• Responding to email notices you receive.
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  • IMPORTANT! PLEASE READ!! About the Google Adsense ads being displayed

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    Yeah, I know. They are a pain in the butt. But they pay the bills to keep my server running. Just a fact of life, I am afraid.

    Want to get rid of them? Simple. Just become a Contributor level member or above and they will be gone. -> Please click HERE."

    Is that too much for me to ask of you to keep this site running? Well, sorry about that. I too wish I could get everything for free. But alas.....

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    Google Adsense ad revenue for December, 2025 was just $30 over the cost of the lease for the server running this site. So, in effect, the money providing the incentive for me to continue running this site is coming SOLELY from the paid memberships and sponsorships here. Which honestly ain't much....

Bad Guy Seller TimTina - Shipping NEONATE CHAMS!

Paige, feel free to PM me or start a thread in the appropraite forum regarding care of crickets. I don't mean that in a condescending way at all - there are products in pet stores sold as gutloads that do a very poor job of keeping crickets alive, sometimes inhibiting their ability to properly molt. It might not be your fault that they are dying so young, but if you'd like advice on caring for them there are many helpful members on the board who will gladly help you out. I don't want to spin off from the main point of this thread though, so feel free to make a post in the appropriate forum.

Petsmart does typically carry a variety of cricket sizes, I understand your frustration in them not carrying the appropriate sized feeders but do understand that the seller's petsmart location may be more up to par than your location on keeping feeders in stock. Not all stores equal despite being the same chain - the seller was merely giving you options. One particular petsmat near me always has bugs, and another in the next city rarely has anything but large sized crickets available from time to time...

Tina, any chance you can provide some details about this clutch to put the accusation that this is a neonate cham to rest?
 
JeffreH said:
Paige, feel free to PM me or start a thread in the appropraite forum regarding care of crickets. I don't mean that in a condescending way at all - there are products in pet stores sold as gutloads that do a very poor job of keeping crickets alive, sometimes inhibiting their ability to properly molt. It might not be your fault that they are dying so young, but if you'd like advice on caring for them there are many helpful members on the board who will gladly help you out. I don't want to spin off from the main point of this thread though, so feel free to make a post in the appropriate forum.

Petsmart does typically carry a variety of cricket sizes, I understand your frustration in them not carrying the appropriate sized feeders but do understand that the seller's petsmart location may be more up to par than your location on keeping feeders in stock. Not all stores equal despite being the same chain - the seller was merely giving you options. One particular petsmat near me always has bugs, and another in the next city rarely has anything but large sized crickets available from time to time...

Tina, any chance you can provide some details about this clutch to put the accusation that this is a neonate cham to rest?
Click to expand...

Thank you. We were told we have to order 1000 of the pinheads at a time as they won't carry them due to their short life expectancy and they are $21.00 per 1000 - neither of which solves my problem now as we have combed thru the petsmart bin and can only find 1/4 (which we have torn the legs off per the sellers instructions)

I will post a pic tomorrow of this baby but the bottom line is she was too small to ship and too young to sell based on the convo's I've had with other breeders on cham forums. Not only that but we have gone thru extreme lengths to find food for her yesterday and today and to be accused by the seller of purposefully not feeding her is WAY OUT OF LINE. It's unprofessional AT BEST. It gives independent sellers a bad rap, truthfully. I was not expecting to spend $87 on food from an online distributor in a last ditch effort to sustain this baby and if she was of appropriate shipping/selling age this wouldn't be an issue.
 
Honestly you could use termites. I have used them for everything from baby chams to thumbnail dartfrogs with no body turning them down. If you have them in your area on a wooded lot (not near a household) then try them. I have even used them exclusively as a beginning feeder for both darts and chams up until they are large enough to take an easier to obtain sized cricket.
 
hoppingherps said:
Honestly you could use termites. I have used them for everything from baby chams to thumbnail dartfrogs with no body turning them down. If you have them in your area on a wooded lot (not near a household) then try them. I have even used them exclusively as a beginning feeder for both darts and chams up until they are large enough to take an easier to obtain sized cricket.
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I will send my son on a wooded termite mission tomorrow. How can I contain them in a feeder dish? Would dusting with reptical slow them down? That's another problem I'm running into.. the feeders we currently have are all over the place except for the crix that we've pulled the legs off of.. and they only live for a short while afterwards..
 
JeffreH: "Tina, any chance you can provide some details about this clutch to put the accusation that this is a neonate cham to rest?"

We have our documented hatch date starting the last week in June thru first week in July hence the 6-8 weeks. Some are smaller and some are bigger & the boys seem a little bigger generally than girls.
 
I am sorry that you're having this issue. I understand that it can be frustrating when things Dont go perfectly. BUT.... I have bought fryitflt cultures that have lasted weeks. You knew this animal was coming. Why did you not buy a culture before the animal came. You bought a 2" animal and Asked for smaller. You got a 1.5" animal. Both sizes eat the same prey. Your local pets mart doesn't keep specialty food on hand At all times. Nor should you rely on them to. IMHO. The food, caging and heat should have been set up days before arrival. At least! Also pin head crickets grow to a full 1" in 6 weeks provided they are given the correct care. I could see them possibly outgrowing the baby but they don't just die in 4 days unless you are not keeping them correctly. I have darts that I feed pin heads to. I order 1000 a month and what out grows the dart my baby leos, cresteds, grandis, and baby beardies eat. I don't think the seller is responsible for sending food, or making sure you have food available when you buy the animal. Its just not a sellers responsiblity. Buying an animal shouldn't be an impulse decision. And it's impulse decisions like this that the animals have to suffer through.
Do what you can but I think shipping her back because you didnt think about the full situation would just be detrimental to her.
Morgan Weiss
 
Homegrown Scales said:
I am sorry that you're having this issue. I understand that it can be frustrating when things Dont go perfectly. BUT.... I have bought fryitflt cultures that have lasted weeks. You knew this animal was coming. Why did you not buy a culture before the animal came. You bought a 2" animal and Asked for smaller. You got a 1.5" animal. Both sizes eat the same prey. Your local pets mart doesn't keep specialty food on hand At all times. Nor should you rely on them to. IMHO. The food, caging and heat should have been set up days before arrival. At least! Also pin head crickets grow to a full 1" in 6 weeks provided they are given the correct care. I could see them possibly outgrowing the baby but they don't just die in 4 days unless you are not keeping them correctly. I have darts that I feed pin heads to. I order 1000 a month and what out grows the dart my baby leos, cresteds, grandis, and baby beardies eat. I don't think the seller is responsible for sending food, or making sure you have food available when you buy the animal. Its just not a sellers responsiblity. Buying an animal shouldn't be an impulse decision. And it's impulse decisions like this that the animals have to suffer through.
Do what you can but I think shipping her back because you didnt think about the full situation would just be detrimental to her.
Morgan Weiss
Click to expand...

I have since learned that reputable breeders and sellers of panther chameleons do not and will not sell chams under 3 inches in length (preferably 3-4) as it is NOT in the animals best interest. We currently have a juvi and an adult cham. While we thought we could handle a smaller one we weren't prepped for this size due to the extremely delicate nature of them (as well as finding appropriate sized food). I am not a complainer and wouldn't have resorted to this had it not been stated that I was purposefully starving this baby. And don't misunderstand... I THOUGHT HER SMALLEST CHAM WAS 2 INCHES, so that's what we would have received even if she picked the runt. There is a huge diff between 1.5 and 2 when it comes to chameleons, especially pertaining to feeding.
 
Chamcrazi said:
I have since learned that reputable breeders and sellers of panther chameleons do not and will not sell chams under 3 inches in length (preferably 3-4) as it is NOT in the animals best interest. We currently have a juvi and an adult cham. While we thought we could handle a smaller one we weren't prepped for this size due to the extremely delicate nature of them (as well as finding appropriate sized food). I am not a complainer and wouldn't have resorted to this had it not been stated that I was purposefully starving this baby. And don't misunderstand... I THOUGHT HER SMALLEST CHAM WAS 2 INCHES, so that's what we would have received even if she picked the runt. There is a huge diff between 1.5 and 2 when it comes to chameleons, especially pertaining to feeding.
Click to expand...

A huge difference?? Are you serious?
This half inch is why we are still here?? The half inch YOU essentially asked for?
 
radera5 said:
A huge difference?? Are you serious?
This half inch is why we are still here?? The half inch YOU essentially asked for?
Click to expand...

I didn't ASK FOR 1/2 INCH! Are you not reading??! But let me ask you this, if I asked you to ship a 2 day old (whatever it is you sell) would you do it?? The seller should know more than the buyer IN PART to prevent situations like this. But let me state again I thought her smallest was 2 inches and at 2 they are more able to eat larger pray by about 2-3 mm - which if you know chams, you know it's easier to find larger crix (where I'm located, anyway)

I know I'll never trust another independent seller. That's what I know. I imagine by the replies I've received thus far, you find her response of accusing me of starving this animal appropriate as well as selling neonates far, far too soon FOR THE SAFETY OF THE ANIMAL.

I've said my peace here. I stand by it. I'm a seller (not of animals) and I have never once blamed a buyer or accused them (of x,y or z) no matter how badly I wanted to or how clueless they were. But then again, I've never sold anything that wasn't "ready" to be sold.
 
I generally go smaller for food when I order. Fruit fly would have been chowed down by both sized animals. As well as pin heads. I just dont see how you were thinking you could have gotten food to feed a 2" animal but not a 1.5" animal. Obviously petsmart doesnt have food under 1/4" which is really predictable. You obviously wanted a baby......you got a baby. The only thing you didnt do was get the food before hand even though it was a size that most petstores dont stock regularly. Im not saying you did this on purpose....GOD I hope not, all im saying is you werent prepared for an animal you knew you were buying, You thought you could run to the local petco and grab some tiny crickets. The issue is that you knew about the food size, animals size, husbandry etc. Yet you are blaming the seller for not sending food with it? You are upset because you got the animal you asked for?
Ive seen quite a few cham neonates and they arent 2" right out of the egg. Its sound like the baby was eating and established at time of sale.
 
Chamcrazi said:
I didn't ASK FOR 1/2 INCH! Are you not reading??! But let me ask you this, if I asked you to ship a 2 day old (whatever it is you sell) would you do it?? The seller should know more than the buyer IN PART to prevent situations like this. But let me state again I thought her smallest was 2 inches and at 2 they are more able to eat larger pray by about 2-3 mm - which if you know chams, you know it's easier to find larger crix (where I'm located, anyway)

The seller def. should have known that too!.....:rolleyes:

I know I'll never trust another independent seller. That's what I know.

That is too bad, you will surly miss out on some nice animals:yesnod:

I imagine by the replies I've received thus far, you find her response of accusing me of starving this animal appropriate as well as selling neonates far, far too soon FOR THE SAFETY OF THE ANIMAL.

Keep imagining......

I've said my peace here. I stand by it. I'm a seller (not of animals) and I have never once blamed a buyer or accused them (of x,y or z) no matter how badly I wanted to or how clueless they were. But then again, I've never sold anything that wasn't "ready" to be sold.
Click to expand...

Well I know when I order a small fry because I wanted something smaller than a medium.....I will not be pissed when it is too small that is for sure....

To me this seems similar to those people who buy an animal that they can not legally own in their county/town/ ect....then they blame it on the seller :NoNo:. That isn't really how this works. I know people all the time who buy balls who haven't shed or eaten yet, because they claim they can start the animal themselves.
 
Homegrown Scales said:
I generally go smaller for food when I order. Fruit fly would have been chowed down by both sized animals. As well as pin heads. I just dont see how you were thinking you could have gotten food to feed a 2" animal but not a 1.5" animal. Obviously petsmart doesnt have food under 1/4" which is really predictable. You obviously wanted a baby......you got a baby. The only thing you didnt do was get the food before hand even though it was a size that most petstores dont stock regularly. Im not saying you did this on purpose....GOD I hope not, all im saying is you werent prepared for an animal you knew you were buying, You thought you could run to the local petco and grab some tiny crickets. The issue is that you knew about the food size, animals size, husbandry etc. Yet you are blaming the seller for not sending food with it? You are upset because you got the animal you asked for?
Ive seen quite a few cham neonates and they arent 2" right out of the egg. Its sound like the baby was eating and established at time of sale.
Click to expand...

The animal I have is 1.5 inches tops. And chameleons (dont know about other animals/reptiles) should not be sold under 3. THIS is the industry standard, I didn't know but the SELLER should have. And that is in regards to length, not width. Width is 9 millimters tops. I was expecting wider because I don't have experience with newborns. My chams are older because,well, the sellers wouldn't fathom shipping something so small.
 
radera5 said:
Well I know when I order a small fry because I wanted something smaller than a medium.....I will not be pissed when it is too small that is for sure....

To me this seems similar to those people who buy an animal that they can not legally own in their county/town/ ect....then they blame it on the seller :NoNo:. That isn't really how this works. I know people all the time who buy balls who haven't shed or eaten yet, because they claim they can start the animal themselves.
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Charming. And might I ad, helpful as well.
 
Industry standard......this isn't a law! If a buyer sounds/ tries sounding experienced, sending a young animal isn't all that unheard of.
 
I am sorry.....I was trying to help YOU see what YOU did wrong.....you put all this out there to be talked about. You wrote everything I have replied too.....

I am curious though, what help would YOU like from me?
 
Chamcrazi said:
Nope, but there's a reason we have 'standards'. And while it's not unheard of, it's never in the animals best interest.
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It isn't in the animals best interest to be bought by someone who has no way of feeding it, then trying to blame that on someone else......that cham would have been just fine sent to MOST people who knowingly bought a baby cham!
 
radera5 said:
I am sorry.....I was trying to help YOU see what YOU did wrong.....you put all this out there to be talked about. You wrote everything I have replied too.....

I am curious though, what help would YOU like from me?
Click to expand...

So you are also of the mindset the seller isn't the least bit responsible for selling her animals far before they are ready to leave the nest? It's all on the buyer who NEVER claimed to have experience with x week old neonates? I see. No, you've been quite helpful. Thanks.
 
Chamcrazi said:
So you are also of the mindset the seller isn't the least bit responsible for selling her animals far before they are ready to leave the nest? It's all on the buyer who NEVER claimed to have experience with x week old neonates? I see. No, you've been quite helpful. Thanks.
Click to expand...

Clearly you are missing my point.....I can not say for sure that they were NOT ready to "leave the nest"......that is what YOU are saying......

Anytime!:beer:
 
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