East_Coast
Active member
A BOI post can be a serious thing.
I don't take it lightly.
I am a busy person with a large family to support and NO TIME for games.
I do this (reptiles) for a hobby and pure enjoyment in the very little free time I have in my life.
With that said, please read below regarding Jeff Otterberg.
Jeff Otterberg, aka Pudgsr on Fauna, www.pudsleopardgeckos.com, aka “Pud” bought 37 Leopard Geckos from me ten days ago.
I photographed all leopard geckos on Saturday August 13, 2011 and emailed the photo’s.
Also, 15 of the 37 were clearly photographed in a light booth and those photo’s are still in the leopard gecko classifieds.
Jeff Otterberg received all geckos on Tuesday, August 16, 2011.
Jeff Otterberg / Pud then claimed that I shipped them incorrectly (see below picture of the box I took after I finished packing it up).
He lied and stated, on the BOI, that I shipped geckos with no packing material.
He lied and stated, on the BOI, that I shipped them in cough syrup bottles.
He also stated that several had missing toes, broken bones, and possible metabolic bone disease (MBD) after he took some geckos (who knows whose) to a veterinarian six days later. I do not believe him and the pictures (below) do not lie.
Be warned of this guy. He is a bully and not someone I would consider dealing with again… not even for a toothpick.
Below are the emails from start to finish.
Pud to me 8/11
what could u do for the leopard geckos u posted tonight for all of them shipped to 68164. thanks Pudsleopardgeckos.com
PJ(me) to Pud 8/11
Hi,
Thank you for your email.
I'll ship to 68164 for $65.
Buy two or more geckos and take 20% off the geckos (since I am going to list a lot lets start there because I won't be able to keep track. I woke up to a bunch of requests for these geckos this morning.)
Buy a bunch and I will reduce the cost a little more.
I will be listing geckos as I have the time (I have about 35 out of the egg so far... you are seeing a good sample of what I have already).
My paypal account is [email protected].
Thank you,
Peter Jolles
Pud to PJ 8/11
looking at geckos bx9-1749, bx9-1743, bx9-1737, bx8-1733, bx8-1725, bx8-1717, bx7-1706, bx6-1702, bx6-1695, bx5-1690, bx4-1679, bx3-1670, bx2-1661, bx1-1654, bx1-1649, I think these are all I see on fauna seeing what deal u can give me for them Peter. thanks Pud Pudsleopardgeckos.com
PJ to Pud 8/11
How about $300 shipped for all 15?
My paypal account is [email protected]
I can ship as soon as Monday.
Thank you,
Peter
Pud to PJ 8/11
money was sent to u. what shipping company do u use? and could u send me a tracking number? and this is overnight right? thanks Pud
PJ to Pud 8/11
Thanks
Yes, SYR - fedex priority overnight
I will send tracking info this weekend
Thank you!!!!
Peter Jolles
PJ to Pud 8/11
Pud,
Also - I have 5 - 15 more that are big enough to sell (i.e., not 4 gram day-old babies).
Are you interested? I can take pics.
Thanks,
Peter
Pud to PJ 8/12
yes send me pics of the ones you are talking about. Pud
PJ to Pud 8/12
Pud,
OK - I will try to get pics of them by Saturday night.
Thanks,
Peter Jolles
Pud to PJ 8/12
okay
PJ to Pud 8/12
Pud,
I really don't want to (but I will) take individual pics of more.
Here is an offer for you - I'll give you what I have left (20 or so geckos) for $10 each if you will let me just take pics of them in their bins / shoe boxes (overall pics).
These are 4 gram to 10/15 gram juvies that have hatched this summer.
A couple are probably "Mack Snow" but I am not a morph expert, a few are high yellow / normals; most are tangerines, hypo tangs, etc.
If you are interested in that I would take the pics tomorrow showing them.
Also - I would send them in a 16" x 12" x 12" box with 3/4" styrofoam and they would be packed properly.
Thanks,
Peter
Pud to PJ 8/12
so it would be an extra 200 shipped then for everything?? Pud
PJ to Pud 8/12
Yes, but let me get an actual count.
I'll get this done tomorrow.
There may be 18 more... there may be 27 more.... I need to actually do a count.
BUT - yes, you are correct: you have already paid for shipping.
Thanks,
Peter
PJ to Pud 8/13
Pud,
See below. bx17 and bx18 show pictures with geckos you have already bought and additional geckos.
bx17_1761 (file name) shows 3 additional female geckos (above what you already bought)
bx18_1762 shows 3 additional female geckos (above what you already bought)
bx10_1754 - 1 female
bx11_1755 - 1 male
bx12_1756 - 1 male
bx13_1757 - 1 female
bx14_1758 - 1 female
bx15_1759 - 4 females
bx16_1760 - 5 females
bx17_1761 - 3 addt'l females
bx18-1762 - 3 addt'l females
20 total --- $200
See also two 30 to 35 gram male SHTCT LG's. I'll give those to you for $50.
So, if you want all 20 of those geckos the price is $200.
If you want the two young adult male SHTCT's also the TOTAL price is $250.
Again, you have already covered shipping.
Thanks!
Peter
(Below are the photographs, all taken on August 13, 2011, that I attached to the email):
[img http://peterjolles.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/bx12_1756_male.jpg[/img]
Pud to PJ 8/14
im going to paypal you 250 for all those geckos listed let me know when u are going to ship. thanks Jeff Pudsleopardgeckos.com
(Pud then paid $250 via Paypal)
PJ to Pud 8/14
Jeff,
Thanks. I intend to ship tomorrow. Are you able to receive on Tuesday?
Please advise.
Peter Jolles
Pud to PJ 8/14
yes Peter that will work with me. Pud
PJ to Pud 8/15
Packing up now.
FYI and before I forget; bx_1690 is a TSF and not a TSM.
Peter Jolles
PJ to Pud 8/15
Jeff,
Can you give me your phone number for the shipping label?
Thanks,
Peter
Pud to PJ 8/15
its xxx-xxx-xxxx thanks Jeff
PJ to Pud 8/15
Jeff,
I will drop them off shortly.
FYI - I added two to the order --- you will receive 39 total.
All containers are labeled. TSM's and confirmed males are in individual containers.
Thanks!
Peter
(Here is the open box, this was not emailed to Pud)
Pud to PJ 8/15
thanks Peter I will let u know when I get them Pud.
PJ to Pud 8/16
Jeff,
I am emailing to check and see if everything is OK?
Thanks,
Peter
Pud to PJ 8/16
yea I got them the geckos were cramped. A lot of them can barely move their legs which is due to a lack of calcium for their bones in which u did not keep up. Some of them had missing toes. So overall im not happy with u at all. I know from experience some of these will die within the next few days. Jeff
PJ to Pud 8/16
Jeff,
I am extremely surprised to get this email.
I did not see any issues with those geckos. They all had a hide box with damp spaghum moss in each enclosure.
Since none ever died on me when I had them I don't understand how they could be on death's door now.
Additionally, those geckos, all of them, were fed on mealworms, superworms, and dubia roaches that were in turn fed on fresh vegetables (all different kinds) from a home garden.
Occasionally I bought crickets and dusted them - so I am not of the opinion that they were lacking nutritionally.
Finally, since I saw all of them moving in their cages and eating I don't know what to say about them "not able to move their legs".
Regarding them being "cramped"; I think they were packed properly.
Peter Jolles
PJ to Pud 8/16
Jeff,
I just got the message you left a few minutes ago.
Let me start by asking you this: what would make you happy with our transaction?
Thanks,
Peter Jolles
Pud to PJ 8/16
first to talk to me on the phone and then go from their Jeff
PJ to Pud 8/16
Jeff,
I am sorry - I am busy at night with my family.
I think I am an hour or so ahead of you time-wise and I am in bed now.
Also, given the nature of the BOI, etc - I would prefer to handle this with written communication.
I don't intend to take all your money and hide: what will make you happy with our transaction?
We made the whole deal by email and I believe you had a photo of each gecko - I did not see any stiff-legged geckos and I did not notice any missing toes.
Honestly.
At this point you are not happy. Let me know what will make you walk away feeling, "Peter treated me OK?"
I have some ideas but I want to know what you want.
Peter Jolles
Pud to PJ 8/16
im going to try to feed them tonight and give them calcium through a tube since of the geckos bones are way to weak to walk. I want to see what happens but im thinking about some money refunded back to me. Especially u don’t put animals in cough syrup or whatever two containers u used. That was stupid and putting to many geckos in a tub that small is bad for the geckos and not humane. It seems like u didn’t even care about them even though your posts made it seem otherwise. I will see how many geckos are sick and let u know and figure out a total from their. Jeff
PJ to Pud 8/17
Jeff,
Those were not cough syrup bottles they were empty milk bottles.
I would think anyone who is not "stupid" (which you have called me twice now) would know this simply due to the fact that they were easy to twist open.
Whose the dumbass now?
The geckos were packed properly.
Watch your attitude and stop with the personal attacks.
Peter Jolles
Pud to PJ 8/17
I don’t care if they were milk bottles or syrup bottles u never ship animals in containers like that. U don’t know how to package properly and im wanting $150 back for the trouble of these geckos and some which I know that they will die. I have already been in contact with some high end breeders that know me well and will vouch for me on anything. Your geckos are pretty much worthless and will post this all on fauna too!!! That u are not a good person to deal with. Very bad animals and bad packing. I need to see that money into my paypal account within 48 hours or more action will be done. Jeff
PJ to Pud 8/17
Jeff,
Thank you for your email.
Kindly send me a request for a refund in a polite tone and I will consider your request.
Thank you,
Peter
Pud to PJ 8/17
no Im not backing down from my tone I guess u will be posted on fauna then. And its not like I was cussing you out or anything like that. You sold me bad geckos and packaged them up wrong. END OF STORY Jeff
PJ to Pud 8/17
Jeff, or Pud, or whatever your name is -
I offered to work with you and make you happy. Immediately.
You responded with continued insults and nasty comments.
Do what you want at this point - I will not refund anything to anyone who talks to me like this.
I tried to make this right and you are being a DICK.
End of story.
- Peter
Pud to PJ 8/17
u would be upset to if someone sold u bad animals so the feeling is the same way. I want to know what nasty comments I made everything I said was truthfully and no lies, since u want to be that way I will contact and post negative feedback on fauna. Simple and done. Pud is my nickname which everyone calls me so u know so back off.
EMAILS COMPLETE.
Judge for yourself.
I don't take it lightly.
I am a busy person with a large family to support and NO TIME for games.
I do this (reptiles) for a hobby and pure enjoyment in the very little free time I have in my life.
With that said, please read below regarding Jeff Otterberg.
Jeff Otterberg, aka Pudgsr on Fauna, www.pudsleopardgeckos.com, aka “Pud” bought 37 Leopard Geckos from me ten days ago.
I photographed all leopard geckos on Saturday August 13, 2011 and emailed the photo’s.
Also, 15 of the 37 were clearly photographed in a light booth and those photo’s are still in the leopard gecko classifieds.
Jeff Otterberg received all geckos on Tuesday, August 16, 2011.
Jeff Otterberg / Pud then claimed that I shipped them incorrectly (see below picture of the box I took after I finished packing it up).
He lied and stated, on the BOI, that I shipped geckos with no packing material.
He lied and stated, on the BOI, that I shipped them in cough syrup bottles.
He also stated that several had missing toes, broken bones, and possible metabolic bone disease (MBD) after he took some geckos (who knows whose) to a veterinarian six days later. I do not believe him and the pictures (below) do not lie.
Be warned of this guy. He is a bully and not someone I would consider dealing with again… not even for a toothpick.
Below are the emails from start to finish.
Pud to me 8/11
what could u do for the leopard geckos u posted tonight for all of them shipped to 68164. thanks Pudsleopardgeckos.com
PJ(me) to Pud 8/11
Hi,
Thank you for your email.
I'll ship to 68164 for $65.
Buy two or more geckos and take 20% off the geckos (since I am going to list a lot lets start there because I won't be able to keep track. I woke up to a bunch of requests for these geckos this morning.)
Buy a bunch and I will reduce the cost a little more.
I will be listing geckos as I have the time (I have about 35 out of the egg so far... you are seeing a good sample of what I have already).
My paypal account is [email protected].
Thank you,
Peter Jolles
Pud to PJ 8/11
looking at geckos bx9-1749, bx9-1743, bx9-1737, bx8-1733, bx8-1725, bx8-1717, bx7-1706, bx6-1702, bx6-1695, bx5-1690, bx4-1679, bx3-1670, bx2-1661, bx1-1654, bx1-1649, I think these are all I see on fauna seeing what deal u can give me for them Peter. thanks Pud Pudsleopardgeckos.com
PJ to Pud 8/11
How about $300 shipped for all 15?
My paypal account is [email protected]
I can ship as soon as Monday.
Thank you,
Peter
Pud to PJ 8/11
money was sent to u. what shipping company do u use? and could u send me a tracking number? and this is overnight right? thanks Pud
PJ to Pud 8/11
Thanks
Yes, SYR - fedex priority overnight
I will send tracking info this weekend
Thank you!!!!
Peter Jolles
PJ to Pud 8/11
Pud,
Also - I have 5 - 15 more that are big enough to sell (i.e., not 4 gram day-old babies).
Are you interested? I can take pics.
Thanks,
Peter
Pud to PJ 8/12
yes send me pics of the ones you are talking about. Pud
PJ to Pud 8/12
Pud,
OK - I will try to get pics of them by Saturday night.
Thanks,
Peter Jolles
Pud to PJ 8/12
okay
PJ to Pud 8/12
Pud,
I really don't want to (but I will) take individual pics of more.
Here is an offer for you - I'll give you what I have left (20 or so geckos) for $10 each if you will let me just take pics of them in their bins / shoe boxes (overall pics).
These are 4 gram to 10/15 gram juvies that have hatched this summer.
A couple are probably "Mack Snow" but I am not a morph expert, a few are high yellow / normals; most are tangerines, hypo tangs, etc.
If you are interested in that I would take the pics tomorrow showing them.
Also - I would send them in a 16" x 12" x 12" box with 3/4" styrofoam and they would be packed properly.
Thanks,
Peter
Pud to PJ 8/12
so it would be an extra 200 shipped then for everything?? Pud
PJ to Pud 8/12
Yes, but let me get an actual count.
I'll get this done tomorrow.
There may be 18 more... there may be 27 more.... I need to actually do a count.
BUT - yes, you are correct: you have already paid for shipping.
Thanks,
Peter
PJ to Pud 8/13
Pud,
See below. bx17 and bx18 show pictures with geckos you have already bought and additional geckos.
bx17_1761 (file name) shows 3 additional female geckos (above what you already bought)
bx18_1762 shows 3 additional female geckos (above what you already bought)
bx10_1754 - 1 female
bx11_1755 - 1 male
bx12_1756 - 1 male
bx13_1757 - 1 female
bx14_1758 - 1 female
bx15_1759 - 4 females
bx16_1760 - 5 females
bx17_1761 - 3 addt'l females
bx18-1762 - 3 addt'l females
20 total --- $200
See also two 30 to 35 gram male SHTCT LG's. I'll give those to you for $50.
So, if you want all 20 of those geckos the price is $200.
If you want the two young adult male SHTCT's also the TOTAL price is $250.
Again, you have already covered shipping.
Thanks!
Peter
(Below are the photographs, all taken on August 13, 2011, that I attached to the email):
[img http://peterjolles.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/bx12_1756_male.jpg[/img]
Pud to PJ 8/14
im going to paypal you 250 for all those geckos listed let me know when u are going to ship. thanks Jeff Pudsleopardgeckos.com
(Pud then paid $250 via Paypal)
PJ to Pud 8/14
Jeff,
Thanks. I intend to ship tomorrow. Are you able to receive on Tuesday?
Please advise.
Peter Jolles
Pud to PJ 8/14
yes Peter that will work with me. Pud
PJ to Pud 8/15
Packing up now.
FYI and before I forget; bx_1690 is a TSF and not a TSM.
Peter Jolles
PJ to Pud 8/15
Jeff,
Can you give me your phone number for the shipping label?
Thanks,
Peter
Pud to PJ 8/15
its xxx-xxx-xxxx thanks Jeff
PJ to Pud 8/15
Jeff,
I will drop them off shortly.
FYI - I added two to the order --- you will receive 39 total.
All containers are labeled. TSM's and confirmed males are in individual containers.
Thanks!
Peter
(Here is the open box, this was not emailed to Pud)
Pud to PJ 8/15
thanks Peter I will let u know when I get them Pud.
PJ to Pud 8/16
Jeff,
I am emailing to check and see if everything is OK?
Thanks,
Peter
Pud to PJ 8/16
yea I got them the geckos were cramped. A lot of them can barely move their legs which is due to a lack of calcium for their bones in which u did not keep up. Some of them had missing toes. So overall im not happy with u at all. I know from experience some of these will die within the next few days. Jeff
PJ to Pud 8/16
Jeff,
I am extremely surprised to get this email.
I did not see any issues with those geckos. They all had a hide box with damp spaghum moss in each enclosure.
Since none ever died on me when I had them I don't understand how they could be on death's door now.
Additionally, those geckos, all of them, were fed on mealworms, superworms, and dubia roaches that were in turn fed on fresh vegetables (all different kinds) from a home garden.
Occasionally I bought crickets and dusted them - so I am not of the opinion that they were lacking nutritionally.
Finally, since I saw all of them moving in their cages and eating I don't know what to say about them "not able to move their legs".
Regarding them being "cramped"; I think they were packed properly.
Peter Jolles
PJ to Pud 8/16
Jeff,
I just got the message you left a few minutes ago.
Let me start by asking you this: what would make you happy with our transaction?
Thanks,
Peter Jolles
Pud to PJ 8/16
first to talk to me on the phone and then go from their Jeff
PJ to Pud 8/16
Jeff,
I am sorry - I am busy at night with my family.
I think I am an hour or so ahead of you time-wise and I am in bed now.
Also, given the nature of the BOI, etc - I would prefer to handle this with written communication.
I don't intend to take all your money and hide: what will make you happy with our transaction?
We made the whole deal by email and I believe you had a photo of each gecko - I did not see any stiff-legged geckos and I did not notice any missing toes.
Honestly.
At this point you are not happy. Let me know what will make you walk away feeling, "Peter treated me OK?"
I have some ideas but I want to know what you want.
Peter Jolles
Pud to PJ 8/16
im going to try to feed them tonight and give them calcium through a tube since of the geckos bones are way to weak to walk. I want to see what happens but im thinking about some money refunded back to me. Especially u don’t put animals in cough syrup or whatever two containers u used. That was stupid and putting to many geckos in a tub that small is bad for the geckos and not humane. It seems like u didn’t even care about them even though your posts made it seem otherwise. I will see how many geckos are sick and let u know and figure out a total from their. Jeff
PJ to Pud 8/17
Jeff,
Those were not cough syrup bottles they were empty milk bottles.
I would think anyone who is not "stupid" (which you have called me twice now) would know this simply due to the fact that they were easy to twist open.
Whose the dumbass now?
The geckos were packed properly.
Watch your attitude and stop with the personal attacks.
Peter Jolles
Pud to PJ 8/17
I don’t care if they were milk bottles or syrup bottles u never ship animals in containers like that. U don’t know how to package properly and im wanting $150 back for the trouble of these geckos and some which I know that they will die. I have already been in contact with some high end breeders that know me well and will vouch for me on anything. Your geckos are pretty much worthless and will post this all on fauna too!!! That u are not a good person to deal with. Very bad animals and bad packing. I need to see that money into my paypal account within 48 hours or more action will be done. Jeff
PJ to Pud 8/17
Jeff,
Thank you for your email.
Kindly send me a request for a refund in a polite tone and I will consider your request.
Thank you,
Peter
Pud to PJ 8/17
no Im not backing down from my tone I guess u will be posted on fauna then. And its not like I was cussing you out or anything like that. You sold me bad geckos and packaged them up wrong. END OF STORY Jeff
PJ to Pud 8/17
Jeff, or Pud, or whatever your name is -
I offered to work with you and make you happy. Immediately.
You responded with continued insults and nasty comments.
Do what you want at this point - I will not refund anything to anyone who talks to me like this.
I tried to make this right and you are being a DICK.
End of story.
- Peter
Pud to PJ 8/17
u would be upset to if someone sold u bad animals so the feeling is the same way. I want to know what nasty comments I made everything I said was truthfully and no lies, since u want to be that way I will contact and post negative feedback on fauna. Simple and done. Pud is my nickname which everyone calls me so u know so back off.
EMAILS COMPLETE.
Judge for yourself.
