Info Ashley Caspillo-SakaraGT4/Sakara *Possible Buyer Beware!*

[SakaraGT4]

Rick... It was 2 separate times... I had bought aspen 2 separate times and both times it came with mites... about a year apart... NONE in between... The mites that were here in Spet. were on Kyle's snakes... We checked my snakes in the separate room and there were none, but we STILL treated them anyway... When we have treated it's been once, then again a week later... then a month later... That's how I was told to use the Nix treatment when I first treated...

Again... They did not re-infest after treatment... I was apparently dumb in attempting to try aspen again about a year after we got mites from aspen before... I will never use aspen again... I understand that there can be mites no matter what bedding you use, but the only times we had mites were after buying aspen from shows...

 

[rc625]

Merry Christmas and thank you for your service!

 

[Elizabethlea27]

If you want to be sarcastic on the BOI and make yourself look bad, go ahead. I was trying to be civil.

 

[crotalusadamanteus]

Rick... It was 2 separate times... I had bought aspen 2 separate times and both times it came with mites... about a year apart... NONE in between... The mites that were here in Spet. were on Kyle's snakes... We checked my snakes in the separate room and there were none, but we STILL treated them anyway... When we have treated it's been once, then again a week later... then a month later... That's how I was told to use the Nix treatment when I first treated...

Again... They did not re-infest after treatment... I was apparently dumb in attempting to try aspen again about a year after we got mites from aspen before... I will never use aspen again... I understand that there can be mites no matter what bedding you use, but the only times we had mites were after buying aspen from shows...

Ummm, Aspen does sometimes come with mites, I agree. But not snake mites. They are wood mites, and just as easy to get rid of. Treat the bedding when you get it, not after you put it in the cages. I've had wood mites from bedding many times. but never once encountered a snake mite. Sure it was the bedding? Snake mites just don't live long, or infest, unless they have blood to feed upon.


Ryan, sorry you got dragged into this. I'm sure your mind needs to be on other things, like staying alive, instead of the stress this crap is bringing. Regardless of this, I hope you're having a safe and Merry Christmas, as best as you can anyway.

 

[crotalusadamanteus]

Should read, "but never once encountered a snake mite in my bedding"

 

[Elizabethlea27]

Again... They did not re-infest after treatment....

You were not so sure of that in your PM to me when you apologized for the mites and acknowledged mites could be lingering at your house. Refer to the screenshot I posted of your pm to me.

And btw if you think Kyle's snakes have them now, then there is no way you can say your snakes don't, for sure, until Kyle's snakes are mite-free too, right?. You live in a carpeted house like I do, I know how easy it is for snake mites to travel on carpet.

And btw the mites I got from you were snake mites, not wood mites. I looked it up and got help on RTB.net.. and I have seen enough of them now to definitely confirm it.

 

[sally-dog]

can you post the vets report?

as a side note, if you went to all the trouble to keep it separate from your other snakes during quarantine, why would you then have it with other snakes when you moved?

The veterinarian office(s?) that conducted the necropsies and sent out whatever pathologies should have hard copies of the results on the animals' file. All you have to do is call them and request copies of the needed info. This would clear up a lot and it is as simple as stopping by the office.

I'm having a hard time understanding why this was not done in the first place, but no one has asked why the vet can't make some copies of this much needed info. It would clear up a lot. If this were happening to me, I would call the vet immediately to get copies of my animals' necropsy reports. If she had done that right from the get go, perhaps we wouldn't be on page sixty-something of this thread.

Most places keep records of clients (even if they have not returned since the initial visit) for a year or more.

 

[sally-dog]

Also, if you read Dave and Tracy Barker's report on the life cycle of snake mites, it states:

the complete life cycle of the snake mite can be completed in 13 to 19 days. At cooler temperatures, some individuals may live up to 40 days.

This explains why the mites did not show up for 3-4 weeks until arrival. The snakes may have had eggs on them or the parasite load was not large enough to be seen, initially. One gravid mite is all it takes to infest a collection. If the snakes are not treated constantly and mites are present, they will show up. 20-30 days is a perfectly acceptable time period for mites to show up.

I myself do not treat newly acquired snakes for mites with chemicals immediately upon arrival. They are soaked to rehydrate them, and soaking them will reveal any adult mites on the animal as they drown in the water. They are put on newspaper or paper toweling so I can watch for any adult mites should they have any. I won't expose them to chemicals if they aren't needed,especially if they are stressed from shipping. However, all of the aspen used for my established collection is treated with PAM or something similar. I keep new snakes on the paper until they have a 2-3 good bowel movements.

I want to point out that I have had 5 different snakes shipped to me by 5 different people at various times this past year. None of them showed up with mites, and my latest acquisition was in November, and it is still separated- with no sign of mites or other illness.

Here is the link to the report by VPI:
http://www.vpi.com/publications/the_life_history_of_snake_mites

 

[sally-dog]

Oh, and Merry Christmas.
Thank you for serving our country, Ryan. I'm sorry you have to deal with this.

 

[ed hummel]

Ed... I don't have the path reports... they were on my Hard Drive, BUT they are posted in the Deans Reptiles thread...

so after that snake came back as dying from IBD and then being in close contact to a couple of your other snakes in your collection during the move did you still continue to buy/sell snakes putting others (people and snakes) at risk?

as far as the path reports go i admit i know nothing of the dean thread so could you possibly either post the link to said thread or even better yet copy and paste the report from there into this thread? as another poster mentioned im sure you could also get a new copy for your new hard drive from the vet? they probably back up they're hard drives in case of it going bad so as not to loss such things.

 

[RachelSS]

I never spotted the mites right away because I use newspaper and never really checked them super meticulously because I didn't think I had to. I bought from a friend whom I thought I could trust. So yeah, it did take me a little while to find them.

Especially with me having strict quarantine procedures, and throwing gloves out immediately when I handle them, it's something that went overlooked. It wasn't until I squeezed belly scales that I saw ANYTHING, they never soaked in their water bowls.

It wasn't until after I aggressively treated for mites that I knew for sure they were seriously infested. I change their water out every other day because of the amount of dead mites in the bowl. It looks like someone dumped a pepper shaker in their water.

 

[RachelSS]

My point also is that regardless of the mites, you broke quarantine and housed a very sick snake in your main snake room where the Bolivian female later had babies. These snakes are potentially IBD infected and as soon as this thread was made Elizabeth and I should have been contacted, when the paypal money would have been still in your account.

You're not trying to blame me but you're certainly questioning me, it's not a concern you ever mentioned over text or through email. Especially when you told me they sat in a room where a mite infestation was still being treated.

 

[RachelSS]

I've also sent Ashley a message telling her to prepare a shipping label as the weather will be acceptable in Memphis where the Fedex hub is for me to ship the animals back to her. I also told her I will grab a heatpack before shipment and have them ready to ship out.

She has posted on here but has not responded to my email, so i'm going to forward the email to Ryan and see if he can resolve the situation since things seemed to get moving and a resolution found while talking to him.

 

[sally-dog]

Ashley shouldn't even think about selling any more animals. Ever again. She needs to repair what she has done, test her collection, and be done with it.

Too many contradictions were made, are still being made, and even the big post she made isn't going to rectify that in the slightest. It hasn't, really. All it did was repeat the same things she's already told us (with the exception of Angel supposedly lying, the treatment of the dog, and the issue with the refunds). With the exception of the BCL with the initial diagnosis of IBD, and what was posted on the Burmese Python, we have no way of knowing if a necropsy was performed on the remaining deceased animals and no way of knowing if they were specifically tested for IBD. Until that surfaces, we can only speculate.

Even if the Jampea retic was sick when it arrived in her care, she still posted it for SALE for $300. I could understand it better if she had explained his condition and attempted to give him away to someone more fit to handle him, but she put a price tag on him knowing he was sick because he was an inconvenience to her at the time. That Jampea retic is only a small prelude to what it is like owning a giant snake, and she has 3 or 4 more. What are you going to do if one of the others come down with respiratory infections and it must be restrained? Even "tame" pythons resist restraint forcefully. I see her giving advice on these giant animals that she has barely had to time to fully understand.

You shouldn't have to explain the life cycle of a mite to someone who should know better. Ashley could have found that information back when she posted about her very first case of mites. The article I posted is very easy to find.

The part that frustrates me the most out of this entire ordeal is that several people have warned her from the time she started rapidly acquiring animals that she was going too fast. Almost overnight she becomes a "breeder", and the rest is history. If she had heeded the advice, then she wouldn't be criticized so badly. Instead, the people who voiced their concerns in the beginning were written off by her as "jealous" or mean or "having personal issues". Hardly!

Elizabeth, if you are going to keep the Bolivians for fear of them going back to these conditions, you shouldn't be refunded the price you paid for them. Instead, Ashley needs to reinstate you for the costs of treating and testing your animals.

This is not always a fun and games hobby. It can be very unforgiving, and anyone who wishes to sell offspring and become a breeder must take the advice of others (especially those who have been in the business long enough) seriously. Buying adult animals and putting them together may make you a "breeder", but it does not make you a good one. Wracking up a post count and being active on a forum does not make you "reputable", especially when the content of most of those posts leaves a lot to be desired, especially when there isn't a whole lot of experience to back it up.

Even if Ashley does make good, and attempts to get her name in this business again, this thread will always be here and anyone reading the first few pages will run in the other direction. I don't blame them.

 

[amercnwmn]

so after that snake came back as dying from IBD and then being in close contact to a couple of your other snakes in your collection during the move did you still continue to buy/sell snakes putting others (people and snakes) at risk?

as far as the path reports go i admit i know nothing of the dean thread so could you possibly either post the link to said thread or even better yet copy and paste the report from there into this thread? as another poster mentioned im sure you could also get a new copy for your new hard drive from the vet? they probably back up they're hard drives in case of it going bad so as not to loss such things.

Ed, in short YES she did sell snakes under the suspicion they had been exposed to IBD.

Necropsy dated 11-19-09

http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showpost.php?p=826097&postcount=172

Short run down:
Ashley purchased a snake around mid-September 09, the snake showed CNS signs and died around mid-November.

http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=214444

There are pics posted showing the snake that died IN with the general collection.
EXIF data on the photos brought up in another forum show a 5 day time lapse with the snake in the room with the main collection.

Ashley demanded a refund from the seller, citing DEFINITE IBD based on that necropsy.
Her claim stayed active until January 2010.

During that time, she had SEVERAL ads up selling snakes, and several sales. INCLUDING some posted 2 days AFTER the necropsy indicating IBD

When people questioned her, and she claimed she was "locking down the collection".

Here are the ads 2 days after getting the "IBD" report posted on a CAR forum
Mind you, this is AFTER she claimed "NOTHING IN, NOTHING OUT"
http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1172412&postcount=515

Follow up:
http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1172422&postcount=521

She CLAIMED to have 3 other snakes die AFTER the BCL that was reported to have IBD.

1)A Retic she claims was starved
2)A Burmese python she claims was starved, showed severe RI signs suddenly, and was left at the vet. An exam was performed, but based on what was posted, there is an addendum page missing, and it MIGHT not have been tested for IBD, even though it IS mentioned it was exposed. We don't know since the page is gone. Necropsy that IS included shows liver problems.
3)A gravid Boa: Ruby: examined and "pyometra" was listed as the cause, however no necropsy was posted, just images of the exam. There are pictures of this snake "gaping" widely before her death. Allegedly because of aggression, but this was a usually docile snake.

Upon FURTHER snooping, ANOTHER Boa was found to have died, but we don't know when or how:
4) Phoenix, male Boa.

That's 4 deaths, none that have definitive pathologies SINCE the IBD death a YEAR ago. Now, it could be all keeper error, flukes, etc...BUT since IBD is such a biotch of a disease, lays dormant, and can test as negative but still be present, snakes should NOT have left the collection untill ALL doubt was removed.

Ashley has had 2 people's collections housed with hers: Kyle's & Yvonne's as well.

Now the "mites" issue..
She just stated earlier in 08 she had an issue, I pointed out 2 other threads involving mites, in 09 and again another involving "wood mites" on her snakes.
Kyle has found mites on his snakes, on TWO occasions he's visited.
Not sure of those dates, but I'd say it's a chronic problem.

Rachel took precautions in QT her snakes, on the advice of Kyle. The fact he advised her to QT and has SEEN her collection should tell you SOMETHING.

None of this was realized, because both ladies THOUGHT they bought from a FRIEND and a respectable breeder/seller.

Hard lesson learned, I don't think it's right to blame the victims in this case.

 

[ShadowAceD]

Stop apologizing to Ryan and treating him like a victim.

If you guys remember, he said he wanted to deal with all of this, either because Ashley totally lacks the spine (noted), or because he is the one that really handles the financial matters in the house (noted).

He put himself in the middle of it, which he rightly should have. Their website says they are a husband and wife team. This means they are both involved with every aspect of breeding and care for the snakes. So, no sympathy is given on my end, even if he is deployed, because, right now I have a lack of respect for the fact he is even in the service because he is not holding himself to any kind of standard that is asked of him and the other service men and women enlisted today. His passive aggressive attitude, sarcasm and finger pointing is a shameful display.

The military teaches you to take responsibility for yourself and since Ashely is prior-enlisted, this should have been enstilled in her too.

Whoever brought up that the military will ultimately hold them responsible for this situation, they are right, if the proper channels are utilized. I know those proper channels and I have already set those channels up. It is now up to Ryan and Ashley what they are going to do.

Any reputable breeder would not ask for those animals back after acknowledging they know they could have gotten mites from their house. The only reason breeders ask for animals back is to resell them. Period. That is exactly what you guys are planning to do once they are "cleared". Well guess what, Ashely? Apparently, in your massive research frenzy, you missed that a negative result in a boa means jack when it comes to confirming IBD. You cannot confirm it is negative, you can only confirm that they are positive. Your collection is forever tainted and none of these animals should ever leave your house (Kyle's included) and none should ever come in. Not until every one is euthanized for presenting or dies being completely asymptomatic.

That is what a responsible breeder would do. You up on this one, now it's time to pay the piper.

You need to refund that money without getting those animals back. I cannot think of a reputable breeder who would not think the same.

You had IBD in your collection. End of story. That is a black mark that should throw up red flags everywhere. You found mites, even one at a time ... don't you know that for every one you see, there are THOUSANDS that you cannot? There is never just one mite. So if you found one, then you had mites, and your collection had mites and your collection could have spread diseases because of the mites. If the mites came from Kyle's animals, as you claim, why keep them? I'd tell that person, friend or not, his mite infested aimals could not stay there ... but, my bad ... I'm a responsible person who owns things she does.

God, keep forgetting the whole irresponsible, immature thing ... crud.

Get off your high horse, lock down that collection permenantly and suffer the consequences of trying to bull rush a hobby that takes an incredible amount of time, patience and compassion.

 

[ShadowAceD]

And for the last time, TOS are a guide, not something meant to be set in stone and not diverted from.

There are always exceptions to guidelines and rules.

 

[RachelSS]

I have one of Kyle's snakes here and I can assure you that it does not have mites. The mites did not come from Kyle.

 

[reticguy76]

id have to say, that pretty much clears it all up and how all this should be handled. full agreement with diem, full refund, no animals back, period.

i know if i sold an animal or animals that were ill or diseased in anyway, a full refund (plus shipping cost) would be issued as well as at least half the cost to treat/cure said disease/illness to the snake.

that is just proper business and hobby ethics

 

[RachelSS]

I cannot risk keeping these snakes in my house. I have been keeping for about 5 solid years now and this is my first year at attempting to breed. I cannot risk the mites infesting my collection and ruining everything I have. It would kill me. These snakes must go back. They must be tested and observed.