refund and I will return the animal to you. It does not appear to have the kind of genetics that I would want. IE..it seems to have a wobble.

I am not going to come right out and say that this is a Spider with a wobble sold as a Woma..but it surely twists and turns like one.

http://upload.youtube.com/my_videos_upload

Here's a vid so you can see the kind of behavior I am speaking of.

I hope we can settle this amicably and as soon as possible.


Quote:
Originally Posted by deborahbroadus
thank you again, it was a pleasure working with you.


Quote:
Originally Posted by qegalpal
So glad he arrived safely, I always worry this time of year, it's SO hot right now.
I'm glad you like his pattern. I had Ben Siegal's check his sex before I listed him the first time.
He was due to eat the day I shipped him, so he's probably hungry. He'll take one, sometimes two live mice, now to get those platties I've had my eye on.
thank you
Angel


Thanks!

He arrived fine. I have not sexed him or done much but wisk him away for quarantine. He does have the pattern I was searching for.

I am going to observe him for a week, but thank you...THANK YOU. He absolutely did not smell like ciggy smoke!!

I am sorry for the misunderstanding, and when I can check him out more throughly, I'll leave you trader rating.

Thanks again!
Click to expand...

The animal arrived without incident on Wednesday of last week via UPS. I opened the box outside as is my habit and had a tub prepared with pretreated Aspen and wisked it away into the shed. I did no more than notice that this one did not reek of ciggy smoke (for which I was thankful).

The misunderstanding was that she was supposed to ship him to my place of business and not my home, but apparently, I neglected to give her the business address so she shipped him to the address on Paypal.
 
Yeah, sorry...but womas don't wobble. I breed womas. I also have spiders. Pretty darned easy to tell the difference.
 
Sorry to hear this has happened to you Deb. I was not aware that Woma's had a head wobble. After watching your video, it looks to me like there is something wrong, or out of the ordinary for sure. Has the seller been notified of this thread? I hope you can work it out.
 
I am really really disgusted that anyone would ship an animal in this condition. Knowing the fears of IBD infestation and the need to keep the prime genetics and not incorporate the flawed ones.

I am just so disgusted that anyone would want to make money selling an animal that was NOT in top notch condition!!!
 
deborahbroadus said:
I am really really disgusted that anyone would ship an animal in this condition. Knowing the fears of IBD infestation and the need to keep the prime genetics and not incorporate the flawed ones.

I am just so disgusted that anyone would want to make money selling an animal that was NOT in top notch condition!!!
Click to expand...

But you were supposed to know to ask if it was defective. :rolleyes:
 
I'm no expert on the woma morph but I've always read that the main appeal of womas is that they shouldn't wobble like spiders.... I'd definitely be upset about this, it should have been disclosed to you and any other buyer.

As to the response of "you should have asked" that's :icon_bs:
 
Hi everyone.. For what it's worth Deborah; I had a male spider adult male almost identical to the one in your video.. I watched it all too.. That snake totally acts like a heavy wobble spider.. We recently sold him here in az and was told that he imeediately started breeding a female and what not and that he is fine.. I'm surely hoping he didn't wind up in Florida and then to you like this.. Lol.. I doubt it highly; but anything is possible.. I really wanted to just let you know that I'd seen and raised one just like that for 3 yrs.. Stress and any human contact makes em loose it.. But, ours that acted just like that in hand acted almost fine all alone in his enviro?? He ate like a horse and was a great snake.. My partner who specializes in spiders mentioned there was a 50/50 chance that he'd produce offspring like him?? Hope this might ease the health concerns??
 
I will start off by stating that my experience with Ball Pythons, Womas or any python, for that matter, is limited to my job. My passion is Boa Constrictors and that is where the majority of my snake knowledge lies when it comes to constrictors. However, in looking at that video, I am having a hard time determining if the python in question is Woma or Spider, though I am leaning towards Spider.

Either way, I would like to address this quote from Angel.

he looks exactly like any other woma I have ever seen, on this sight and others, unlike spiders, they don't have any white on their sides.
You NEVER asked about a wobble or I would have told you he has one. some womas have wobbles, some don't, he was NOT mis-represented in the least.
a refund? I'll think about it.
Angel
Click to expand...

Do you have any idea how ridiculous you sound stating that? Really? If you went somewhere, ordered a steak and recieved it with a huge wad of spit on it would you be upset when you talk to the waiter about it and he says "Well, you didn't ask us not to spit on it, so we figured it was okay"? Or, better yet, let's relate this to this industry. If you agreed to purchase what you believed to be a healthy, accurately sexed animal from someone and, in turn, recieved an animal that was blind, covered in mites, suffering a RI and inaccurately sexed, would you be pissed or would you just think "Oh, gee, you know, I forgot to ask specifically if the animal really was that gender and if it did not have all these problems, silly me". No, you would not, because that is just stupid, for lack of a more "politically correct" word.

If your TOS includes a health guarantee with an asterisk that implies "If you don't ask me if the animal is 100% Healthy, then I will send you garbage because you not asking means I am being honest" then you seriously need to rethink your priorities in this industry.

Let's ignore the fact it's difficult to tell if it is indeed a Woma Python. There is something wrong with that animal. It may be IBD (in which case, you better close shop now before you destroy other collections aside from your own and given your stating you have seen many womans like that, it makes me wonder), it may not be. If it isn't, then it is junk genetics. 100% useless genetics in an animal that was obviously bought for an intended purpose it should never be used for. That animal, in my opinion, should have been culled at birth, I do not care how much potential profit had to be eaten because of it, an animal like that should never pass on its genetics, if, indeed the behavior is from that.

While Deb may not be seeking a refund at this point, I think she deserves one without having to return an animal that will likely have to be culled regardless or even die on its own. I think she deserves it because you sold her a misrepresented animal that likely has a serious issue. Just because you did not mention it, does not mean it does not exist. I do not know if your parents ever told you, but throwing the covers over your head and closing your eyes does not make the bad things go away if they are really there. Also? Pretending it does not exist does not make it magically "poof" and vaporize.

Grow up and take some responsibility for your less than desirable business ethics or just get out of the industry all together if selling garbage animals you just want to make a quick buck on is what you consider to be professional.
 
Ill toss in my opinion here as well,


Its the sellers burden to disclose any and all defects of said animal unless it was already discussed,anything else and its omitting the truth . a Full refund should given once the animal returned.And i dont agree she should keep the said animal and receive a refund .
 
Tom Pecanic said:
Hi everyone.. For what it's worth Deborah; I had a male spider adult male almost identical to the one in your video.. I watched it all too.. That snake totally acts like a heavy wobble spider.. We recently sold him here in az and was told that he imeediately started breeding a female and what not and that he is fine.. I'm surely hoping he didn't wind up in Florida and then to you like this.. Lol.. I doubt it highly; but anything is possible.. I really wanted to just let you know that I'd seen and raised one just like that for 3 yrs.. Stress and any human contact makes em loose it.. But, ours that acted just like that in hand acted almost fine all alone in his enviro?? He ate like a horse and was a great snake.. My partner who specializes in spiders mentioned there was a 50/50 chance that he'd produce offspring like him?? Hope this might ease the health concerns??
Click to expand...

Tom, I know you're trying to look at the bright side, but we are too far apart in our opinions on breeding. I am aware that some have no issue with breeding a wobbling spider or kinked animal, and there are customers that will buy such animals without complaint; unfortunately, they aren't among my customers.:shrug01:

The main appeal (as Bad-one said) of Womas was the "lack" of wobble. I can't take dealing with this snake, because whether it's a wobble or not, its behavior mimics the symptoms of IBD too closely. In fact, once when I went to check on it, I thought it was DEAD (it is in an opaque tub) because it was resting with it's head contorted upside down.

I guess, I am of the mind that I can have a GREAT dog, simply amazing, beautiful coat, attitude, size..but it may have hip dysplasia or Osteochondritis Dissecans (OCD). Since I know that these diseases can be inherited, I would not breed dogs that had such predepositions and hope that some would be "ok."

I know that each clutch I hatch out, there may be some that will have to be culled because of hatch defects, so why would I diliberately breed an animal that is almost certain to give me defective animals at some point that would have to be culled? That is increasing the number of animals that I have to cull not decreasing?
 
deborahbroadus said:
Let me preface this with saying the amount is not large, and she can keep it, but I don't want to see it happen to anyone else. It's the principle of the thing.
.
Click to expand...

Hush!!!! You DESERVE a refund. In fact, in some states, you can get MORE than the purchase price on an action in a deceptive trade practice. Here in Texas one can get triple damages plus attorney fees.


You actually deserve more than a refund, you deserve extra money for all this aggravation and time you are spending on this defective animal when the seller knew of the defect and shipped it without disclosure.
 
ozz465 said:
Ill toss in my opinion here as well,


Its the sellers burden to disclose any and all defects of said animal unless it was already discussed,anything else and its omitting the truth . a Full refund should given once the animal returned.And i dont agree she should keep the said animal and receive a refund .
Click to expand...

Normally, I would agree with you, and I certainly do not want this animal. However, unless the seller can give assurances that the symptoms the snake is exhibiting are NOT IBD, I can't ethically ship this animal. I will have to cull it.:shrug01:
 
deborahbroadus said:
Normally, I would agree with you, and I certainly do not want this animal. However, unless the seller can give assurances that the symptoms the snake is exhibiting are NOT IBD, I can't ethically ship this animal. I will have to cull it.:shrug01:
Click to expand...

Very true,must be the lack of sleep getting to me .I assume it;sin quarantine?if so maybe have it there for an appropriate amount of time to rule out IBD and then send back? sorry im not so knowledgeable IBD.
 
I do not think there is really an appropriate time frame to rule out IBD barring sudden death. Considering that this is similar to HIV in how it acts, and every boa or python could be a carrier but not present the illness. The only real way of knowing is a liver biopsy.
 
lucille said:
Hush!!!! You DESERVE a refund. In fact, in some states, you can get MORE than the purchase price on an action in a deceptive trade practice. Here in Texas one can get triple damages plus attorney fees.


You actually deserve more than a refund, you deserve extra money for all this aggravation and time you are spending on this defective animal when the seller knew of the defect and shipped it without disclosure.
Click to expand...

Personally, I don't think she has the money any longer. What I want is peace of mind. I want to be able to ship the animal back, I don't want to have to cull it, but that's exactly what I am going to do if she has not responded by tomorrow night; this animal is N O T staying here or any where near my collection. So, for the sake of the animal......I hope she responds that she will accept the animal back and vouch for it's health in some concrete way.

Cause if I have to cull, then my collection gets locked down for the rest of the month (since I will not know the health of the animal).

....I need to move to Texas:rofl:
 
Wow Deb I am so sorry, this just seems like a nightmare!!
I understand you wanting to know for sure that snake doesn't have IBD, I'm just not sure that is possible. Especially given how the seller has treated the issue thus far, suggesting it was your responsibility to ask if the snake had any genetic defects. Which by the way is the worst customer service I have seen.

I am unable to play videos on my computer at the moment so I was unable to watch it. I actually saw the first 15 seconds maybe then it cuts out on me. So I can't offer any advice to what I think it is but from the sound of things it can be many different possibilities. Being exposed to extreme heat can cause stargazing, poisoning like treating for mites can also cause these syptoms. The truth of the matter is there is no way that seller can tell you for certain that snake doesn't have IBD and I don't think you can know for certain without a biopsy. I know there are tests that can be performed on a live snake but that will only tell you if the snake has IBD it can't with 100% certainty tell you that it doesn't. Unless this snake has had the wobble since birth you really are in the dark and have little options. I guess heat can be ruled out if the seller was aware of the wobble so it wasn't something that occurred during shipping. What is going to make a difference is how long did the seller own this snake and how long has this wobble or stargazing been apparent. I am just not sure I would trust anything this seller said by their response to you about this issue. It's a real tough situation Deb and I hope it somehow gets better for you or at least doesn't get any worse.
 
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