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Info Craig Hughes (twohy4you)

bullies&balls said:
NO WAY would that stand up in a court. Not saying he isn't entitled to 2 snakes from this group. Also, for all the people saying NEVER do it w/o a contract and you'll lose friends, ALL I can say to you is STOP BEING GREEDY SOBs. :thumbsup:
Click to expand...

How is recommending never doing a breeding loan, especially with friends without a clear and concise contract being greedy? At the time that the contract is drawn up, if either party doesn't agree with the terms of the contract, then it's either worked out BEFORE any breeding occurs, or the breeding doesn't happen.

A contract may not prevent a situation like this from happening, but it sure helps clear up the gray areas and sets expectations from the start.

I don't consider it greedy, I consider it a sound business practice.

Now, full disclosure - I DO have a couple of friends that I never had an official contract with, but we love and respect and trust each other enough, that we've never allowed animals to come between our friendships.
 
bullies&balls said:
Sorry Deb, but I disagree with this statement. Many owner/breeders collections are small enough that a suprise clutch will NOT happen. Many breeders are able toi check on their collections MULTIPLE times per day and KNOW when mating behavior is happening or not. JMO
Click to expand...

I had a breeder loan this season. My het hypo female to a POG. My friend has a small collection (compared to others), and works from home and is in her snake room all the time. She never witnessed a single copulation or mating behavior and we agreed my girl would just spend another season with her and we'd try again this coming season.

She was quite surprised to one day find that my girl was ovulating, and a POG, 2 pastel het hypos and two het hypos hatched out this summer. She said that every single time she checked on them - multiple times a day when they were together, the POG was in one corner of the enclosure and my het hypo was in a corner at the opposite end of the enclosure.

You can't KNOW with 100% certainty.
 
deborahbroadus said:
I prefer NOT to rely on human error. I prefer to keep "flawless" records so that if anything strange pops up later...I have some record of what went in a tub with any of my females.

Keeping records, imo, trumps trusting. :shrug01:
Click to expand...

Sorry, but saying that keeping flawless records doesn't mean squat. You can inspect your animals MULITPLE TIMES A DAY and still KEEP flawless records. Just because she didn't have the YB on tracking doesn't mean she didn't know the times he was introduced to thte female.
 
rabernet said:
How is recommending never doing a breeding loan, especially with friends without a clear and concise contract being greedy? At the time that the contract is drawn up, if either party doesn't agree with the terms of the contract, then it's either worked out BEFORE any breeding occurs, or the breeding doesn't happen.

A contract may not prevent a situation like this from happening, but it sure helps clear up the gray areas and sets expectations from the start.

I don't consider it greedy, I consider it a sound business practice.

Now, full disclosure - I DO have a couple of friends that I never had an official contract with, but we love and respect and trust each other enough, that we've never allowed animals to come between our friendships.
Click to expand...

I guess this is where I was going. Since they were "friends" before this. If it was between 1 business and another, then yes, a contract would be essential.
 
bullies&balls said:
I guess this is where I was going. Since they were "friends" before this. If it was between 1 business and another, then yes, a contract would be essential.
Click to expand...

This is the perspective I am viewing all of this from. Nothing about this came across as a "business transaction". This was, based on the info presented, an agreement between friends. Both offered up a snake with the intention of a 50/50 split because that is how friends do it. Unfortunately, one party threw friendship to the side and only saw perceived monetary value. Greed is a powerful thing I guess.
 
bsharrah said:
This is the perspective I am viewing all of this from. Nothing about this came across as a "business transaction". This was, based on the info presented, an agreement between friends. Both offered up a snake with the intention of a 50/50 split because that is how friends do it. Unfortunately, one party threw friendship to the side and only saw perceived monetary value. Greed is a powerful thing I guess.
Click to expand...

Well I look at it like a friend (Abby) being quite generous in putting her male Ivory with Criags normal....for a 50/50 share. (Of YB's mind you)
Since we all know that did not happen, I still see it like a friend helping out another friend.....even MORE considering it will be a Huff baby and not YB's....

I guess it's all a personal opinion.....:shrug01:

I wouldn't even feel right asking for 2 HUFFMANS out of the clutch. I am a numbers kinda girl though! Unfortunately value means everything....
 
rabernet said:
I had a breeder loan this season. My het hypo female to a POG. My friend has a small collection (compared to others), and works from home and is in her snake room all the time. She never witnessed a single copulation or mating behavior and we agreed my girl would just spend another season with her and we'd try again this coming season.

She was quite surprised to one day find that my girl was ovulating, and a POG, 2 pastel het hypos and two het hypos hatched out this summer. She said that every single time she checked on them - multiple times a day when they were together, the POG was in one corner of the enclosure and my het hypo was in a corner at the opposite end of the enclosure.

You can't KNOW with 100% certainty.
Click to expand...

I concur on this as well-- I had a breeding happen in which the snakes were together for an extremely limited period of time. I had a Oct 2008 surprise complete with a little gstripe! Not complaining but attesting to the fact that breeding doesn't take long.

Unless you have a webcam planted and review every second of footage even the most observant individual can and could miss a 'quickie'.
 
rabernet said:
I had a breeder loan this season. My het hypo female to a POG. My friend has a small collection (compared to others), and works from home and is in her snake room all the time. She never witnessed a single copulation or mating behavior and we agreed my girl would just spend another season with her and we'd try again this coming season.

She was quite surprised to one day find that my girl was ovulating, and a POG, 2 pastel het hypos and two het hypos hatched out this summer. She said that every single time she checked on them - multiple times a day when they were together, the POG was in one corner of the enclosure and my het hypo was in a corner at the opposite end of the enclosure.

You can't KNOW with 100% certainty.
Click to expand...

Kingofspades said:
Dear God people...the matter was settled 5 pages back. Is there really a need to keep it going?
Click to expand...

I have to say yes---accusations were made, and there are a lot of opinions. Some of us don't hang on the BOI and when we do pipe in it's for good reason. I happen to be 'catching up'.
 
This might be off topic, But so what you're saying is that 2 snakes, even if you have NOT seen them breed, doesn't mean that they haven't and you just missed it?
 
Kingofspades said:
Dear God people...the matter was settled 5 pages back. Is there really a need to keep it going?
Click to expand...

I only saw one party's proposed solution. The other party never expressed, on here anyway, that it was acceptable to him. Abby was willing to split this clutch with Craig until they hatched and she saw how much money she'd be giving up. Abby may be a good person to buy from, but in this case I believe she's letting money cloud her judgement.
 
I keep seeing posts referring to price, value, cost, money, etc. The agreement wasn't set up for a percentage of potential monetary value/profit. It was for a percentage of offspring... wasn't it? Whether those offspring were all morphs or were all normals, it was supposed to be a 50/50 split.

Personally, I would not spend $1k+ on an animal that (to me) doesn't look all that different from the black pastel and I don't think I'm alone in that assessment. While our collective opinion of the morph may mean diddly, it does contribute to the marketability of the snake. It would likely be easier to market yellow belly babies because there is a demand for them and no question as to whether it's a legit morph. I'm not saying that the "Huffman" isn't a legit morph, just highlighting that the status is obviously in question for a lot of people and that would adversely affect its marketability/value.
 
Bobby Douglass said:
I only saw one party's proposed solution. The other party never expressed, on here anyway, that it was acceptable to him. Abby was willing to split this clutch with Craig until they hatched and she saw how much money she'd be giving up. Abby may be a good person to buy from, but in this case I believe she's letting money cloud her judgement.
Click to expand...

Just went thrue the whole thread and I tend to agree here. Seems to me the original deal should have been enforced.
 
lauraleellbp said:
Maybe I missed it somewhere in this longish thread, but has Craig agreed to Abby's 2 snake (her pick) solution?
Click to expand...

Actually, quite some time ago, Craig stated that he would consider this resolved if Abby would give him the male Huffman she was offering AND the male yellowbelly she has posted for sale. Oddly enough, Abby has never even acknowledged that proposal....instead, she conceded to give him 2 Huffmans (or would it be Huffmen :) ). At this point, I am unsure whether she simply failed to see his offered resolution (and the multiple references to it); or if she has a problem with going that route....note that I don't assume Abby's silence on that issue to be a sign of acceptance. At this point, Craig has said what would satisfy him; and Abby has said what she is going to do - they are not the same things; and I would think that with all of Abby's objection regarding the disparity of investment (both monetary and time/effort) she would either jump on what seems to be a very reasonable offering OR explain why it isn't acceptable to her.


Now, back to old business for just a moment. Mr Hughes (twohy4you) - I have asked a few times whether your name is Craig (as Abby spells it in the title of this thread) or Criag (as you spell it in your profile). The question is NOT going to go away...if there is a reason you don't want to post your answer, you may PM me.
 
Crap...thanks Bart.
I just went back through that stuff, too - but I was looking specifically for Abby's posts.
 
Sorry about that, Craig...that was even back when I was following the thread pretty closely (so I didn't look there when I checked for an answer) :shootfoot
 
Abby said:
Contracts are a great concept but they also do not hold any water unless you actually get them legally notarized first. I had a contract years back where a woman ended up stealing the animals I loaned to her and the cops just smirked at the contract. So make sure it is notarized, otherwise you're just using a false security blanket :thumbsup:
Click to expand...

It seems that the issue, that prompted this thread, is resolved. So, I won't get into that. However, I had to comment on this (above quote).

It is absolutely untrue that a contract, which isn't notarized, will not hold any water in court.
Fact is, (without getting into all of the ins/outs, & "what ifs", in court) you do not have to have a contract notarized in order to have it hold up, or &/or "hold water", in court.
Also, contracts are used in civil matters. Law enforcement officers do not deal with civil matters.
 
Actually, come to think of it, ... has it really been resolved?
I saw where Craig stated that he would consider the matter resolved if Abby would give him one of the Huff babies and the YB that Abby has for sale.
Then, I saw where Abby stated that she would give Craig two Huff babies (of her choosing, or some other selection method, I do not know).
I have not seen where the other half, of parties involved, has agreed to either of those terms. Maybe I missed it but ... have not seen it.
 
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