Bad Guy Boamaster (Mark Venhorst)

[deborahbroadus]

I see from this image that you used a credit card through paypal! GREAT move! File a claim with your credit card company that the snakes were not delivered as advertised. It would put some pressure on him to do the right thing. And if he doesn't you still have a chance at getting your money back. Make sure you have all the evidence vet bills etc and any communication between the two of you. Organize this all into a step by step (with numbers etc) guide through your transaction to make sure the credit card company can follow your transaction logically. I say go strait to this because a paypal dispute will not side with you because the snakes were delivered and that's all they care about usually.

^^^^ This move may also make him more amendable to working with you.

 

[scaledverts]

You have to take what you can get. You can't just demand a refund. Just ask him to work with you. He is probably only going to be willing to give you replacements. I know you had trouble with the last snakes, but if you give him the benefit of the doubt you may end up ok. Just stay calm, try to understand his side of it, and go from there.

WHY would you give him the "benefit of the doubt" here? He has not earned that at all in this transaction. He came here and posted his "one and only post" to basically say . He also made "his side of it" pretty clear.

Here's the bottom line: She/they were sold sick snakes that the seller knew were sick. Those snakes died, she/they are due a FULL refund not some hide behind TOS B.S.

To say that "you have to take what you can get" is kind of ridiculous in my opinion.

 

[mxracer4life]

I see from this image that you used a credit card through paypal! GREAT move! File a claim with your credit card company that the snakes were not delivered as advertised. It would put some pressure on him to do the right thing. And if he doesn't you still have a chance at getting your money back. Make sure you have all the evidence vet bills etc and any communication between the two of you. Organize this all into a step by step (with numbers etc) guide through your transaction to make sure the credit card company can follow your transaction logically. I say go strait to this because a paypal dispute will not side with you because the snakes were delivered and that's all they care about usually.

Why didn't anybody else think of this?

I still would talk to Mark 1 more time though.

 

[apreske]

In one of the last emails I sent him I was frustrated (as you all can probably tell). I was expecting healthy snakes and what I got was completely different. I'm a person that doesn't like confrontation of any kind and when I wrote that email I was very stressed out about the whole thing. He may not have known that the snakes were sick and I was assuming that he did know. No one really knows except for Mark if that is true or not. Since all 3 snakes died within a relatively short amount of time I have a hard time believing that he didn't know something about it. I'll try contacting him within the next few days and we'll see what happens.

 

[deborahbroadus]

In one of the last emails I sent him I was frustrated (as you all can probably tell). I was expecting healthy snakes and what I got was completely different. I'm a person that doesn't like confrontation of any kind and when I wrote that email I was very stressed out about the whole thing. He may not have known that the snakes were sick and I was assuming that he did know. No one really knows except for Mark if that is true or not. Since all 3 snakes died within a relatively short amount of time I have a hard time believing that he didn't know something about it. I'll try contacting him within the next few days and we'll see what happens.

I would go ahead and go the claim route with my credit card (but then I don't like having games played with my money)

Check your CC TOS first, before wasting more time, they may have an expiration date for putting in claims?

 

[mxracer4life]

WHY would you give him the "benefit of the doubt" here? He has not earned that at all in this transaction. He came here and posted his "one and only post" to basically say . He also made "his side of it" pretty clear.

Because I think if she contacted him again she would have a much better shot at figuring something out.

To say that "you have to take what you can get" is kind of ridiculous in my opinion.

Ridiculous? So accepting a replacement rather than a full refund is ridiculous? I think at this point a replacement that the two would agree on is much better than nothing at all.

 

[hhmoore]

If she doesn't want any more snakes from Mark, a replacement may not be a desirable option...regardless of whether it is the only thing being offered. Only Allison can say whether it is something she would consider.

 

[apreske]

I would rather get something than nothing I guess. I just don't want him to send sick snakes again. That's my only concern.

 

[scaledverts]

Because I think if she contacted him again she would have a much better shot at figuring something out.

I think Mark has had PLENTY of opportunity to make this right. He has made very little effort into reaching a mutually agreeable solution. If it were me, he would have exhausted all of his benefit of the doubt to make this right.

Ridiculous? So accepting a replacement rather than a full refund is ridiculous? I think at this point a replacement that the two would agree on is much better than nothing at all.

Accepting a replacement that is not of similar value and paying for shipping of that replacement is indeed ridiculous. Also, there has been no replacement the both think is fair and Mark is no longer responding to the issue. How many chances does one person get to make it right before it becomes clear they have no intention of doing so?

 

[mxracer4life]

I would rather get something than nothing I guess. I just don't want him to send sick snakes again. That's my only concern.

I am sure if you both came to an agreement on a replacement that he would make sure of that. Hope everything works out.

 

[akonitony]

I'd file a small claims against him for a refund of the snakes and vet bills. Seems to me you have enough proof. You might need to make a road trip, but at least your gas would be paid for if you win. You might be able to file it electronically. A lot of courtrooms now are on big-screens.

 

[apreske]

I tried contacting him again. We'll see what happens.

 

[ShadowAceD]

I am not trying to defend Allison, (I don't feel a defense is necessary) because those snakes were at deaths door and should never have been shipped.

She spent $700 on snakes that died quickly. Not sure why the OP is getting attacked at all. In my book $700 is not that great a deal for those specific snakes. You add the vet bills and she got royally screwed.

Where the heck do you get "greedy"? I mean a few hundred might be greedy but $700 was not a good deal anyways. IMO

Because people keep going back to whether or not it was a good deal ...

First off, a "good deal" is subjective to what the buyer decides is a good deal at the time. It was their choice to enter into the deal, no one forced them to do it. That aside ...

Going simply off the information provided:

Total Purchase Price was 730.00 USD according to PayPal. They have said they paid over 740.00, but with all the information offered, I do not see that. I see them agreeing to 450.00 + 160.00 shipping, initially. That is 610.00 USD. With the Jungle thrown in for 120.00 USD, it comes to 730.00, which is what is shown in PayPal.

Total Purchase Price minus Shipping was 570.00.

Breedable Jungle Female for 120.00 USD. Let me tell you, Jungle neonates sell for at least 150.00, and that is definitely for lower grade/quality ones. Ones with outstanding patterns and colors are far more. That animal was so discounted, it should have been slapping someone in the face with red flags. Ignoring the fact Mark's Jungle stock is not a great example of the morph, he still sells the neonates in the 150.00 - 400.00 USD range.

Breedable Hypo Female for 250.00 USD. The original purchase price of this animal was 300.00. The price of Hypos, particularly when of breeding age and female, will depend on the quality and grade of the animal, which is another reasons why pictures were asked for. But, either way, they accepted a 50.00 USD discount on the animal.

Breedable Het. Albino Female 200.00 USD. This is another price that would have thrown a red flag. A breedable het. albino of good stock and genetics is worth more than 200.00 USD. Consider that albinos still sell for the 200.00 - 400.00 USD range (sometimes higher, again, all depends on quality and genetics) a breedable female for 200.00 USD is a severe undercut.

Even if we just assume, roughly, based off the troubles of the market, we'll say a breedable Jungle Female would probably sell for 350.00 USD, a breedable Hypo Female for 250.00 and a breedable Het. Albino for 300.00 for a total of 900.00 USD before shipping. Obviously, there is room for error with these estimates, as I said, due to market issues, but I can tell you I watch boa markets fairly closely and I have watched Mark's ads for some time and I will tell you that those would be about his usual prices for these particular types of animals, though I have seen him selling breedable Het. Albino females for more than that and breedable Jungles for more than that as well.

I will again state I do not agree with Mark selling these animals at all, but I still think if someone agrees to buy sick animals, they are nulling any guarantee on said animals. Sick animals should never ever ever be sold, but they were and the OP agreed. Even if it comes down to "Well .. he lessened the issues" he still mentioned they had health concerns. That should have been enough to turn someone away.

I know the OP acknowledges they messed up on that one, and good for them. Mark still needs to acknowledge his wrong in the mess, but I do not feel refunding is really something he has to do at this point.

Many disagree with me, and that is fine, but from everything that has been shown, both parties are in the wrong, the OP needs to take this as a loss and learn from it and Mark needs to just stick to making cages and quit breeding lower quality morphs and flipping animals he recieves in trade for his cages.

 

[apreske]

In vet bills we paid over $740.

 

[ShadowAceD]

I was referring to this in your first post.

I bought all of these snakes for a little over $740

 

[apreske]

Ok, you're right.

 

[apreske]

When I said that I meant with shipping included. I was $10 off.

 

[ShadowAceD]

Makes sense, was just trying to bring all the pricing information together regarding the sale of the animals into one post.

 

[apreske]

That's cool, I understand.

 

[deborahbroadus]

Because people keep going back to whether or not it was a good deal ...

First off, a "good deal" is subjective to what the buyer decides is a good deal at the time. It was their choice to enter into the deal, no one forced them to do it. That aside ...

Going simply off the information provided:

Total Purchase Price was 730.00 USD according to PayPal. They have said they paid over 740.00, but with all the information offered, I do not see that. I see them agreeing to 450.00 + 160.00 shipping, initially. That is 610.00 USD. With the Jungle thrown in for 120.00 USD, it comes to 730.00, which is what is shown in PayPal.

Total Purchase Price minus Shipping was 570.00.

Breedable Jungle Female for 120.00 USD. Let me tell you, Jungle neonates sell for at least 150.00, and that is definitely for lower grade/quality ones. Ones with outstanding patterns and colors are far more. That animal was so discounted, it should have been slapping someone in the face with red flags. Ignoring the fact Mark's Jungle stock is not a great example of the morph, he still sells the neonates in the 150.00 - 400.00 USD range.

Breedable Hypo Female for 250.00 USD. The original purchase price of this animal was 300.00. The price of Hypos, particularly when of breeding age and female, will depend on the quality and grade of the animal, which is another reasons why pictures were asked for. But, either way, they accepted a 50.00 USD discount on the animal.

Breedable Het. Albino Female 200.00 USD. This is another price that would have thrown a red flag. A breedable het. albino of good stock and genetics is worth more than 200.00 USD. Consider that albinos still sell for the 200.00 - 400.00 USD range (sometimes higher, again, all depends on quality and genetics) a breedable female for 200.00 USD is a severe undercut.

Even if we just assume, roughly, based off the troubles of the market, we'll say a breedable Jungle Female would probably sell for 350.00 USD, a breedable Hypo Female for 250.00 and a breedable Het. Albino for 300.00 for a total of 900.00 USD before shipping. Obviously, there is room for error with these estimates, as I said, due to market issues, but I can tell you I watch boa markets fairly closely and I have watched Mark's ads for some time and I will tell you that those would be about his usual prices for these particular types of animals, though I have seen him selling breedable Het. Albino females for more than that and breedable Jungles for more than that as well.

I will again state I do not agree with Mark selling these animals at all, but I still think if someone agrees to buy sick animals, they are nulling any guarantee on said animals. Sick animals should never ever ever be sold, but they were and the OP agreed. Even if it comes down to "Well .. he lessened the issues" he still mentioned they had health concerns. That should have been enough to turn someone away.

I know the OP acknowledges they messed up on that one, and good for them. Mark still needs to acknowledge his wrong in the mess, but I do not feel refunding is really something he has to do at this point.

Many disagree with me, and that is fine, but from everything that has been shown, both parties are in the wrong, the OP needs to take this as a loss and learn from it and Mark needs to just stick to making cages and quit breeding lower quality morphs and flipping animals he recieves in trade for his cages.

BUT she does have an "out" (it was a credit card payment) should she choose to take it and it becomes MARK's lesson on selling sick snakes.