Bad Guy BHB reptiles "het" didn't prove out, won't fix it

[dturner100]

I'm hearing a LOT of people kissing Brian's back side simply because he owns the largest ball python enterprise.

No matter who he sold the ball python to he still claims to back his genetics. That shouldn't mean "unless the snake changes hands".

Snakebytestv star or not the guy has proven his word means nothing here.

 

[rcpreis3]

Really? Come on yourself.If you had read the original post by David you would know that he clearly stated the females were VIRGINS! I may not have been registered since 2003.But i know how things go on the boi.Everyone asks for proof.If everyone in the herp world could be taken for their word than there wouldn't be a boi.I just want definitive proof that the females are hets.It sounds like they have NOT been proven so why is it the male thats not a het?

everyone is focusing on this male and noone has scrutenized the fact that the so called het females have apparently never proved out.I know a thing or two about tricky genetics and mutations.I have produced many exclusive firsts in my breeding history.Axanthic giant day gecko,leucistic spanish ribbed newt,and a new mutation(don't know what to call it)of melanoid axolotl.

Definitive proof?

I stand corrected on the virginity of the females, missed that part. Then yes the females are in question.

 

[rcpreis3]

BUYING A HET ANIMAL is a gamble. If it didn't prove out, it didn't prove out - no one promises anything when it comes to a het animal.

Where in this thread did he state the spider was possibly het?

If u breed an albino to a normal all of the babies are het albino, no gamble, no guessing, pure factual science.

 

[rcpreis3]

Ok after catching up on 10+ pages on this thread I see that people are repeating whats been posted earlier,

and then they repeat themselves,

and then they repeat themselves,

and then they repeat themselves,

and then they repeat themselves,

oh sorry I got so stuck in here I started doing it myself.

All in all I see this thread doing one thing fast



Lets recap for those who are still missing it


The animal not proving is not the point of this thread.

Lack of communication is a point.

Lack of following through on ur word is a point.

Took Brian months to not make a list.

Takes him 13 minutes to imply ur not getting jack



OK Im done

 

[WebSlave]

Where in this thread did he state the spider was possibly het?

If u breed an albino to a normal all of the babies are het albino, no gamble, no guessing, pure factual science.

Actually, that is only true in the case where the female is the visual expression of the genetic trait(s). In the case where the male is the visual, unless there is absolutely NO possible chance of retained sperm in the female from any exposure to another male where mating MAY have occurred, even in a prior season, then there will ALWAYS be some small percentage of doubt involved.

 

[rcpreis3]

Actually, that is only true in the case where the female is the visual expression of the genetic trait(s). In the case where the male is the visual, unless there is absolutely NO possible chance of retained sperm in the female from any exposure to another male where mating MAY have occurred, even in a prior season, then there will ALWAYS be some small percentage of doubt involved.

Wow I never heard of a female holding sperm for a year. Didnt even think it was possible. Not calling anyone a liar, just this is the first Ive ever heard of it.

Thats really interesting tho.

And now that u mention it, I remember a local breeder that bred a spider to a normal and got a pastel out of it last year. I guess that explains why he got a pastel.

 

[Payara]

Lets recap for those who are still missing it


Lack of communication is a point.

Lack of following through on ur word is a point.

Took Brian months to not make a list.

Takes him 13 minutes to imply ur not getting jack

On the side note you 2 (Rob & Rich) don't sleep either...sorry to side track the on going discussion...

 

[snakemami]

How many people besides me asked Brian his side of the story? I heard it... and now that I have I totally agree with him. He's not going to add anything to this post, and for good reason. The OP isn't an innocent here.... by any means.. maybe you should post all of the emails you sent... and not just the ones that show your "point of view".

And Tom P..... it's clear to everyone here that you are simply adding fuel to the fire with your insults to the big breeders... you want money here and money there... how about putting your money where your mouth is and start by being a contributing member to Fauna? You are certainly reaping the benefits of Fauna for your sales. Why don't you give back a little too. . Stop with the constant picking on people for the sake of picking.. You made your point, now stop with the rest of the nonsense already.

I'm done with this thread... the way I see it... there are two sides to every story and somewhere in the middle is the truth.

My lessons learned... If I plan to buy a het from anyone... I want a photo id and I want genetic guarantee in writing ahead of time for future compensation of what I can expect if the animal doesn't prove out with a certain amount of clutches.
If I sell a het, I plan to provide the same paperwork with the same guarantee to the buyer.

This thread has become ridiculous.

 

[rabernet]

And I'll point out the flaws with yours as well...

1) Doubtful on the het's. Could every one of his hets been fake/false het's misconstrued through sperm retention/bad odds/etc? Really?...
2)Although breeding it to a visual could help, it doesn't boost odds dramatically. He could have had bad odds, but that bad? I doubt it. Especially if Brian was willing to compensate him for what was going on. Brian must have understood there was a problem and agree'd early on to fix it.
3) Although not all lines are compatible, most hypomelanistic lines on the market are. If the numerously quoted het females were mentioned alongside the male Spider 'het'... and this were a big possibility, why would Brian offer to compensate? Hmm.

And by the way, you weren't pointing out flaws in my logic. You were re-iterating what you've stated before on this thread, and your feelings towards the topic. My logic was on breeder guarantee's and ethics coming to actually compensating David....

While we're talking odds - I believe that Kevin McCurley and Rich (Webslave - not even going to try to tackle spelling Rich's last name! LOL) both came on and gave their expert opinions on the matter - specifically addressing hypo's/ghosts. And their expert opinion is that David doesn't have a large enough sample base of offspring to prove that this male is not indeed a het.

I know someone who it took them SEVEN years to finally hit a super pastel. Lots and lots and lots of eggs, and never a super pastel until seven years later. He had the same odds as this het hypo to het hypo breeding - sometimes bad luck just happens. So yes, it's entirely in the realm of possibility that:

a) they aren't hitting the odds
b) the lines of hypo aren't compatible
c) the het hypo females are the issue and not the male

 

[sschind]

Not Defending anyone here just stating my opinion on it .

and as far as the time frame about "Finish Tomorrow " or whatever i been talking with Brian For 3 weeks now (or at least trying to talk to him) on a trade deal . and its next to impossible cause of him being so busy .

. JMO

That's a crock. Is he selling animals now? is he doing shows? If he has time to makes new sales he has time to take care of old ones I don't care how busy he is. I bet if I contacted him about buying a $5,000.00 snake he'd get back to me pretty quickly.

This is my opinion on the "he's a very busy man" excuse and not on the situation outlined above regarding the het snake. The two are not related and and I am not giving an opinion on that matter.

 

[TheVipersHouse]

Shawn its obvious your completely biased. I agree with Andrew , everything you are saying is a shot in the dark Shawn.

nope not biased . just cant stand the fact of making claims when they didn't do everything they should of before making the claim to back it up .If your going to make the Bold claim that an animal is not Genetically what its supposed to be you better have had done everything needed to prove it .

Honestly i have no issues with David or anyone else as a matter of fact ..
I would buy from Brian , David Bellis or Chris Huffman .

 

[Jay Sommers Reptiles]

Four females Jay.... The females have other reputable names attached to them as well.. Not quite my right to disclose... And to my previous post; I will not disclose the price paid by Cliff either... That's up to them... Cliff's two females are proven by the by; and with some bulletproof names I may add... Help a little... I can tell that you don't breed ball pythons by some of your posts Mr. Sommers.. No biggie; sit back with me and let's learn some stuff on how the big boys play in the majors... I ain't impressed by some of the actions; or lack thereof...

The big boys?The majors?

Are you serious Tom? You should do your research on me before you start talking down to me.I own what is argueably the largest collection of reptile and amphibian species in the world. I maintain a 6000 square foot facility with over 300 species (mostly geckos and amphibians).I am the creator of many new morphs of herp and I have far more experience in this hobby than you.And far more respect (given and recieved). I have probably bred more species than anyone on the planet.I lecture frequently and if you take the time to google my name you will se this. put in geckos and pipa anoles along with my name...Big timer. I just don't go around showing off my stuff or bragging much.I am busy and like my privacy.

 

[Jay Sommers Reptiles]

One more thing Tom.You clearly have some type of inferiority complex.Furthermore I don't need to breed ball pythons to understand genetics or to know whats right or wrong in regards to ethics.

If someone makes a claim in the title of their thread"het didn't prove out" then they better darn well be able to back up their claim.And they should post any and all proof/ evidence.

You talk about how much you hate the big fish yet you tell me to sit back and learn something from the "big timers" in the "majors"?Thats a contradiction. Have you done your research on me yet small fry? Stop attacking and antagonizing people who don't share your opinion.You have a lot of nerve speaking to me in a condescending fashion.

 

[Paul Kent]

If someone makes a claim in the title of their thread"het didn't prove out" then they better darn well be able to back up their claim.And they should post any and all proof/ evidence.

Hey Jay,

I think the OP thought that with the # of breedings he did that that (in his mind) that was proof enough to show that it was not a het as advertised. And apparently Brian thought so as well when he agreed to do something about it.

Ignore the bloviating. No one puts any stock into any of that.

 

[Jay Sommers Reptiles]

Hey Jay,

I think the OP thought that with the # of breedings he did that that (in his mind) that was proof enough to show that it was not a het as advertised. And apparently Brian thought so as well when he agreed to do something about it.

Ignore the bloviating. No one puts any stock into any of that.

I understand your point .Brian has clearly had a change of heart and has told the OP he was not going to follow through.While he didn't give a reason it should be easy to figure out. Now that the original point of this thread has hit a dead end, the thread has turned into a question of ethics. There was a lot of omission of pertinent facts by the poster and some of his associates.Everyone keeps refering to proof but nobody ever shows it.So the thread has transformed from Brian not fullfilling his promise to whether or not he should have to and if he deserves the posting and negative reference. I feel he has the right to back out if he feels he is being ripped off or he decided after the fact that he is not responsible. This snake hasn't been proven to be a het and equally has not been proven to be non het.This is a fact pure and simple.Alot of people who know apparently little about genetics are claiming facts that are erroneous.Nothing is ever 100% in genetics,period.

 

[Amelanistic Orca]

Jay Sommers: You have stated some ridiculous stuff.. I apologized I ruined your night... What I meant; was sit back and read/watch..

Payara: I used to contribute and want to, really I do.. I love the site, and I think the staff are the utmost.. Some of the comments and members here clearly haven't put themselves in Dave or Cliff's shoes..


I know it seems as though I may be adding fuel to a fire... I ain't; I promise... That male has been bred to four female hets; two proven, I might add as this has been overlooked and there really is a small issue... Now; if you knew me; really knew me; when I add gas to a fire; it's going big!! And; I'll stick around to put it out!! That isn't the case... Quite simply; some comments on here have me scared for the hobby.. This can happen to any of us... Still; gotta hand it to D. Bellis; the odds were stacked my man..

 

[Jay Sommers Reptiles]

Jay Sommers: You have stated some ridiculous stuff.. I apologized I ruined your night... What I meant; was sit back and read/watch..QUOTE]

Yeah lots of rediculous stuff ,Tom. You don't have the ability to ruin my night.Why don't you take it down a notch.All you keep doing is crying about the big boys stompin on the little boys.Let it go.

Stick to facts.

 

[HetForHuman]

How many people besides me asked Brian his side of the story? I heard it... and now that I have I totally agree with him. He's not going to add anything to this post, and for good reason. The OP isn't an innocent here.... by any means.. maybe you should post all of the emails you sent... and not just the ones that show your "point of view".

And what is wrong with Brian? Why does he not come here and post all of these supposed emails?

 

[Paul Kent]

I feel he has the right to back out if he feels he is being ripped off or he decided after the fact that he is not responsible.

And I dont think most people would disagree with that. But I think it would behoove him to divulge what his issue with everything instead of us speculating as to what his reasoning is. And if he did change his mind, than something should have been said to Dave weeks ago instead of (seemingly) ignoring his attempts to contact him

 

[Alex G]

And what is wrong with Brian? Why does he not come here and post all of these supposed emails?

I would guess the same reason he couldn't respond to David in a timely manner: it's show season and he's busting his butt to support his business, of which David is not his sole customer.