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Nutritional value of rodent feeders?

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Beachbabies

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Hi guys, so I have a stupid question, (as a newb I'm full of them!). Is there a difference in the nutritional value of different rodents? Should I try to vary my BPs diet the way I vary my chams and beardies? Can I try hamsters, gerbils, mice, rats, baby guinnea pigs, baby rabbits, and/or chicks? I was thinking if I set up a breeding pair of each (except the chickens) in the garage and just feed off the babies. I'm really bad with humanizing my pets, and I just think that I would hate eating the same thing every day, so wouldn't they hate it too?
Also, is it better To feed more small meals or less large meals? I've gotten conflicting advice from the LFS.

Domo arigato!
 
Snakes don't become bored with a certain type of food. Aside from the fact they do not taste things the same way mammals do, they just do not function on that level.
Humanizing pets is generally not the best approach to keeping most things, but with snakes it's particularly pointless, and taken too far can even be destructive or stressful.
Snakes must be kept for what they are, not what you wish them to be. They are creatures of instinct who derive no benefit from interaction with you. They tolerate your presence, but don't desire your company.

As far as varying the diet, I would discourage doing that, particularly with balls. There's no real difference between nutritional value of whole feeders as long as they have been raised on a good diet.
In most people's experience rats are the best feeders for balls, resulting in better growth and size than a diet of mice. Once you get your ball on rats it's best to offer only that prey. This is especially true with younger specimens.
A particularly good feeder, as many are, can be fed different things and return to rats just fine, but there's always a risk of getting them started on a prey item that is not as easily provided and having them refuse anything else afterwards.

As far as prey size, that's a debatable topic. It's a minor point though, in the end as long as they are fed well, and not offered prey items that are too large or ridiculously small, it doesn't really matter.
Personally I usually prefer to feed the same size prey every time, one which is just a little smaller than what they would be capable of eating. However, if I happen to have a surplus of rats a size or two below that, I'll feed two.
It's more economical in the long term to feed one larger prey item, but you can always just mix it up from one feeding to the next.
 
^ Not much to say after that, lol, good stuff. I have read about several people that have spoiled their balls with "treats" and were unable to get them to go back. I would only try switching-it-up if you have a non-feeder.

I've always been told that rats are more nutritious than mice. They have more muscle and fat than compared to several mice of comparable weight. Plus once the snake gets big it's easier just to give him one large rat than 5 mice, especially if its only eating live. I prefer to feed larger meals less often. From what I'm told, it's can help prevent impaction.

The thing with breeding multiple species of rodents is you will have different gestation, weaning, and rotation times. I believe if you are going to breed, it's a lot easier to maintain a colony of the same species. Order maintains sanity, lol!
 
Do a search on nutritional values - a comparison chart has been posted several times
 
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http://www.nal.usda.gov/awic/zoo/WholePreyFinal02May29.pdf
 
Wow, that chart is very interesting! Not that I've ever considered feeding a calf or deer to my BP, but it's good stuff to know. My BPs are 200-300g, I'm currently feeding adult mice, should I switch over to baby rats? They're not eating frozen yet, and I was worried about feeding live rats b/c I don't want them to get bit. On top of the fact that I have a HUGE issue w/ rats, they creep me out, the way they look, the smell, the squeeking, those nasty wormy tails. When I was little we had a rat prob in the house, my mom put out snapping rat traps, on my birthday I woke up and stepped in a puddle of blood. One of the rats got caught in the trap and ran around the house trailing blood everywhere and died under my bed. The worst birthday EVER!
Maybe I can talk the hubs into handling the rats ;) like thats going to happen! Lol!
Thanks so much for the info guys!
 
Beachbabies said:
Wow, that chart is very interesting! Not that I've ever considered feeding a calf or deer to my BP, but it's good stuff to know. My BPs are 200-300g, I'm currently feeding adult mice, should I switch over to baby rats? They're not eating frozen yet, and I was worried about feeding live rats b/c I don't want them to get bit. On top of the fact that I have a HUGE issue w/ rats, they creep me out, the way they look, the smell, the squeeking, those nasty wormy tails. When I was little we had a rat prob in the house, my mom put out snapping rat traps, on my birthday I woke up and stepped in a puddle of blood. One of the rats got caught in the trap and ran around the house trailing blood everywhere and died under my bed. The worst birthday EVER!
Maybe I can talk the hubs into handling the rats ;) like thats going to happen! Lol!
Thanks so much for the info guys!
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Wow, graphic story LOL. For BP's that size that only eat live, you are probably better off staying with mice or breeding your own rats. Finding live rats younger than "small-sized" is pretty hard in most areas (you may be the exception). I've never had a rat less than two weeks old bite any of my BP's and a 2-3 week old rat is what I would recommend for your snakes. You could always separate the spinal cord and feed with tongs. I've had good luck switching to frozen/thawed after doing this method for a while. I would get the hubby to do it because this could also be traumatizing. I hate "slaughter saturdays."
 
i would say that if you are going to be breeding ball pythons then you should keep them on rats. i have always fed mine, when i had them, rats and when i worked for a store in cali we only fed rats. gerbils are supposed to be their natural prey but if that is the only thing that your snakes will eat then if you sale them, to some place like california, the purchaser will not be able to get the food that it will eat and will have to work with the snake to eat other prey like rats or mice. i don't have bps anymore but i have one particular bearded dragon that will only eat phoenix worms. he won't eat crickets or his greens. i know this is bad for him and i also know that until he eats other things any possiblities for him will be as a pet for me. which is fine, but to even think of selling him to somone else who might never be able to get him to eat is a harsh inhumane thought. with lizards it is easier because they have a wider types of food available but with snakes depending on size and area the food selections become limited. imo i think for snakes it is best to keep it on common food items so that the prospect of food refusal is low or completely eliminated.

i don't know how far you are from san diego but they have milk mothers at the store i worked at and had live pinkies, fuzzies and hoppers delivered weekly for rats and mice. we fed our bps that size, when i could, peach fuzz or fuzzy rats, the hold backs. the ones that were to be sold in store were already eating mice. since we only carried live and i was to feed the breeders and hold backs it was up to me so snap the spine or what have you to ensure none of our breeders were injured. if you do switch to frozen/thawed ordering should be no problem. there are many sites out there that can fill your needs.

my husband also had a problem when i would snap a mouse to feed to the blue tongued skink that we had. he would leave the room until i told him the lizard was done eating.
 
Thanks so much for the responses guys! The worries when getting new animals is always overwhelming, but it helps to have a community to turn to!
 
There is no reason the fear your snakes getting bit if you stay there and make sure that they eat when you put live food in. Snakes have been killing food for thousands? millions? of years. Yours are no different. The only time you really have to worry about your snake sustaining serious damage is if you put a live food item in the enclosure and the snake doesn't try to eat it. That is when snakes get inured badly.

As far as what you feed them it doesn't really matter. Their eventual prey at adult size will be rats so I would try to get them on rats as early as possible to avoid any problems switching later.
 
ratkingrodents said:
There is no reason the fear your snakes getting bit if you stay there and make sure that they eat when you put live food in. Snakes have been killing food for thousands? millions? of years. Yours are no different. The only time you really have to worry about your snake sustaining serious damage is if you put a live food item in the enclosure and the snake doesn't try to eat it. That is when snakes get inured badly.
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I must respectfully disagree with this. Rats and mice are very quick, and will fight for their lives like any other animal. A rat can get a good bite in on a snake even though the snake has bitten and wrapped the rat. Wild snakes often have scars from past battles with their prey. Standing there watching wont help because the action can go down incredibly fast, with injuries done before you can reach in and separate the combatants.

I do agree it is very foolish to put a live rodent in with the snake and leave them alone together. As stated, if the snake doesn't eat the prey the prey may decide to turn the tables and eat the snake!

My conclusion is always kill the prey animal before putting it in with the snake. An exception can be made with pinkies and fuzzies as they can't bite yet. If it has teeth pre-kill!
 
Greatballzofire said:
I must respectfully disagree with this. Rats and mice are very quick, and will fight for their lives like any other animal. A rat can get a good bite in on a snake even though the snake has bitten and wrapped the rat. Wild snakes often have scars from past battles with their prey. Standing there watching wont help because the action can go down incredibly fast, with injuries done before you can reach in and separate the combatants.

I do agree it is very foolish to put a live rodent in with the snake and leave them alone together. As stated, if the snake doesn't eat the prey the prey may decide to turn the tables and eat the snake!

My conclusion is always kill the prey animal before putting it in with the snake. An exception can be made with pinkies and fuzzies as they can't bite yet. If it has teeth pre-kill!
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^ Yep. Agreed. In the way back when, when I had to feed live, I would stand there with needle nose plyers and have to shove them in the rats mouth after the snake grabbed the rat. The rat can sit there and chomp on your snake, while locked up, from anywhere to 30 seconds up to five minutes. Rats do a lot better than humans when it comes to lack of air.
 
i have seen pics from horror stories where people have left rats and mice alice in their snake's tank over night. the result, mostly full snakes, but you see some snakes missing large parts of their tails, bite marks all over, one snake didn't have it's head. i hasve seen first hand the marks from live prey on an albino burm that was given to the store because it was too aggressive. she was a good 6 maybe 7 ft long so she could have larger prey other than rats. frankly, it looked as though someone thought it would be good fun to give her a rabbit. the burms had long scratches down her neck and over her head. on top of that she had a respitory infection. she got better and after a few sheds you could barely see where'd she had been injured but it could all be avoided if people take steps to make sure the prey item is atleast paralyzed if not dead.

standing and watching wouldn't really do much good, after all, how many of us are faster than an animal fighting for it's life or a snake striking at dinner? if we were no one would be bitten by either and i am sure each of us have been bitten at least once.
 
Is it ok to just stick to baby rats? I tried a feed today, I killed the mouse first, but my BP wouldn't eat it, he sat there for over an hour, watching it and nudging it, finally he turned and took off. (reminds me a lot of my son and brussel sprouts!) I tried moving it and dangling it, and shaking it, he was definitely curious, but not interested. How big can a baby rat get before it's not helpless anymore? Can I just feed him those? Maybe a few per meal, or feed him more often?
 
Beachbabies said:
Is it ok to just stick to baby rats? I tried a feed today, I killed the mouse first, but my BP wouldn't eat it, he sat there for over an hour, watching it and nudging it, finally he turned and took off. (reminds me a lot of my son and brussel sprouts!) I tried moving it and dangling it, and shaking it, he was definitely curious, but not interested. How big can a baby rat get before it's not helpless anymore? Can I just feed him those? Maybe a few per meal, or feed him more often?
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I'm guessing he doesn't want it because the body temp dropped. Try soaking it in hot water for a couple minutes and dangle it again (with tongs LOL). Usually that will get them on it. BP's are picky so if he passes it up, throw it in the freezer and thaw it out a couple days later and try again. Most will switch after a good battle of wits.

Two week old rats are helpless. Three week old (weanlings) are borderline. I just went back and noticed your snake is only 200-300g's so one 2-week old rat would be fine every week and to be honest, if you are not planning on breeding, I would just give them one every 7-10 days. Slow growing is the way to go.
 
Ok, I'll try again, I just found post of stuff to try. I don't know if I can handle opening the skull, but I'll give it a go. How long can he go w/o a feed? He won't starve himself right? I'll try for a little while and if he persists, I'll try the baby rats again. I'll let you guys know how he does. Thanks!
 
He can go quite a while without food, longer as adults and yes, they can starve themselves. I have a BP right now that went 6 weeks without eating, ate three rats and hasn't ate in about 10 weeks. She simply refuses to eat any type or method. They can be fustrating, lol.

What do you mean by opening the skull? You don't mean force feeding him, do you? That's only a final measure.
 
One of the posts said to expose the brain matter of the mouse/rat, it's grossing me out just thinking about it, and when I brought it up to the hubs he said no! I don't mind feeding him live baby rats, I feel better about doing it that way than having dead rats in my freezer (between the cookie dough and the ice-cream) <gag> can he eat more than 1 per feed? Or should I feed him more often?
 
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