Bad Guy Guy Brunke AKA Guyco Gecko - Theif, liar, flipper

[Guycogecko]

Last and final thoughts

Let's see, Brittany and Merlin - My camera is not broken, i have simply not had the time to take new photos but I assure you when I do they will be better that the one Rick sent me LOL (No offense Rick, I appologize for using it, it was the only one I had).

Let's keep things simple here gang (since there are so many interested parties on this thread). Even though I have been accused in doing so, I never gave my word that I would not resell this gecko and frankly it was never part of our deal (check Ricks email chain-believe me, all he wanted to do was sell his gecko) and in my defense (not that I have to but I will defend myself) I have not advertised this gecko, it is not on my website and I really had no intention of selling it when I bought it, I just had a guy inquire about another Leachie I had that was looking for another one from another blood line so I posted to a thread, that's when Meg hopped in with her rants.

Therefore (since I have no real beef with Rick other than the bogus accusations and unwarranted BOI Post), I want to clarify for Meg what doing business means since she is obviously unclear about it. Doing business is actually completing a transacting between a buyer and a seller. The negotiating that happens before a deal is consumated is simply that a negotiation, not a transaction. There was no contract issued here and Rick sold this gecko under his free will. He never asked me to acknowledge what my intent was in buying it, even though I offered it and it still holds true.

So, to appease everyone I will restate my offer to sell the gecko back to Rick or, if he approves it, to Meg since she is so concerned, at face value anytime although I will charge Meg shipping because she's wasted so much of my time on something that's none of her business.

In the meantime, I will enjoy the gecko I spent good money on until I hear otherwise from either of you that are so concerned.

 

[bobtard]

Some emails are stored on my iPod. (obviously not the exact email, however I can get a picture of it)

RE: Leachie (August 21st, 2010 11:01 AM
Just curious, do you plan on keeping her or reselling her?

 

[Alex G]

Let's see, Brittany and Merlin - My camera is not broken, i have simply not had the time to take new photos but I assure you when I do they will be better that the one Rick sent me LOL (No offense Rick, I appologize for using it, it was the only one I had).

Let's keep things simple here gang (since there are so many interested parties on this thread). Even though I have been accused in doing so, I never gave my word that I would not resell this gecko and frankly it was never part of our deal (check Ricks email chain-believe me, all he wanted to do was sell his gecko) and in my defense (not that I have to but I will defend myself) I have not advertised this gecko, it is not on my website and I really had no intention of selling it when I bought it, I just had a guy inquire about another Leachie I had that was looking for another one from another blood line so I posted to a thread, that's when Meg hopped in with her rants.

Therefore (since I have no real beef with Rick other than the bogus accusations and unwarranted BOI Post), I want to clarify for Meg what doing business means since she is obviously unclear about it. Doing business is actually completing a transacting between a buyer and a seller. The negotiating that happens before a deal is consumated is simply that a negotiation, not a transaction. There was no contract issued here and Rick sold this gecko under his free will. He never asked me to acknowledge what my intent was in buying it, even though I offered it and it still holds true.

So, to appease everyone I will restate my offer to sell the gecko back to Rick or, if he approves it, to Meg since she is so concerned, at face value anytime although I will charge Meg shipping because she's wasted so much of my time on something that's none of her business.

In the meantime, I will enjoy the gecko I spent good money on until I hear otherwise from either of you that are so concerned.

I believe you did say you were buying her for your collection, several times. Even if we pretend you didn't, then it was a lie of omission because Rick's ad clearly stated he didn't want to sell to anyone that wasn't going to give the gecko a forever home.

 

[Alex G]

From: Guy Brunke ([email protected])
Sent: Sun 8/22/10 4:00 PM
To: [email protected]


Hi Rick,

I actually plan on keeping her in my collection but want to run her by a buddy of mine today who assists me with pairing my animals. I have two other Leachies about the same age but they are much larger (6-8 inches) and about 40-45 grams each so I am a bit concerned about her size so if it’s OK I will be sending the Paypal later this afternoon once I get back on the computer.

Last question, does she have her original tail? You mentioned it’s “teeny” in your e-mail so I just wanted to make sure.

Thanks,

Guy Brunke

Are you trying to say that you didn't send this email?

 

[hhmoore]

(No offense Rick, I appologize for using it, it was the only one I had).

The photo will be removed - a copy has been made of the current post, for future reference.

Even though I have been accused in doing so, I never gave my word that I would not resell this gecko and frankly it was never part of our deal (check Ricks email chain-believe me, all he wanted to do was sell his gecko)

I've checked the email chain...what I saw is this statement from you:
From: [email protected] ([email protected])
Sent: Mon 8/30/10 9:22 PM
To: [email protected]


Ya, that works. Have had no action on the babies though at that price, not sure why.

Doesn't really matter though, I'll be keeping yours.

And that is discounting the statements quoted in the first post of this thread, because I didn't remember seeing them in the email stream
I'm only willing to sell her to collectors or someone that will use her for future breeding...if you plan on flipping her, expect me to refuse the sale.
I actually plan on keeping her in my collection

and in my defense (not that I have to but I will defend myself) I have not advertised this gecko,

Funny, when I see a statement that a seller has others available, with a picture of the latest one in, and a price listed for that animal, I consider it that animal officially advertised...but I don't claim to understand the fine points of selling geckos

He never asked me to acknowledge what my intent was in buying it,

See the statement in red, above.


You really aren't very good at this...denying something that is in black and white on the same page takes a special talent. All you've done is make yourself look like a liar.

The whole offering a price, then, when it is accepted, dropping the offer $100 is pretty classy, too. Nice touch

 

[Abby]

Obviously, not everyone is satisfied with the way you do business *points to self*. I know of others you have lowballed as well. While I won't speak for them here, you can bet that I've personally asked each one if they feel like contributing their emails and experiences to this thread. They all have been given the link.

Your "offers" are insulting. You insulted Rick by offering 300$ shipped. And in that chain of emails you say more than once "don't worry, I'll be keeping her in my collection"

Showing up out of the blue, buying up GOOD stock, and selling it as your own doesn't make you anything but a middleman trussed up as a breeder.

As for not knowing who I am? Maybe search your own inboxes.

I was also low-balled on a Chahoua Gecko I had for sale a few months back by Guy. It was insulting, if I recall correctly he offered me half of what I was asking, SHIPPED.

 

[bad-one]

You really aren't very good at this...denying something that is in black and white on the same page takes a special talent. All you've done is make yourself look like a liar.

Kind of hard to deny the quotes of those emails. Definitely lost future business from me and likely quite a few others

 

[AndrewLiu]

Free enterprise does not justify Mr. Brunke's exploitation of hard working good breeders and hobbyists who have quite likely sold to him without the knowledge of his plans to resell. This is not a case of "flipping" as in selling the odds and ends of a project that has fallen through, nor is it a case of "flipping" when one breeder knowingly sells wholesale to another so they can vend for an upcoming show.

I guess by "flipper" you mean Guy tries to buy wholesale and turns around later to sell retail.......that is the business model of every petshop so why does that make him a "bad guy?"

To me this makes Mr. Brunke a "bad guy" because unlike selling to a pet store the breeders who have sold to him have probably done so without knowledge of his intent. It is explicitly stated in Mr. Mcjimsey's ad that the said animal was not to be "flipped". It is also quite clear that Mr. Brunke was fully aware of Mr. Mcjimsey's terms when he deliberately deceived Mr. Mcjimsey as can been seen in Mr. Brunke's email responses during their negotiation:

I actually plan on keeping her in my collection

Doesn't really matter though, I'll be keeping yours.

Violating the terms outlined in Mr. Mcjimsey's ad is bad enough, the deliberateness shown in Mr. Brunke's flagrant deception demonstrate to me his wanton disregard for ethical business practice.

I never gave my word that I would not resell this gecko and frankly it was never part of our deal... The negotiating that happens before a deal is consumated is simply that a negotiation, not a transaction. There was no contract issued here and Rick sold this gecko under his free will.

Are you Mr. Brunke suggesting that Mr. Mcjimsey or any other hobbyist should need more than an explicit statement in their advertisement to constitute as a terms of sale? When a person purchases retail and returns with a dispute is he exempt from the store policy because he did not sign a contract? Perhaps in the future we should all acquire the services of notaries and lawyers prior to every transaction. Schucks, just to be safe lets all hire witch doctors to ink our deals in blood!

I have not advertised this gecko

Yes Mr. Brunke you did advertise it,

The two JM Babies are related. I have others available too though that are unrelated. Attached is a photo of the latest one just in. Is a very pretty Island Cross. Asking $475.00 for that one and the price will be going up on the others September 15th so if you want them now's the time.

Any questions let me know.

I suspect Mr. Brunke's customers, who have purchased "flipped" animals, are highly satisfied because of the exceptional quality and hard work of those breeders that produced the animals. I wonder how many of those customers would still laude Mr. Brunke if they were to hear the testimony of the breeders who have supplied him. How good of a deal would they feel they are getting should they learn the same animals would have been available cheaper direct from the breeder?

 

[DD Reptiles]

Hi,

I figure I will post here since I too have had some correspondance with Guy, and I remeber his first email to me was probably one of the lowest "low-ball" offers I have ever recieved since I started selling geckos 5 years ago.

A few months ago I had posted some Eurydactylodes vieillardi (small green gecko for you non gecko people ) on various forums, Fauna, and KS. I was selling babies for $500, which is standard price as there is only 2-3 people (including myself) to my knowledge in the states really producing these guys. They are still a very uncommon gecko in US collections.

Here is the email I recieved from Guy:

From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: Eurydactylodes
Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2010 19:46:32 -0700

Hey Derek,

Saw your ad for the Eurydactylodes vieillardi-0.0.4 and was wondering if you would consider $1,500.00 shipped to So Cal 92592 and the Eurydactylodes agricolae- 0.0.1. Don’t mean to low ball so please don’t take it that way these are just a bid step for me financially and funds are a bit tight so I am looking for a deal.

Let me know.

Thanks,

Guy

So he was wanting basically a $750 discount (a free vieillardi, an agricolae, and free shipping). Thats a pretty hefty discount for someone I have never met or done business with previously.

This my response (sent the same day):

"Hey Guy,

Sorry I can't go that low, the best I could do would be $2,000 shipped for all 5 animals. I can do payment plans if you would need more time to get the remaining balance.

Thanks Derek"

I think a free E. agricolae and free shipping is a fair discount ($250 value) and I am very resonable with payment plans as I am a college student myself and know how it can get with low cash flow (despite common belief, gecko breeders are not rolling in dough )

Needless to say I did not recieve any response.

I believe Guy called me a month or two later trying to get a similar amount of animals for what I now assume to be a similar price.

Now I understand the free market very well, but atleast if I remember our phone conversation correctly Guy was wanting these geckos for his own personal collection. But after reading through this post I am starting to see a pattern here. Now, I understand flipping occurs in this hobby and that that is all some people do, but to me when I sell to LLLReptile or someplace similar I KNOW thats what they intend to do. So I give them a price and thats what they pay. Now if another private hobbyist/small breeder emails me and is really wanting to get into a species I give them a better price than I would someone who I know is soley motivatated by profit. I want my animals to be used to help further the species not as a bargaining chip for another bigger better deal. So to me someone who tells someone an animal if for his/her own personal collection and then turns around and breaks this "gentlemans agreement" and re-sells the same animals for market price after getting the animals at a "friend/fellow breeder" price in my book is someone I don't want to sell my animals to as I think higher of my animals than that.

Also, I was somewhat perplexed by this ad I saw Guy had up (if someone can get a screen shot that would be great):
http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=186701&highlight=guycogecko

Now anyone who knows anything about Gargoyle geckos (let alone someone who breeds them) knows that a 25 gram Gargoyle gecko is far from Ready to breed (as the ad implies). In matter of fact there is not a single Rhacodactylus that is capable of safetly breeding at 25 grams. Gargoyle geckos are hefty geckos and I think standard breeding weight is atleast 40 grams, 45-50 grams is probably more standard. I have some females that weigh in at around 70+.

Thanks,
Derek

 

[AndrewLiu]

You beat me to it Derek

Heres a quote from his ad incase it goes down:

* Pic 1 > RDS1M Awesome 17g Striped male

* Pic 2 > RDS1F 23g RTB Striped Female

* Pic 3 > RDS2F 25g RTB Striped Female

* Pic 4 > RDS3F 21g Bold Striped Female

Mr. Brunke please do not suggest to anyone that a 23g or 25g female gargoyle gecko is in any way ready to breed. I am sure the owners and the geckos themselves would very much appreciate not dying.

 

[Guycogecko]

I think you are all nuts

I really can't believe what I'm hearing here, having to appologize for offering to spend $1,500 on some geckos, veillardi or otherwise, really? All you had to do Derek is say no thanks and hope for a better deal. Why jump in now and hide behind a post? What's funny here I have never even done business with any of you band wagon jumpers, you don't know me and I don't know you, I don't get it. Maybe you all are watching too much Jerry Springer or something. Get a life and stop the drama.

Now, thanks to the almighty, do no wrong Derek, we're on to another subject, a future breeding group of Gargoyles that got thrown into the mix. If you read the title reads: "Awesome Gargoyle Deal 1.3 Striped Group". Maybe the text part should have said future breeding group but that's what I meant. To say I didn't know that is just another one of your inncurate and slanderous statement which you may be held accountable for.

In closing, just so you all know, e-mail communications are private/personal communications between two individuals and slander is a punishble offense. So you have it, in common law jurisdictions, slander refers to a malicious, false and defamatory spoken statement or report, while libel refers to any other form of communication such as written words (aka my e-mails to you). Most jurisdictions allow legal actions, civil and/or criminal, to deter various kinds of defamation and retaliate against groundless criticism which this is. Defamation is public disclosure of private facts, which arises where one person reveals information that is not of public concern (Rick/Derek), and the release of which would offend a reasonable person. Just as I was so accused of using the photo that I was sent for the gecko I bought and paid for I could say the same about the use of my private communications via e-mail. Please keep that in mind if any of you decide to continue doing so with no stake in the game, you may be held accountable for your actions.

 

[Mister Internet]

Bwahahaha.... man, this guy must have the textbook. Keep reading man, in the next chapters you learn how to "tell someone to 'cease and desist'", how to re-write your TOS on the fly, and how to email the owners of websites threatening a lawsuit because of "slander". My sides hurt after that last bit of legal brilliance... oowhahahaha...

And just so you don't make a fool of yourself in a future, copying and pasting your "legal advice" from Wikipedia isn't the smartest thing to do. Especially when you try to edit it to make it seem like you're not blatantly plagiarizing it and end up making it sound even stupider. "Defamation is public disclosure of private facts" ... hahdhdhdhhahahaha wrong.

 

[Meg90]

Its not called slander when its WRITTEN, its called libel. But thanks for the fun definition. Copy and paste are both handy tools.

I think this entire community needs to know WHO they are dealing with here. Your low offers, and turn around sales leave a bad taste in anyone's mouth.

There are more that have yet to post here. Derek was one that I was speaking about previously. I can only hope that the others will add their experiences tonight.

Just because you CAN behave in business this way, that fact should justify actually doing so? I think not. That defensive argument is just laughable.

 

[AndrewLiu]

Mr. Brunke

It is ridiculous for you to accuse "slander" on a subject you have just admitted that you're wrong about and that you should have labeled "future breeding group". Simply acknowledging your mistake already has destroyed the grounds on which you could successfully litigate.

Maybe the text part should have said future breeding group but that's what I meant. To say I didn't know that is just another one of your inncurate and slanderous statement which you may be held accountable for.

As a plaintiff for you to successfully litigate on a charge of defamation you must:

1. Prove a damage to your business profits

2. Prove the accusations made about you are wholly untrue

Defamation is public disclosure of private facts, which arises where one person reveals information that is not of public concern (Rick/Derek), and the release of which would offend a reasonable person.

Mr. Brunke you are entirely wrong on the definition of defamation. You're referring to privacy law, here is the original quote from the wikipedia article you copied:

Related to defamation is public disclosure of private facts, which arises where one person reveals information that is not of public concern, and the release of which would offend a reasonable person.

Since the negotiations in those emails were conducted under the auspices of your very public business, it is quite clear they are very much of public concern and do not offend any reasonable persons. Should you like to research it i am sure there is a wealth of legal precedent pertaining to this fact.

Please keep that in mind if any of you decide to continue doing so with no stake in the game, you may be held accountable for your actions.

It is you Mr. Brunke who should and are being held accountable for your actions. Clearly you have no defamation case against either Mr. Mcjimsey nor Mr. Dunlop. Not only will you be unable to prove the truthfulness of the statements made by these two parties, quite the opposite, there is strong evidence proving all their comments are true.

I for one believe that you defame Mr. Dunlop and Mr. Mcjimsey by accusing them of being slanderers. You call into question their character which to a reasonable person could be construed as a financially damaging accusation. You accuse Mr. Mcjimsey and Mr. Dunlop of applying "slanderous lies" to your statements while you yourself admit that you were mistaken in making these statements.

I do urge you two, Mr. Mcjimsey and Mr. Dunlop, to consider legal recourse should any of your future potential customers cite Mr. Brunke's defamation of your person as a "slanderer" when and if they terminate negotiations or transactions.

 

[carrienkashe]

Now, thanks to the almighty, do no wrong Derek, we're on to another subject, a future breeding group of Gargoyles that got thrown into the mix. If you read the title reads: "Awesome Gargoyle Deal 1.3 Striped Group". Maybe the text part should have said future breeding group but that's what I meant.

Originally Posted by Guycogecko

* Pic 1 > RDS1M Awesome 17g Striped male

* Pic 2 > RDS1F 23g RTB Striped Female

* Pic 3 > RDS2F 25g RTB Striped Female

* Pic 4 > RDS3F 21g Bold Striped Female

Above was copied from your ad - RTB means Ready To Breed. According to your own ad, how does saying they are ready to breed make them a future breeding group?

 

[xreinx]

In closing, just so you all know, e-mail communications are private/personal communications between two individuals and slander is a punishble offense. So you have it, in common law jurisdictions, slander refers to a malicious, false

from the info he put out, they arnt false

and defamatory spoken statement or report, while libel refers to any other form of communication such as written words (aka my e-mails to you). Most jurisdictions allow legal actions, civil and/or criminal, to deter various kinds of defamation and retaliate against groundless criticism which this is. Defamation is public disclosure of private facts, which arises where one person reveals information that is not of public concern

but it is public concern when you do what you did guy, you had an agreement, you may not believe word of law, but I do, and you BROKE IT.

(Rick/Derek), and the release of which would offend a reasonable person.

from the info I read here, your not a reasonable person, you broke your word, just cause it wasent written down, dosent mean it wasent binding, he knows what he told you, and posted what you wrote him. its binding.

Just as I was so accused of using the photo (He didnt give you permission to use it, thats part of the law, he has the origional in his comp, you, infact, DO Not.)that I was sent for the gecko I bought and paid for I could say the same about the use of my private communications via e-mail. Please keep that in mind if any of you decide to continue doing so with no stake in the game, you may be held accountable for your actions.

dude, that was his pic. you STOLE it, he didnt give you permission to USE it for your OWN personal gain. the point is, between you and him, HES Warning others of Your horrable actions! your USEING his Pic without PERMISSION, to sell something you had an agreement on, witch happens to be a animal you AGREED to keep.

I know not to do any dealings with you 'Guy'.

hopefully you do try and sue him.. maybe they will NAIL YOU to the wall (insert choice words here).

 

[Iraqvet]

Guy,I was wondering if you bought your business plan off of a crackhead??..Telling people your broke,then saying you sell hundreds of geckos in a couple months says SCAMMER..I doubt you breed anything,but I do believe you are broke..That would explain the flipping...Now that you say you have loads of cash,its gonna be pretty hard to tell people you have none and thats why you only offer half of what they want..You should give up animals and just work at fairs and carnivals selling cheap asian toys and sun glasses...

 

[Salzy]

To Guy: Instead of making threatening remarks, maybe you should re-think your business practices and work on making reasonable deals. You are simply digging yourself a nice hole here, and you won't be stepping out of it. I'm actually very surprised that you haven't landed in the BOI before and that you are getting as defensive as you are.

Stealing someone else's photo to sell an animal deserves more than a bare minimum apology in my mind too. That is completely ridiculous. I don't know how other people are, but I take some pride in the photos that I take and post. If you were to use one of my photos to sell a the same gecko I just sold you...I would be more than just irate. It is so disrespectful that it makes me sick to even think about it.

Buying and selling animals (flipping) is part of the business, and I understand that. It would be utterly naive to think that other folks don't do it too. However, you (Guy) go about it in a way unlike I have ever seen.

I wasn't sure I wanted to ever post this message trail at all, but I hate to keep hearing about this happening to other people. Before I had even heard about any of the other offers that Guy gave other people, this is what I got... (yes, people do talk and word gets around quick when feathers get ruffled)

We are offering up 3 of our gargoyle geckos. All in excellent health and eating CGD with occasional dusted dubia roaches. Buy all 3 and shipping is on me.

Spotted/striped male - 36 grams - $150 plus shipping
Originally from Repashy, but acquired by way of LAC Herps


Red striped female - 35 grams - $100 plus shipping
Originally from Harold Chapman


Reticulated female - 39 grams - $100 plus shipping


Shipping will be through Shipyourreptiles.com. My zip code is 54482 if you'd like to check for a quote.

Feel free to message me with any questions you may have.

Thanks!

Originally Posted by Guycogecko
Nice Gargs. Interested in the 1.1 striped pair but would take all three for $225.00 shipped if you are game. My zip is 92592. Let me know.
Thanks,
Guy

Hey Guy,

I'm assuming you meant to offer $325 for all right? That's definitely a possibility, but the $225 isn't.

UPS Next Day Air for a 10x10x10 box comes out to be about $55.00, which might end up being a little more or a little less depending on which size boxes I have laying around.

Thanks,

Kyle

I removed the photos, but it is still an old active ad that you can see here on Fauna.

Some people might not think that his offer is so bad, but seriously...knocking off a full $125 from 3 geckos was more than a lot in my mind. Is that even reasonable in other people's minds? My case isn't nearly as drastic as what Derek stated, but relevant in the same way. $125 off of $350 total is still a 35% discount. I don't know of many people who would go for that, not even to friends.

My first impression was that Guy was preying upon people who NEEDED to sell their geckos, and turning it around and making a profit. I just don't find it completely ethical whatsoever...business-wise or not.

What is said in the BOI becomes everyone's business, and everyone has the right to comment and state their opinion. What is exchanged in emails and messages between two people is property of both parties. The point of the BOI is to display the facts and properly make a case so that others can make an informed decision. Take what you've learned here and improve so people don't have anything negative to write about in the future.

 

[skanndelus]

are you guys serious?
he breeds and buys and sells geckos to a niche market that some people may not have access to. once someone buys something from you they can do what they want with it. i sold some geckos to someone and they flipped them, that's my mistake. what did i think they were going to do? hold on to them and cuddle them at night? i buy and sell items all day long, that's how a lot of people make their livings. did guy pay you? yes... but you call him a thief? maybe he had no initial intentions of reselling your gecko, but maybe, if the price was right, he'd be willing to resell... isn't that how the world works? i buy something from someone for myself, and someone offers me more money than i spent... if i need the $$ i am going to sell it 9x out of 10... you would too.

 

[skanndelus]

are you guys serious?
he breeds and buys and sells geckos to a niche market that some people may not have access to. once someone buys something from you they can do what they want with it. i sold some geckos to someone and they flipped them, that's my mistake. what did i think they were going to do? hold on to them and cuddle them at night? i buy and sell items all day long, that's how a lot of people make their livings. did guy pay you? yes... but you call him a thief? maybe he had no initial intentions of reselling your gecko, but maybe, if the price was right, he'd be willing to resell... isn't that how the world works? i buy something from someone for myself, and someone offers me more money than i spent... if i need the $$ i am going to sell it 9x out of 10... you would too.

as for him using your photo, it is fair use. you posted it on a public website, anyone can use your for photo for non profit. he isn't selling your photo... he's selling the gecko.