Bad Guy Chris Kopeckey - Bad Apple Reptiles 100% doublel HET did not prove out and then...

[Revolution1221]

On Fri, Nov 5, 2010 at 11:32 PM, anthony prosper <[email protected]> wrote:

hey whats up man, just wondering if you ever got around to finding the pics of this little guys parents and gettin his exact genetics, you were talkin about it before the hamburg show an i figured ya got a little busy. hit me up lemmie know how my babys doin an if ya shot it yet.

----- Forwarded Message ----
From: Chris Kopecky <[email protected]>
To: anthony prosper <[email protected]>
Sent: Sat, November 6, 2010 9:34:28 AM
Subject: Re: heyy

Dude I spaced it out for sure-my bad!
red ita lb/imoprted germen giant/satyrday red/cawley red hypo red flaming tiger X LL
so after that 100%het hypo 100% trans

if your referring to me...because he told me on the phone several times when we talked it was 100% double....the email where he says 50% was in November. we did the transaction in September. so that 50% trans comment is completely irrelevant in my opinion.

This would be the e-mail you are reffering to then in November. The one you quoted in your first post. Im just trying to figure out why in your version of the e-mail it says 100% when he then quoted the same e-mail sayinf 50% but then now you say 50%? Just wondering why you would edit the e-mail. It may be irrelevant since it wasn't the trait you were trying to breed. And still none proved out but it does not look good if you are editing e-mails. Im not saying you are lying about it not being het because he has obviously admited that he made a mistake but i just dont get the editing part of the e-mail.

 

[Revolution1221]

there's 2 different emails, not the same email but one is edited....he corrected himself in the second one and changed it to 50%...and the only reason chris has that email was because i was nice enough to email both of them emails back to him, because he didn't have any emails where he told me het. so rather then hide anything i sent him both of his emails, because again im not trying to cheat anyone here. i easily could have only sent the one where he says 100% hypo 100% trans...which would have worked in my favor, but im not that kind of guy.

ok if there is an e-mail where he said 100% it would still help if you would screan cap it or better yet the second one also where he changed it and said 50%. Because that will only look worse on him. Not trying to grill you but it is important to find out if someone is editing e-mails because that is a big NO NO. The problem is both of those e-mails i quoted have the same exact time date and say the exact same thing except for the gun part is taken off in yours or was added to his.

 

[yourbeat]

its not edited lol its 2 separate emails ...again im the one who sent both emails to him bc he had no records of our emails...so i sent him both of his emails back, one which he said 100% twice and his other email where he said 50%...does that help clarify anything?

im assuming when he sent the 100% x 100% email maybe something clicked about what his parents were? so he changed it to 50%? not sure....either way by then the deal was 2 months old. i kinda had to keep bugging him for weeks just to get them 2 short emails that are posted in here.

 

[BMK.]

Anthony ...look in the emails again I never said the juvi was dbl het I called it juvi leather male..the only dbl het I ever talked about was 'Tootie' in first pic who is dbl het leather FEMALE..which was paired with juvi leather male....

then you wanted hypo trans FEMALE so I swapped, I never was arguing it was a FREEBIE and it don't matter what I thought it was..... I said it was juvie leather male...

I said $200 for female red leather which is listed on site at $550..thought it was fair deal..few days later you said you wanted the female via text.

AGAIN, that's when I suggested we talk, to make sure were on the same page.


Thanks
CK

 

[yourbeat]

soo the email where you told me it was 100% het hypo and 100% het trans,and the other email where you said 100% het hypo and 50% het trans....you mean you were telling me about a different dragon? why would you tell me about a different dragon in November when the deal was September? maybe im confused because that last post didnt really make sense to me? i asked the genetics of the male that i had in November which is what the posted emails are about...

 

[Revolution1221]

Anthony ...look in the emails again I never said the juvi was dbl het I called it juvi leather male..the only dbl het I ever talked about was 'Tootie' in first pic who is dbl het leather FEMALE..which was paired with juvi leather male....

you may not have said the exact words double het but you claimed it was het for hypo and het for trans that is what double het means?

 

[yourbeat]

another small thing popped in my head, when i came to you about none of my babys being an hypos or trans and you offered me 2 males, which you haven't denied one single time yet...you were offering me 2 males for free to fix this issue, but when you said i could have the female for my trouble you really meant, ill give you the female for 200$ for your trouble? you told me the female was to even up the Hets not proving out...200$ was talked about days before i even talked to you about your male not proving chris. then because you knew i liked her you offered her to me for free because of your male not proving out. obviously were running in circles here. like i said bottom line, your male didn't prove out, and your only response to fixing it was that ugly male i didn't want it soo i guess its big loss for me at this point...i brought it to the BOI to let people know in the future you sold an animal which did not prove out what you said it was, that's all man...i wasn't trying to make you out to be anything that your not, just telling my story and letting the people of fauna know about you selling hets. i still wish you luck in everything you do from now and in the future bro, but i didnt want to not let people know about this situation because that's what ruins the reptile business. to many people just dont want to deal with this so they chose not to come to the boi. thats what keeps the scamming dirty breeders and flippers in business. and im not saying thats what you are either.

 

[scaledverts]

soo the email where you told me it was 100% het hypo and 100% het trans,and the other email where you said 100% het hypo and 50% het trans....you mean you were telling me about a different dragon? why would you tell me about a different dragon in November when the deal was September? maybe im confused because that last post didnt really make sense to me? i asked the genetics of the male that i had in November which is what the posted emails are about...

So I'm a bit confused now. When you negotiated the initial trade deal, did he ever tell you the male leather was 100% double het? You initially made it sound as he told you it was a 100% double het from the start and that the trade deal went through only because this dragon with these genetics was added to the deal. However, from what I have read thus far, it looks like he never said double het during the trade itself only after you came back to him and asked about the genetics again right?

 

[jcfourme]

Agreed yourbeat and I love your analogy about the Glock, it's priceless and I couln't agree with you more.

 

[yourbeat]

it was absolutely 100% talked about before we ever met up and did the transaction that the leather was in fact a double het....i would not have gone through with this if it wasn't...your initial thought was correct. sorry if i made this even more confusing as if it wasn't confusing enough already lol

 

[Revolution1221]

So I'm a bit confused now. When you negotiated the initial trade deal, did he ever tell you the male leather was 100% double het? You initially made it sound as he told you it was a 100% double het from the start and that the trade deal went through only because this dragon with these genetics was added to the deal. However, from what I have read thus far, it looks like he never said double het during the trade itself only after you came back to him and asked about the genetics again right?

i think the problem is the e-mails didn't make it this far. they never finalized the sale so either they talked about it on the phone or when he went to get them. I think he told him what it was but never gave him the exact genetics until after the sale though. I could be wrong but thats the way I read it.

 

[yourbeat]

Agreed yourbeat and I love your analogy about the Glock, it's priceless and I couln't agree with you more.

yeah, but at the same time i wasn't trying to be a wiseguy or be funny about it, just trying to get the point across.

So I'm a bit confused now. When you negotiated the initial trade deal, did he ever tell you the male leather was 100% double het? You initially made it sound as he told you it was a 100% double het from the start and that the trade deal went through only because this dragon with these genetics was added to the deal. However, from what I have read thus far, it looks like he never said double het during the trade itself only after you came back to him and asked about the genetics again right?

the issue im learning about with Chris, is that he always asks to do everything over the phone, and im wondering if this situation is why...no paper trail and makes proving your point to be verrrry hard esp. almost a year later....but yes it was talked about prior to meeting him at the gun store to transfer the firearm into his name. it was understood that it was a Double Het red leatherback.....needless to say from now on i certainly will do EVERYTHING via text or email.

 

[yourbeat]

i think the problem is the e-mails didn't make it this far. they never finalized the sale so either they talked about it on the phone or when he went to get them. I think he told him what it was but never gave him the exact genetics until after the sale though. I could be wrong but thats the way I read it.

correct basically this whole deal was done on the phone because he said it was much easier for him due to him having the kids to watch, so i didn't want to be a burden on a father watching his kids, nor take his attention away from watching his kids. so i called him and spoke about everything on the phone. the same thing happened the other day when i brought up the hets not proving out. i send emails and texts about it, then i receive a phone call. he must really hate computers i guess.

 

[Focal]

BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH! I guess I gotta be the one that has to be the head.

BOTH of you are looking for credibility at this point and one of you are flat out lying about the email. There may have been two emails, but these two below are sent at the same SECOND! One of you doctored the email which is a very big here. Look at the times in bold below!! There's no way he had time to edit, correct and send a second email within the same second of the first email.

I understand you were screwed on this deal OP, but if you edited that email, it's best to come clean now. This is a whole different beast then getting screwed on a deal.

----- Forwarded Message ----
From: Chris Kopecky <[email protected]>
To: anthony prosper <[email protected]>
Sent: Sat, November 6, 2010 9:34:28 AM
Subject: Re: heyy

Dude I spaced it out for sure-my bad!
red ita lb/imoprted germen giant/satyrday red/cawley red hypo red flaming tiger X LL
so after that 100%het hypo 100% trans

Quote:
----- Forwarded Message ----
From: Chris Kopecky <[email protected]>
To: anthony prosper <[email protected]>
Sent: Sat, November 6, 2010 9:34:28 AM
Subject: Re: heyy


Dude I spaced it out for sure-my bad!
red ita lb/imoprted germen giant/satyrday red/cawley red hypo red flaming tiger X LL
so after that 100%het hypo 50% trans
ha I still havent shot it yet, but one of these days, one of these days...ha ha

 

[Focal]

soo the email where you told me it was 100% het hypo and 100% het trans,and the other email where you said 100% het hypo and 50% het trans....you mean you were telling me about a different dragon? why would you tell me about a different dragon in November when the deal was September? maybe im confused because that last post didnt really make sense to me? i asked the genetics of the male that i had in November which is what the posted emails are about...

Post the emails. Both of you have been avoiding the emails below. Even posted all of them BUT those emails.

 

[yourbeat]

I don't know how I'm looking for credibility....its already been stated he traded me a double het male which was part of a 2 dragon deal. It was het for nothing but normal leather. That's the whole point of this boi...posting about him selling fake het animals. There's nothing left to do here because chris only wants to swap my fake dbll het male for another ugly supposed dbl het which i have 0 interest In. There's nothing left to really debate or argue over I'm at abig time loss, ill take my loss and go buy a male from a reputable breeder who knows his lines and his genetic pairings so that I don't get another dake het animal.

As far as changing emails if I was trying to be sneaky I would have only sent him one email not two, this is all on chris now because of how he handled the situation.

Like I said I'm taking my loss learning from it and pushing on to hopefuly getting the results I wanted 8 months ago when we first made The deal. I hope he enjoys the working firearm he receive in the exact shape it was described in....I didn't tell him it was .40 cal. Then show up with a water gun, I help up my side of the bargin.

 

[yourbeat]

Eventually ill get to my computer and repost the emails or go back and read how to take the screen shot....I been doin all of this from my phone

 

[Focal]

I don't know how I'm looking for credibility....

Trust me, I understand your fustration, but at this point I can't tell who is right, who is wrong, who is misinformed, who has the communication barrier and who is lying. Maybe it doesn't matter to you what I think, but you brought this public. I have seen many people try to pull the wool over our eyes and brand someone a bad guy just so they can get what they want. Maybe not you, but it kinda appears that could be a possibility still.

If a situation like this one pops and isn't solved, usually both the buyer and seller can be blacklisted. The seller because he obviously sold a bad het, but the buyer because he may be changing emails to his favor. Sorry if it sounds like I'm pushing this on you at this point, but when Revolution asked you about it, you said they were two different emails when they CLEARLY are not.

I hope this works out for you, but it needs to be understood that this is not a place to play with evidence to pursade people to that persons favor. Whether you or him...

Eventually ill get to my computer and repost the emails or go back and read how to take the screen shot....I been doin all of this from my phone

Thanks

 

[yourbeat]

I agree with you 100% but to me it is resolved, he flat out wasn't offering me anything but that one male after he retracted his previous offers of 2 het males or the one female...I'm not making him to be a bad guy to get what I want because I don't want anything from chris what so ever. I don't want his bloodlines in my projects what so ever. I was only going to accept that female to sell it and put that money towards a new male which I am now in great need of to move on with anything. Not once did I ever yell,curse, or threaten chris at any point. I hope he can at least vouch for me as being very calm and respectful this whole time. I didn't say give me this or its the BOI lol I gave him days to fix it, he didn't put any effort into it other then take this male or nothing. At that point I still didn't freak I calmly came here to post up my experience. You can ask any of the people I have baught from, I'm a smooth easy going guy whhen it comes to buying animals. I don't have a rep selling them yet because this was my first clutch and this is where I'm at lol I'm just trying to get my specific breeding projects going...its taken me a long time to get the few adults I have now, and now I'm set back more but I do it for fun not to get rich. But I do get upset when I'm breeding for one specific morph and get nothing but normals out of it.

 

[kylerimb]

forgive me if i read it wrong, but i believe he said that he forwarded both emails to chris after chris said that he never claimed they were hets. that could be why the timestamps are identical. at least that's what i got out of it.