Bad Guy BHB reptiles "het" didn't prove out, won't fix it

[Amelanistic Orca]

People love to swing their weight around... I really don't.. Jay; with your "google me" attitude and nothing is guaranteed and I don't have it in me to ruin your night... You're scaring me... Seriously.. All I'm saying; plus some previous statements; skeerin me... Skeeerin me bigtime for the future of new beginners who think the best thing to do is buy from the "kings"... Look at simply how someone is treated when a problem arises is all I'm saying... He strung Dave along and just let the situation worsen.. In my worthless paperback books; Brian shoulda did something a year ago +... That's all... And now; all of this is beneath him at this point... It could be anybody here; and you're not worth it!! C'mon now... Dave is done posting; Cliff doesn't know what to think?? I'm just trying to help everyone see that this is what this site and "we" mean to "some" big guys/fish... Not worth your time... If anybody thinks that's cool... WOW! That's it... I apologize bigtime for offending anyone; I got enough red dots outta this and had none prior; so I have vested interest in this and at least a few believe in what Dave has said... He knew he wasn't gonna be "worth" Brian's time anymore; it was shown over the past year; this is him putting resolution to it... You gotta think; no matter who or how big you are; this isn't going to be addressed by Brian at all... Think long and hard; all of us mean that little... Scary stuff... As I stated before; is where I stand.. Sorry it offends...

 

[annmikeal]

I would guess the same reason he couldn't respond to David in a timely manner: it's show season and he's busting his butt to support his business, of which David is not his sole customer.

 

[brd7666]

Nothing like beating a dead horse.

Maybe we need a bigger stick, is that it?

Brian owes the OP, NOTHING. Everyone is so focused on the male, when the females are just as much in question. These females are unproven just like the male. Give it a rest. This is the biggest joke of a thread on the BOI.

I have suspected all along that the OP was only using bits and pieces of emails to make things look better in favor of himself. He has not posted the full emails, and to be honest, at this point it wouldn't matter anyway. Being selective with your emails, is dishonest in itself. The full truth is not known here.

Even if Brian said he would give him something, he has every right to change his mind. It is entirely possible that he did not have all the facts when he said he would give him something. The OP is withholding information, which ads up more things to make him look like the bad guy. Brian is not the bad guy here, the OP is. This thread should never have been started. It is way premature to say the least.

As for females retaining sperm, they sure do. I have a friend who has a female ball python, and she has produced three years in a row now, and was only bred by one male three years ago, and has not seen a male since. I had a female boa produce for me two years later after being bred to a male.

I don't believe anyone actually knows how long a female can retain sperm, but I know it's safe to say three years anyway.

So for those of you that keep focusing on the males genetics, give it a rest. The females are unproven. Not only are they unproven, you don't know if they have ever been with another male from a previous year.

Brian owes nothing to the OP.

Maybe we should turn this thread into a dead horse beating party. I will kick it off.

 

[Paul Kent]

I would guess the same reason he couldn't respond to David in a timely manner: it's show season and he's busting his butt to support his business, of which David is not his sole customer.

Not responding to someone after a few days, or even a week is understandable. But when weeks and weeks go by, I think anyone has time to deal with an issue. Even someone as busy as him.

Not responding to this thread (yet) after only a day or two (or however long its been) is also understandable. I just think at some point he should come and say something.

 

[Jay Sommers Reptiles]

People love to swing their weight around... I really don't.. Jay; with your "google me" attitude and nothing is guaranteed and I don't have it in me to ruin your night... You're scaring me... Seriously.. All I'm saying; plus some previous statements; skeerin me... Skeeerin me bigtime for the future of new beginners who think the best thing to do is buy from the "kings"... Look at simply how someone is treated when a problem arises is all I'm saying... He strung Dave along and just let the situation worsen.. In my worthless paperback books; Brian shoulda did something a year ago +... That's all... And now; all of this is beneath him at this point... It could be anybody here; and you're not worth it!! C'mon now... Dave is done posting; Cliff doesn't know what to think?? I'm just trying to help everyone see that this is what this site and "we" mean to "some" big guys/fish... Not worth your time... If anybody thinks that's cool... WOW! That's it... I apologize bigtime for offending anyone; I got enough red dots outta this and had none prior; so I have vested interest in this and at least a few believe in what Dave has said... He knew he wasn't gonna be "worth" Brian's time anymore; it was shown over the past year; this is him putting resolution to it... You gotta think; no matter who or how big you are; this isn't going to be addressed by Brian at all... Think long and hard; all of us mean that little... Scary stuff... As I stated before; is where I stand.. Sorry it offends...

Tom, with your hey I put my phone # and email on every post like everyone in the world is just dying to get ahold of me attitude(and can't find my contact info).And such... get over it Tom.You are the one who attacked me. You exibit some unstable behaviors.

 

[Kaa22]

While we're talking odds - I believe that Kevin McCurley and Rich (Webslave - not even going to try to tackle spelling Rich's last name! LOL) both came on and gave their expert opinions on the matter - specifically addressing hypo's/ghosts. And their expert opinion is that David doesn't have a large enough sample base of offspring to prove that this male is not indeed a het.

I know someone who it took them SEVEN years to finally hit a super pastel. Lots and lots and lots of eggs, and never a super pastel until seven years later. He had the same odds as this het hypo to het hypo breeding - sometimes bad luck just happens. So yes, it's entirely in the realm of possibility that:

a) they aren't hitting the odds
b) the lines of hypo aren't compatible
c) the het hypo females are the issue and not the male

Yes, bad odds happen. But what is the bigger possibility on it? 2 individuals with multiple breeding's on that het male missing out on the odds, or the male simply not being a het? I don't think you understood my post to its entirety.

Brian is not exactly a small time breeder, and understands his fair share of bad odds, no? Now with that being said, Brian obviously recognized a problem with this Spider het hypo male. If Brian thought it was within a large realm of possibility of those two breeders just hitting bad odds, or the line not being compatible; why would Brian offer compensation? It's clear that Brian had seen a large possibility that the het animal in question could in fact, not be het for hypomelanism.

Now with that being said; this thread was not created to debate on whether or not the animal was a true het or not. This thread was created to bring to light the fact that compensation was offered, and never followed through. Regardless of who he is, or what business he runs; compensation was not followed through.

 

[Kaa22]

Tom, with your hey I put my phone # and email on every post like everyone in the world is just dying to get ahold of me attitude(and can't find my contact info).And such... get over it Tom.You are the one who attacked me. You exibit some unstable behaviors.

It's simply business tactic; not pushing off how big you are. If someone knows you work with a certain project, like what you produce, etc... they don't have to dig for weeks to find a way to get a hold of you. Someone may not dig for more than 5 minutes; not find your information, and go to someone else......

 

[ozz465]

Brian owes the OP, NOTHING. Everyone is so focused on the male, when the females are just as much in question. These females are unproven just like the male. Give it a rest. This is the biggest joke of a thread on the BOI.

I have suspected all along that the OP was only using bits and pieces of emails to make things look better in favor of himself. He has not posted the full emails, and to be honest, at this point it wouldn't matter anyway. Being selective with your emails, is dishonest in itself. The full truth is not known here.



[:

I highly agree with these 2 points 100% , no one word should be taken for face value on the BOI , I asked at the beginning of this train wreak for actual emails with headers and was ignored and even had the idea of posting them declared unnecessary .

As for those claiming the actual statues of the animal being a het or not is not the issue here ,read the damm title of the thread, it became part of the main point when the OP named this thread as he did .


In retrospect i have changed my views on all this , the Current owner of the snake is the only person that can claim anything here , no one else is entitled to anything , u lost all claims once u sold or transferred ownership of said animal. Lost of potential profit from morph animals is a non issue here since the actual statues of the animal genetics has yet to be proven since the females he was breed to are also unproven .



Ps. if your going to neg karma me at least post your name on it or a comment , negging someone for disagreeing with u is rather petty , if u have a valid argument , fine ill take it .

 

[brd7666]

Now with that being said; this thread was not created to debate on whether or not the animal was a true het or not. This thread was created to bring to light the fact that compensation was offered, and never followed through. Regardless of who he is, or what business he runs; compensation was not followed through.

This is really a good point. The answer is, no compensation needs to be given. He does not need to follow through if he said he would give something. He has every right to change his mind. Again, you post without knowing all the facts. If Brian was not given all of the information from the beginning, and then found out new information, he has every right to change his mind.

The OP has been selective from the beginning on the information he has provided, which is dishonest in itself.

Brian really has no reason to respond to this thread. So I would not expect him to. He has no reason to defend himself. Brian has done nothing wrong.

 

[TripleMoonsExotic]

All this posturing aside...

What happens if one of the two who were actually in possession of the snake for breeding purposes bred him to each non-compatible lines of Hypo and still came up with no Hypos? They waist another year of breeding for 2-3 Hypo females (not sure how many lines aren't incompatible?) and end up with offspring worth a fraction of what they could have been worth had they used those females in other projects. Spiders het Hypo aren't worth what they were two years ago and neither are Honeybees. I'm curious what sort of compensation the masses would think be fair at that point. From a business standpoint, that's a rather large financial loss.

 

[annmikeal]

I agree that it is a financial loss, but he paid 1500 bucks for a snake in 2009 and now in 2010 expects to get an enchi bee (was in one of the emails David sent to Brian) which is for sale on BHB's website for over 3500 bucks. Really, you produced offspring, that you sold, then you sold the snake off, I personally think that you have made back your money.

The fact that Brian said he would give David something anyways, was big of him, but I also agree that he should not have to come on here and just give away money either.

And as far as David having the snake for a couple years and blah blah, in the beginning, it was stated that the snake is a 07 that was purchased in 09...

 

[Paul Kent]

As for those claiming the actual statues of the animal being a het or not is not the issue here ,read the damm title of the thread, it became part of the main point when the OP named this thread as he did .

Actually if you read the WHOLE title it says "didnt prove out, WONT FIX IT". The "didnt prove out" being a "fact" in the issue and the "wont fix it" being the actual problem.

And, again, Brian acknowledged the "fact". And is (seemingly) ignoring the actual problem.

So, like Ive said 10 times already, if he changed his mind, he needs to explain why at very least to Dave and shouldnt have ignored the problem for weeks on end

 

[brd7666]

All this posturing aside...

What happens if one of the two who were actually in possession of the snake for breeding purposes bred him to each non-compatible lines of Hypo and still came up with no Hypos? They waist another year of breeding for 2-3 Hypo females (not sure how many lines aren't incompatible?) and end up with offspring worth a fraction of what they could have been worth had they used those females in other projects. Spiders het Hypo aren't worth what they were two years ago and neither are Honeybees. I'm curious what sort of compensation the masses would think be fair at that point. From a business standpoint, that's a rather large financial loss.

If you buy a snake that is het for this or that, and there is more than one line, and some lines are not compatible with each other, and you don't ask which line you are buying. Well, if it doesn't produce for you like you want, then it's on you. How can you make the claim that it isn't a het? How do you know you even bred it to a compatible line?

This thread just keeps going with the same old junk.

Brian owes the OP nothing.

 

[Jay Sommers Reptiles]

I agree that it is a financial loss, but he paid 1500 bucks for a snake in 2009 and now in 2010 expects to get an enchi bee (was in one of the emails David sent to Brian) which is for sale on BHB's website for over 3500 bucks. Really, you produced offspring, that you sold, then you sold the snake off, I personally think that you have made back your money.

The fact that Brian said he would give David something anyways, was big of him, but I also agree that he should not have to come on here and just give away money either.

And as far as David having the snake for a couple years and blah blah, in the beginning, it was stated that the snake is a 07 that was purchased in 09...

I wonder if the OP(david) sold the "normal" babies that the male ,in question, produced as normals or poss. hets since they all swear the females are hets even though they have never proven out or may be incompatible hets? I hope he sold those offsprings as cheap normals and not poss. hets. Really unethical if he sold those babies as poss hets.

 

[Paul Kent]

Brian owes the OP nothing.

Does the fact that Brian agreed with Dave that there was a problem worth compensating him for mean nothing? And IF HE DID change his mind on it, dont you think it would be a good thing to know WHY before you assume hes justified in doing so?

 

[Jay Sommers Reptiles]

If you buy a snake that is het for this or that, and there is more than one line, and some lines are not compatible with each other, and you don't ask which line you are buying. Well, if it doesn't produce for you like you want, then it's on you. How can you make the claim that it isn't a het? How do you know you even bred it to a compatible line?

This thread just keeps going with the same old junk.

Brian owes the OP nothing.

Amen! this horse is starting to smell its been dead so long. I gotta go feed animals. Let me know when the vultures come.

 

[brd7666]

Does the fact that Brian agreed with Dave that there was a problem worth compensating him for mean nothing? And IF HE DID change his mind on it, dont you think it would be a good thing to know WHY before you assume hes justified in doing so?

Brian may have agreed before he had all the facts. Again, you don't know all of the facts, and none of us do for that matter. The OP was selective in the information he provided. The OP is the one who has been dishonest from the beginning.

Brian owes the OP nothing.

 

[Clay Davenport]

OK, the sideline bickering is going to stop. Tom and Jay, take it to PM if you want to continue arguing amongst yourselves.

I want to say keep the thread on topic, but I can't really imagine anything else of value that could be added to the topic.
Regardless, quit the personal bickering and keep the discussion about BHB's failure to follow through on what Brian said, and the overall worthiness of the claim.

 

[ozz465]

Actually if you read the WHOLE title it says "didnt prove out, WONT FIX IT". The "didnt prove out" being a "fact" in the issue and the "wont fix it" being the actual problem.
It did not prove out and was not tried to prove out as best as it could be,breeding to an actual proven animal would greatly assist in this .
And, again, Brian acknowledged the "fact". And is (seemingly) ignoring the actual problem. Could be true that brian acknowledge the problem , even so i agree the ignoring of emails is rather bad in my eyes., but since actual "proof" was not posted who knows?

So, like Ive said 10 times already, if he changed his mind, he needs to explain why at very least to Dave and shouldnt have ignored the problem for weeks on end,very true , but how about adressing the many other issues presented here? like the inflation given by the OP on what he sees as fair compensation and the fact that everything that could have been done to prove the het of the animal was not done?

Btw i tend to agree if the OP made money with the animals produced by this snake , were these animals sold as they appear or possible hets?

 

[TripleMoonsExotic]

If you buy a snake that is het for this or that, and there is more than one line, and some lines are not compatible with each other, and you don't ask which line you are buying. Well, if it doesn't produce for you like you want, then it's on you. How can you make the claim that it isn't a het? How do you know you even bred it to a compatible line?

This thread just keeps going with the same old junk.

Brian owes the OP nothing.

Brian did tell him what line of Hypo. It's in one of the emails posted at the very beginning of this thread. I was simply stating all the incompatible lines to cover all his bases for the BOI-naysayers (None of..."Well...Maybe Brian was mistaken what line it is..."). You still didn't answer the question though. What if he bred it to every last line of Hypo available and still produced nothing. We're talking three seasons wasted and several thousand lost.

Really, you produced offspring, that you sold, then you sold the snake off, I personally think that you have made back your money.

You're comparing a couple hundred dollar clutch result to a couple thousand dollar clutch result. Very poor comparison. It was also stated that he's making it right to the person he sold him too, so any money made by its sale at this point would be moot.




Ultimately, whatever this ends with...Keep in mind that it could very well negatively effect het sales. If Brian of BHB doesn't have to stand behind his animals, then any Tom, Dick and Harry can sell false hets at will.