Bad Guy DALE PICOLLA BAD GUY

[John Adragna]

James, as I wrote above, I am going to take video IF weather allows... we might be swimming with this category 3 coming up.

 

[Gregg Madden]

Agreed. While he may still technically be in violation, I just do not see how the city of New York is going to be able to go after someone that lives that far out of their jurisdiction (especially when they have a local suspect right there in their back yard that seems to have knowingly violated the local laws there).

Did you not read my post??? There are certain circumstances that do allow individuals to keep animals that are otherwise prohibited in the state or city or both... So unless you know the particulars, bringing up the legality to mask the real issue is just a waste of time...

Even if the animal was illegally obtained, it does not make the OPs claim any less legit... How would buying an animal that may or may not be a board of health violation make it ok to be ripped off??? Let try to keep this on topic...

 

[pch101]

Did you not read my post??? There are certain circumstances that do allow individuals to keep animals that are otherwise prohibited in the state or city or both... So unless you know the particulars, bringing up the legality to mask the real issue is just a waste of time...

Even if the animal was illegally obtained, it does not make the OPs claim any less legit... How would buying an animal that may or may not be a board of health violation make it ok to be ripped off??? Let try to keep this on topic...

Actually, I did read your post, and I might ask you the same question. I never said that the animals potential illegal status in New York made the OP's claim any less legit. Where did you come up with that? That being said, his claim is nothing more than just that until he provides us with some evidence. Nobody is trying to mask anything, and the legal status of the animal is definitely on topic, and fair game. It was rightfully brought up as a concern in regard to both parties, and I have every right to comment on it, as it is a concern that affects us all as reptile keepers. In addition, just because special circumstances may exist that may allow the legal keeping of Monitors in New York, does not in anyway mean that this is one of them. I assume that if these special circumstances do exist, there is some sort of permit involved, and I for one would be interested in having that evidence provided to us along with the video and the Vet report. I have no idea where this case is going to go, but there is definitely more than one concern to be dealt with on this thread, and like it or not, they have both be addressed and hopefully they will continue to be addressed until we get all of the facts.

 

[pch101]

The fact is, there is a sick/injured animal... If the animal was injured during transit, that means the shipper did not ship correctly... I have shipped hundreds for animals and never had a single injury or fatality during shipping... If the animal was sick on arrival, it was sick when shipped...

Have we actually established for a fact that it is injured or sick? It actually looks as though you have made up your mind on this one before the evidence is even in. However, I choose to remain impartial, and unconvinced until some actual evidence comes in. The last thing we need to do is hang Dale prematurely. That being said If the evidence proves the OP's claims, then it will be time to "get a rope".

 

[pch101]

James, as I wrote above, I am going to take video IF weather allows... we might be swimming with this category 3 coming up.

Thanks, and be safe.

 

[Gregg Madden]

Have we actually established for a fact that it is injured or sick? It actually looks as though you have made up your mind on this one before the evidence is even in.

I actually knew the entire story before it hit the BOI... Johnantny is my friend and business partner... He was called by Ron to check the animal... I was told how messed up it was... So based on Johns info, yes, my mind is made up...

I will try to video the above animal at Ron's place this weekend at Ron's request. I did see it in person when it arrived and also remarked about its coordination.

 

[cobraman1]

So far the OP has shown no sign of proof what so ever. I dont know about the rest of you, but If I thought I was owed $1500, I would be posting every piece of evidence that I could. Where are the pics, the vet statment, or the video? Also, why does he feel he should be refunded and keep the snake?

 

[cobraman1]

So far the OP has shown no sign of proof what so ever. I dont know about the rest of you, but If I thought I was owed $1500, I would be posting every piece of evidence that I could. Where are the pics, the vet statment, or the video? Also, why does he feel he should be refunded and keep the snake?

Monitor, not snake.

 

[Gregg Madden]

So far the OP has shown no sign of proof what so ever. I dont know about the rest of you, but If I thought I was owed $1500, I would be posting every piece of evidence that I could. Where are the pics, the vet statment, or the video? Also, why does he feel he should be refunded and keep the snake?

Did you ever consider the fact that maybe the OP has been out of town??? People around here assume too much... It was also stated a couple of times that vids will be posted this weekend in this thread...

 

[cobraman1]

Did you ever consider the fact that maybe the OP has been out of town??? People around here assume too much... It was also stated a couple of times that vids will be posted this weekend in this thread...

Maybe he is out of town, but I doubt it. Considering he told dale he would send him video and pics, but failed to do that as well, so...? All Im saying is, if you paid that much for an animal and the animals was as bad as the op claims, then why wouldnt he have sent pics and video to the sender already. I dont understand why he would even expect dale to refund him without any proof at all the the animal was sick. You tell me, if someone claimed that you sent them a horribly sick animal and wanted there money back, would you just say"ok" without any proof the animal was actually sick. You say the everyone "assumes" too much, but isnt that exactly what the op wanted us to do? He just wants us to "assume" he is telling the truth. Maybe the monitor is sick, but with out anything to back it up, I wouldnt have refunded him either.

 

[Lucille]

Even if the animal was illegally obtained, it does not make the OPs claim any less legit... How would buying an animal that may or may not be a board of health violation make it ok to be ripped off??? Let try to keep this on topic...

It seems like you are saying that if parties break the law in a transaction, they are entitled to the law's protection when the transaction goes wrong.

I don't think so.

Did you ever consider the fact that maybe the OP has been out of town???

So is this allegedly sick critter fending for itself?

 

[ivgonmad]

So far the OP has shown no sign of proof what so ever. I dont know about the rest of you, but If I thought I was owed $1500, I would be posting every piece of evidence that I could. Where are the pics, the vet statment, or the video? Also, why does he feel he should be refunded and keep the snake?

No video, no pics, and no veterinary statement. Hard to scan a non-existent letter from a Vet? Its not difficult to post a video or pics really.

ESPECIALLY IF THERE IS A POSSIBLE LOSS OF $1500

Losing that much is enough motivation to post some video and pics ASAP. You even had time to have this animal checked by a Vet, but no time to post the results?

How long has it been since he received the animal?


I would say if it is more than a week and no proof has been provided then Dale should not give a refund. How do we know he didnt force feed him Drano or some other messed up thing so he can get his money back?

I would have been suspicious if the person had waited more than 24 hours to provide me proof of the injuries.


If this had happened to anyone else you would have had that person on the phone the second they received the "sick" animal. Pics and video would have been provided and the animal shipped back immediately for Dale to deal with the medical issues.

Just doesn't add up to me.

 

[the gecko geek]

I know this is a little bit off topic, and I don't want to retract from the situation, so I am only going to say this one bit and then get back to the situation.

One of the few problems I see with the BOI is that everyone wants hard proof before the OP has time to even think...Yes I feel that someone should have everything ready before going to the BOI, but come on people, just calm down and give it some time. Why does everything have to be so rushed? If everyone was rushing me, I would just stop posting. Why is everyone reaching down his throat for the evidence? Do you really have nothing else to do all day but read through to BOI and look for hard evidence? Sheesh..

Anywhoo, I feel that the more important thing is the health of the animal. If it dies it's not really gonna matter about its legal or illegal status in New York. Health first, legality later. And what is this about being protected by the law? Just because the animal in question may be illegal what does that have to do with the two parties' transaction? The health of the animal has nothing to do with it's legal status. Paypal isn't going to care where the animal is, and if the legality is for some reason that important than the monitor should go back to California, and the OP should get his money back.

That should be it. End of story.

 

[pch101]

I know this is a little bit off topic, and I don't want to retract from the situation, so I am only going to say this one bit and then get back to the situation. One of the few problems I see with the BOI is that everyone wants hard proof before the OP has time to even think...

That is simply not the case at all. OP has had plenty of time to think. The OP received the animal 15 days ago, and has had all that time to provide some proof. He claims he went to the Vet, but proof of a Vet report has not been sent to the seller or any of us here on the BOI who are here to help. Like it or not, people here will require some proof. I do not see how that is a problem.

Yes I feel that someone should have everything ready before going to the BOI.

Agreed, so why the previous comment?

but come on people, just calm down and give it some time. Why does everything have to be so rushed?

What??? You just said that you felt someone should have everything ready before going to the BOI. The OP came here with no evidence except for a "he said she said" email conversation. So which is it? Seriously, how much time do you want to give him? It has been 15 days since he received the animal, and 4 days since he posted this thread. I do not think it is asking too much for us to expect a person to provide some sort of proof in regard to "Bad Guy" accusations made here about another person. No one is rushing the guy, but it seems pretty silly to me for someone to come here looking for help, and not provide any evidence in a reasonable amount of time.

If everyone was rushing me, I would just stop posting.

Well, then you would not get any help, and your credibility would most likely fall into question.

Why is everyone reaching down his throat for the evidence?

Because evidence is required to get to the bottom of this situation. Seriously, what are you thinking? No one is asking for anything unreasonable. He has had more than enough time to provide the seller with some sort of evidence of what he is claiming. Now he is making claims to us that dale is a "Bad Guy". Well, sorry, but we do need some sort of proof to these accusations before conclusion can be made. That is just the way it is.

Do you really have nothing else to do all day but read through to BOI and look for hard evidence? Sheesh..

Here we go again with this famous line. Those members that have been here for awhile are all too familiar with this tell tale cry of the poster who has nothing of any substance to contribute. It is most definitely irony at its finest. Anyone reasonable person would require some evidence before giving credibility to a bad guy statement made here. Sheesh indeed...

Anywhoo, I feel that the more important thing is the health of the animal.

And we can't really get the real story on the animal's health until some evidence is provided now can we? Hey, maybe there is a reason for us to do all that nasty rushing that you feel we are doing after all. It seems like you just came up with a great argument against your own previous complaints.

If it dies it's not really gonna matter about its legal or illegal status in New York.

Tell that to the authorities there.

Health first, legality later.

Ironic, once again, in that if legality would have been recognized first, health would have never even been an issue in the first place. So, I beg to differ.

And what is this about being protected by the law?

Maybe you did not understand Lucille's post. It was a complicated point.

Just because the animal in question may be illegal what does that have to do with the two parties' transaction?

It has a lot to do with the transaction, and it it sheds light on the type of people we are dealing with, and it is an issue that affects us all.

The health of the animal has nothing to do with it's legal status.

One could make that argument. However, if its legal status in NY would have been taken into consideration, then this whole mess could have been avoided. So again, it could be argued that one actually does affect the other.

Paypal isn't going to care where the animal is

Has it even been established that paypal was the payment method used? If so, they may indeed care.

and if the legality is for some reason that important than the monitor should go back to California, and the OP should get his money back. That should be it. End of story.

That is the smartest thing you have said in the whole post, and I would agree had it been within a reasonable amount of time, but the OP waited 48 hours to notify the seller, never provided any evidence to support his claims, and demanded his money back while still keeping the monitor for himself? Now, 15 days later, things are even a bigger mess. Is Dale responsible for an animal that has been out of his care for 15 days? Something to think about.

 

[the gecko geek]

I just feel that everyone rushes for all the information. I think they are both in the wrong for not knowing the laws of where it was shipped to. I agree with the fact that whoever provides the most legitimate case is obviously the winner, but why must it be so rushed?

I have a tendency to write and say contradictory and confusing things right after another (its just the way things come out of my brain and mouth), so i apologize for my very strange and probably confusing posts.

The whole situation is like a blown up mine field. Dale says one thing, OP's friend says another, and of course no one can admit to any mistakes these days because they are too hard headed and "proud" for that.
I say take it to Judge Judy! She would settle it once and for all!

 

[Lucille]

I say take it to Judge Judy! She would settle it once and for all!

The BOI has many uses. It does not always 'settle' conflicts, although sometimes that happens.
What is valuable it for readers to see the way each party handles themselves in the conflicting transaction, and to make up their minds whether they would do business with such a person in the future. So the process is sometimes as valuable as the outcome, especially for prospective buyers and sellers.

So, a Judy gavel might cut short the usefulness of this thread. Readers might ask themselves if they would buy or sell to parties not posting facts after posting accusations. Would you?

 

[pch101]

I just feel that everyone rushes for all the information. I think they are both in the wrong for not knowing the laws of where it was shipped to. I agree with the fact that whoever provides the most legitimate case is obviously the winner, but why must it be so rushed?

Again, I think you answered this concern in your original post where you mentioned the animal's health. We can never find out what is going on with the Monitor's health, or figure out what to do if we do not get some more information in the form of evidence. So, in this case, a rush would be in order. That being said, I see no real urgency on the part of the OP.

I have a tendency to write and say contradictory and confusing things right after another (its just the way things come out of my brain and mouth), so i apologize for my very strange and probably confusing posts.

No need for apology, and it is good to know that you are thinking about both sides.

The whole situation is like a blown up mine field. Dale says one thing, OP's friend says another, and of course no one can admit to any mistakes these days because they are too hard headed and "proud" for that.

All the more reason for some actual evidence. This Monitor deserves better.

I say take it to Judge Judy! She would settle it once and for all!

Yes, she most likely would. That being said, she would probably want some evidence as well.

 

[the gecko geek]

The BOI has many uses. It does not always 'settle' conflicts, although sometimes that happens.
What is valuable it for readers to see the way each party handles themselves in the conflicting transaction, and to make up their minds whether they would do business with such a person in the future. So the process is sometimes as valuable as the outcome, especially for prospective buyers and sellers.

So, a Judy gavel might cut short the usefulness of this thread. Readers might ask themselves if they would buy or sell to parties not posting facts after posting accusations. Would you?

Yes this is true, but if someone posts accusations, a few people ask for proof, and they never show up or say anything again it reasons for itself that it was a pointless and obviously false accusation correct? So then why must everyone jump in and demand proof?

 

[pch101]

I have no dog in this hunt. I do not know the seller or the buyer. That being said what bothers me the most by this transaction is in the emails. Now I don't know about the rest of the readers here, but I would never discourage a keeper from seeking some medical advice. Even if it's for a little piece of mind. Not taking it to the vet makes it look like the seller has something to hide

You have a very good point.

 

[Lucille]

Yes this is true, but if someone posts accusations, a few people ask for proof, and they never show up or say anything again it reasons for itself that it was a pointless and obviously false accusation correct? So then why must everyone jump in and demand proof?

Jordan

Accusations here can affect reputations and livelihoods. The community here is aware of this, and aware that unfounded accusations can smear a rep, and accusations with reason can protect those who might be about to engage in transactions with the accused.

Proof on the BOI is in fact not required, but those who come with unfounded tales may not be given much weight.