Bad Guy Al Brown-Browns Boas-Nightmare Transaction

[snared99]

This transaction with me and Mr Brown started in july when he started posting steel racks on kingsnake for sale. We were looking for a steel rack for our breeders and his price was better then the rest. After contacting Al about a custom made v-35tub steel rack(30tubs in the rack 10 levels), we placed a $500 deposit for the build to begin. He qouted us $1200 plus the gas for delivery, and a 4-6 week time frame(to be delivered the end of august). Time had pasted and he claimed the rack was ready for delivery and we paid the balance. After multiple excuses the rack was not delivered til the end of september, which put me in a huge bind since i sold the old racks these animals were in and some of customers backed out due to the delay.

Al broought the rack and set it up, and then left. We left the rack on to heat up and make sure it works before we placed animals in it. The next day everytime we touched the rack we were shocked. Here Mr. Brown not only never used grounds on any of the levels, but cut across the black inner part of the tape and didnt tape the loose ends up on some of the level. Here my patients are running thin. After a bit of a struggle Al gave us money to have the tape rewired from freedom breeder, since i was not going to have Al redo it.

That is where I thought it had ended, but it doesnt. The rack was finally useable the third week of october. When cleaning the rack, not the tubs but the racks, yesterday we noticed rust all over the heat panels. And there was also rust on the welds of the actual frame. So not only did the total electrical system not work but now i have a rack that is rusting in only 2 months of use.
I will post pics to come of the rusting. Most of our communication was via phone, so I dont have too many email to post. Im working on the email end, not 100% sure how to do it.
I think this covers everything thus far. Mr Brown has been notified of this thread and the problem, in which he has no intention of fixing. At this point im sure im out alot of money, but i want other to know how Mr. Brown treats his customer. We have been more then patient with this transaction, and think our patients has been taken advantage of. Also there is a dispute currently with the CC company and Paypal, also a IC3 claim has been submitted. I hope this answer most of everything, please post with any questions.

Pat Kline
www.luxuriousleopards.com

 

[snared99]

----- Original Message -----
From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Sent: Sunday, December 12, 2010 4:41:11 PM
Subject: steel rack



Dear Mr. Brown,
The last thing i wanted to do is contact you with another issue with the steel rack we had purchased from you, but unfortunetly there is another large issue. We have had this rack in use just under 60 days(delayed due to the electrical issue we had), and there is rust on every heat panel and rust showing on the cracks on the welds all over. I would assume a rack is not suppose to rust at all, let alone in such a short amount of time. I can provide you with pictures if you wish. I have contacted you to let you know we are investigating means of a refund at this point. As a breeder yourself you can imagine a rusting rack is not fit for your animals. Hopefully we can settle this calmely and in a professional manner. I appreciate your time in this manner.
pat kline
www.luxuriousleopards.com

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Sent: Sun, Dec 12, 2010 5:22 pm
Subject: Re: steel rack


We are no longer buliding racks at this time. I was only the middleman in the situation and none of the fabrication was done by myself... Jeff didn't want to continue buliding them... There was no warranty on the rack given or stated at anytime. And we do not give a warranty due to the fact that we don't know how the rack will been treated..







I would like to wait and see what paypal has to say about the situation...



Thanks,


Al Brown/Brown's Boas
PH:423-309-8871
www.BrownsBoas.biz

HI,
We have contacted paypal and the CC company as well as placed a interenet complaint with the IC3, assuming you will be contacted soon. The rack has been used exactly as stated with the thermostat with fattails and leopard geckos in it. Was the heat panels made with sheet metal?? Maybe that is the issue? We have spoken with freedom breeders and galvanized steel is what is needed to not rust. The actual frame is not rusting very bad, just in some of the seems, but the panels are getting alot of rust build up. I really just want a working rack that will last, which is exactly what we spoke about in july. I think the only savior for this rack is to get all new panels from freedom breeder or ars. I realy do not want to go through all of this and just want a working rack. As far as the middleman in the situation I understand that, but it was purchased through you, which places responsibility on you and your business. If new panels is all that is needed and you can work with me on this, I will drop the disputes with all three companies. LEt me know your thoughts.
pat

 

[Utta]

Being the middle man is no excuse. If anything it puts more pressure on him because his name is on the line, not the people he "works for". i hope you can get a refund of some sorts. have you thought about looking to see how much the galvanized steel panels would be, and asking him for the difference?

 

[snared99]

To have the panels custom built by freedom breeder would be around $33 each so prob close to $400 shipped

 

[bryanlucas]

He is not the "middle man" as he claims. I have spoke with him on the phone and he was building the racks himself. This guy is a stay at home dude, he keeps boas and his wife works everyday. Al has also told me he suffers from bi polar disorder. No wonder he's not making the racks anymore if they rust after 2 months... he knows that the racks aren't suposed to rust in that short amount of time. I would take him to small claims court, all of your money should be refunded.... EVERY DIME! Don't stop until you seek justice!

 

[brd7666]

We were looking for a steel rack for our breeders and his price was better then the rest.

A lot of times you get what you pay for. A lot of the steel racks are powder coated or painted. I don't know what your racks are like, but if they are bare metal you would get rust in no time. Are these racks bare metal or painted?

 

[snared99]

A lot of times you get what you pay for. A lot of the steel racks are powder coated or painted. I don't know what your racks are like, but if they are bare metal you would get rust in no time. Are these racks bare metal or painted?

Yes this rack is powder coated. The issues with the rust are mainly on the heat panels. There is rust on the frame but mostly on the welds.

 

[brd7666]

Yes this rack is powder coated. The issues with the rust are mainly on the heat panels. There is rust on the frame but mostly on the welds.

If that's the case, then the rack should not be rusting so soon. He either didn't prepare the metal properly before powder coating, or he powder coated over existing rust. That sucks for sure.

 

[shane159]

I live near Al and am at his place at least three days a week buying feeders and what not. I have nothing but positive experiences from Al . I can't speak for his racks nor do I wish to ,b/c I have never used them, but I can say that he does not build them himself.

 

[bryanlucas]

Maybe Mr. Brown can come over and explain himself.

 

[moyers monsters]

pat has left something out and that is that i have whitnessed and will verify everything he has seen. i have seen the backed out sales. when he started to get shocked (which god forbid he had a heart condition of anykind) i was there to inspect the pannals to say they needed to be grounded (which was also verified by another reliable source). this is to say i am in general construction and do electrical work on a regular basis so you all know i am not speaking out of my butt on this matter. i have spoke to the builder of the rack on the phone and he seamed like a really nice guy. but this is problem after problem after problem. i do not understand why you would not give a warenty with any product you make on your own especially when your name is going on it. we are dealing with electricity, this is something that can kill you with no problem, why would you cheat ANYTHING whether it be the ground for each heat pannal or the type of metal the heat pannals are made of??

 

[moyers monsters]

the heat tape it self was another issue. heat tape should be replaced every couple years just because it is a patrolium product and does have the potential to go bad. mr brown told me him self the heat tape used on the rack was several years old, and sitting in a roll in his house. so with that being said, using old heat tape and also cutting directly through the black portions instead of cutting it on an angle was just another electrical problem. if anyone wants to argue that you can cut the heat tape straight across that is fine, there are things in life taht you can do wrong and never have a problem. but there is a reason that when you buy heat tape it is cut on an angle, and there is also a dotted line on the heat tape every foot saying "cut here"

 

[Drew Zaun]

I am not going to comment on your dispute with Al Brown, I don't know him or you nor do I know what is a fair resolution to your problem as far as money is concerned. What I will do is offer you some advice on how to use the product you have, especially as you sold your old rack?

Steel likes to rust, no doubt about it. If it was not treated correctly it would begin rusting almost immediatly in the average herp room, especially if there was electricity involved, which there is.

The good news is that this is almost certainly just surface rust (any chance on those pics?). Rather than spend an additional $400 that you have to try and recover from Al or whoever made the rack (as sending the product to the manufaturer for warranty work is not unheard of) you might want to try fixing it yourself.

A protable grinder with a wire wheel will get the surface rust off easily enough, you can then prime and paint it. It sucks that you should have to do this after spending $1200 on a rack but at least if you do it now you can salvage the piece and get some use out of it. I am pretty sure no judge will refund you the entire amount since it does still work like it is supposed to, just looks like crap and is slowly deteriorating.

This is a cheap but fast and permanent fix and you can then at least have piece of mind that your animals are fine while you figure out the finer points of the deal at your leisure.

Good luck.

 

[d0cking]

To have the panels custom built by freedom breeder would be around $33 each so prob close to $400 shipped

Would those panels be wired with tape? Galv. would be the metal to use (other than stainless or alum). This is how I would look at racks. I would wanna look at some of the units that he (or who ever) built. I would also ask what are his guarantees are. Not everything has a warranty (or has a tail light warranty). Not everyone takes pride in their work. I don't like getting too picky but, when it comes to me spending alot of $$ I will.. I get everything in writing. If it is not in writing or on tape, It did not happen. Unless you have proof of terms, court would just be another cost. Just my opinion.

Thanks,
Michael

 

[snared99]

Would those panels be wired with tape? Galv. would be the metal to use (other than stainless or alum). This is how I would look at racks. I would wanna look at some of the units that he (or who ever) built. I would also ask what are his guarantees are. Not everything has a warranty (or has a tail light warranty). Not everyone takes pride in their work. I don't like getting too picky but, when it comes to me spending alot of $$ I will.. I get everything in writing. If it is not in writing or on tape, It did not happen. Unless you have proof of terms, court would just be another cost. Just my opinion.

Thanks,
Michael

Yes those new panels would be wired and galvanized metal not whatever these are made of. What it comes down to is:
A couple guys thought they could put out a product as good as another rack builder for alot cheaper. But they built a rack that was identical at first, but a huge loss of quality. And even worse is Mr. Brown is claiming he had no part in the build, but he built the heat panels......Which is where all of our issues have been. I have made Mr. Brown aware of the thread byt he way, but i do not think he will respond.

 

[Lucille]

The next day everytime we touched the rack we were shocked.

If someone sold me a product that injured me with electricity I would find a personal injury attorney and sue the snot out of that business.
Most states have good consumer laws, in Texas for instance one can get up to triple damages and attorney's fees; the deal with most consumer suits is the legal cost of bringing suit, but Texas and some other states allow those fees as part of the recovery.
Consult an attorney there.


I wouldn't be begging for him to replace a little rust, I'd take his whole business.

 

[Bobby Douglass]

The seller definately owes the buyer a refund if proof is provided of the rust. If the seller was a middleman in the transaction he should then seek compensation from the builder, but that shouldn't be the buyer's problem whatsoever. Warranty or not, rust after 2 months is unacceptable.

 

[Drew Zaun]

If someone sold me a product that injured me with electricity I would find a personal injury attorney and sue the snot out of that business.
Most states have good consumer laws, in Texas for instance one can get up to triple damages and attorney's fees; the deal with most consumer suits is the legal cost of bringing suit, but Texas and some other states allow those fees as part of the recovery.
Consult an attorney there.


I wouldn't be begging for him to replace a little rust, I'd take his whole business.

They weren't injured, nobody got hurt so there is no need for an attorney to be involved. Since the plates weren't grounded properly there was a buildup charge of static electricity, the same as if you touch metal in a very dry environment. You get a little shock, not electrocuted. Kind of silly for someone to lose their livlihood over nothing.

 

[Yaz23]

READ.

Good post Lucille. Court costs in most states is part of the recovery total. If you win the case he will have to reimburse you for the costs of the court. Considering you did get electrocuted based on the improper build of the rack you can easily sue if you wanted to. Whether the rack is under warranty or not (in this case there is no warranty from what I've read), you did get electrocuted which has NOTHING to do with a stupid warranty on the actual rack. Like Nevin mentioned a few posts up, electricity is no laughing matter. If your product contains anything that has to do with electricity you better have your product working right otherwise MAJOR lawsuits can arise if someone/something happens.

To the OP: If you have any children, imagine if your child got electrocuted or if the whole damn rack caught fire and caused a house fire (very plausible in this scenario).

Whether the rack has a warranty or not, his stand will be that he got electrocuted and the rack is a fire/electrical hazard. This is NOT a matter of rust and it having a bad appearence. This is a matter about safety. He will be refunded the amount of the rack, court costs, and possibly more if he pushes the electrocution.

 

[shane159]

They weren't injured, nobody got hurt so there is no need for an attorney to be involved. Since the plates weren't grounded properly there was a buildup charge of static electricity, the same as if you touch metal in a very dry environment. You get a little shock, not electrocuted. Kind of silly for someone to lose their livlihood over nothing.