• Responding to email notices you receive.
    **************************************************
    In short, DON'T! Email notices are to ONLY alert you of a reply to your private message or your ad on this site. Replying to the email just wastes your time as it goes NOWHERE, and probably pisses off the person you thought you replied to when they think you just ignored them. So instead of complaining to me about your messages not being replied to from this site via email, please READ that email notice that plainly states what you need to do in order to reply to who you are trying to converse with.

  • IMPORTANT! PLEASE READ!! About the Google Adsense ads being displayed

    =====================
    Posted 08/15/2025
    =====================


    Yeah, I know. They are a pain in the butt. But they pay the bills to keep my server running. Just a fact of life, I am afraid.

    Want to get rid of them? Simple. Just become a Contributor level member or above and they will be gone. -> Please click HERE."

    Is that too much for me to ask of you to keep this site running? Well, sorry about that. I too wish I could get everything for free. But alas.....

    =====================
    Addendum: 01/10/2026
    =====================


    Google Adsense ad revenue for December, 2025 was just $30 over the cost of the lease for the server running this site. So, in effect, the money providing the incentive for me to continue running this site is coming SOLELY from the paid memberships and sponsorships here. Which honestly ain't much....

Info Craig Hughes (twohy4you)

Abby

Abby

Goblin
Joined
Nov 24, 2004
Messages
1,577
Reaction score
149
Points
63
Age
35
Location
Xenia, Ohio 45385
Well, it sucks that it had to come to this but it looks like there is no other way. Back in March my friend loaned me a Normal female to breed to my Ivory. We agreed on splitting the clutch 50/50. The Ivory never showed interest so we ended up pairing her to my male Huffman, but didn't discuss the details (regrettably, now). I figured we are friends, we'll figure it out later. So, she ovulates and things are going smooth. Before she lays I told him I expected she would lay around 6 eggs and asked how we would split the clutch since we didn't figure the details out.

I said a friend and I had spoken and we thought 1 Huffman and some normals would be fair to give to him for his contribution of the female normal. He responded to the message, but avoided the question - I took this as him being okay with that idea (as would any one, I would think?) Here is that info.

clutch1.jpg


He never argued it, so I thought things were dandy. The female laid 5 eggs, which just hatched out about 2 weeks ago. There are 2 obvious Huffmans and 3 I am not sure on. I sent him a text saying I'd send pics of the boys so he could pick one (ONE). He never disputed that. So he picks his boy and I think things are going fine.

Fast forward to a few days ago... I tell him the baby he picked and one of the others shed and to go look at the photos. He did and asked me "what are we doing about the other 3?" to which I responded...

clutch2.jpg


and his response, and my next response (mine is the top one)

clutch3.jpg


so I get this today:

clutch4.jpg


so I say...

clutch5.jpg


and he then sends me something I said about 50/50 with the Ivory clutch, as if that is proof I agreed to 50/50 for the Huffman clutch (bottom, read up)

clutch6.jpg


more...

clutch7.jpg


Am I in the wrong here guys? I realize it is completely stupid not to get this in writing, and we should have discussed splitting the Huffman clutch before I introduced him to the female. I asked if he wanted me to try him on her but neither of us decided to re-hash the details. We are both at fault for that. I feel like an idiot, but I also feel like I am in the right in this situation, because I did ask him about splitting it and he never disputed what I said I thought was fair until long after they had hatched.

Input very welcome... Thanks guys.
 
I was the one that stated that a single Huffman would be more then fair for compensation. (Or at least one of them, I don't know how many people Abby asked)

Craig seems unreasonable to me. The original deal doesn't play in here any longer. If he were to sell the Huffman he would be 5 times further ahead of where he was if he sold the 2 YB's. IDK why hes complaining.
 
The Big Picture

While I well know many on this Forum love nothing better than the drama of "she done him wrong" or vice versa, there is more than black and white in some instances.

Should there have been a nitty-gritty details discussion? Sure - though it appears that when some questions WERE posed by the breeder, they were not answered or acknowledged by the owner of the normal female. It is recommended never to do business with friends, and this might be an example of that warning. Abby figured "friends would figure it out". I am sure she regrets that assumption now.

The fact is, there is a huge value difference between the originally-planned breeding's possible offspring, and the offspring now in dispute. In my opinion, whether or not communication lack is the case, this is a no-brainer - you don't get high-end animals as an equal to mid-range morphs. Since Craig had many chances to respond to Abby's questions about this actual clutch, and didn't do so until time to actually receive his "take", I'd say he was manipulating the situation to try to get more than he deserves.

Doesn't matter what anyone else says - this is just someone wanting more than they deserve. Happens all the time.

Kathy Weeks
 
The owner of the female agreed to a fifty fifty split. The breeder tossed in a different male without any agreement of consent of any kind. Now the owner of the female is being told they'll take one snake and like it.

Who's being greedy again? Let's put friendship bias aside guys.
 
Shadera said:
The owner of the female agreed to a fifty fifty split. The breeder tossed in a different male without any agreement of consent of any kind. Now the owner of the female is being told they'll take one snake and like it.

Who's being greedy again? Let's put friendship bias aside guys.
Click to expand...

I never agreed to 50/50 on the Huffmans, and I asked him before putting the Huffman in with the female if that was okay and he said it was. I didn't do that secretly at all, why would I? The fault comes in where we didn't discuss the details of the new deal. I realize that sucks. But I did tell him beforehand I could use the Huffman if he wanted.
 
we are both in the wrong. should have got it in writing or not switched up males to begin with. no since in trying to run each other in the ground or anything just put a question up on the fauna post asking a question about breeding loans. didn't mention her name or anything and she brought it here. not me. but we will see what happens. still think i'm entitled to my 2 snakes.
 
twohy4you said:
we are both in the wrong. should have got it in writing or not switched up males to begin with. no since in trying to run each other in the ground or anything just put a question up on the fauna post asking a question about breeding loans. didn't mention her name or anything and she brought it here. not me. but we will see what happens. still think i'm entitled to my 2 snakes.
Click to expand...

I only posted because you threatened to take it to the BOI. You threw the first stone. I never would have brought it here without that threat, I can assure you :eek:
 
I have never loaned a female, but I have loaned my males, with writen out loan agreements as to how many females they would breed.
Here is my take on it.
Say there are 3 huffmans and 2 normals.
Each keeps one huffman and one normal. The remaining huffman is to be sold and the selling price spit even between the breeders. This seems the fairest from my perspective for a 50/50 split.
I personally have never asked for animals when loaning mine. I set a straight price per clutch my animals father, no matter the egg count. They pay me that set amount per fathered clutch and sell the babies born from it. That's just my 2 cents.
 
Shadera said:
The owner of the female agreed to a fifty fifty split. The breeder tossed in a different male without any agreement of consent of any kind. Now the owner of the female is being told they'll take one snake and like it.

Who's being greedy again? Let's put friendship bias aside guys.
Click to expand...

i agree with this.
 
and obviously since it can't be a 50/50 split considering there are 5 eggs, i think 3/2 should be fine... with abby taking 3. i would be pretty pissed if i agreed to 50/50, regardless of the sire and was shorthanded... being a normal or not. i plan on borrowing a big pastel female from a friend and putting my champagne male to it....and he'll get half of the clutch, regardless of my male being with 4000$ and his female being 1000$.
 
haha I know :p Glad your snakes enjoyed those rodents lol. We can do that as far as splitting the clutch, works for me. I hope she gives us lots of girls. I think she will make some pretty YBs. Her head has a real faded look to it, I bet the babies' colors will really pop. I don't know what the YB's that produced my Ivory looked like, hopefully they are a good lookin' strain of them. He's a really nice looking Ivory though. I wish my two females I have lined up for him were ready this season, but they won't be till next... They should be huge by next season since they are both 800+ grams right now.


---------------- Original Message ----------------
From: craig
To: Abigail McDufford
Sent: 12/30/2010 4:22:31 PM
Subject: Re [6]: -- no subject --



lol, you dummy. them rats and mice already are r.i.p. glad she weighs that much. how you wanna do it? 50/50 and you get first pick or what? my allergies suck!!!!! my arms are broke out i'm coughing and my nose are running. damn rats. lol.

---------------- Original Message ----------------
From: Abigail McDufford
To: craig
Sent: 12/30/2010 3:33:49 PM
Subject: Re [5]: -- no subject --



Well, I'm such a dummy! Get home, settle her into a tub and go to take a few pics of her... Didn't wash my hands after holding the rats, she got me and wrapped me good. Took probably 5 minutes to get her off, lol. She had two of my fingers all tangled in her teeth, hurt like a bitch but I'm glad it happened - quick reminder of the rule of wash your hands before handling snakes after rodents. Just thought I'd share :p She weighs 1350 grams so I'm sure she'll be fine to breed. Real pretty head on her. It was a food bite so I threw her a large and she's constricting it now. I'll probably introduce the Ivory tonight or tomorrow.
 
twohy4you said:
we are both in the wrong. should have got it in writing or not switched up males to begin with. no since in trying to run each other in the ground or anything just put a question up on the fauna post asking a question about breeding loans. didn't mention her name or anything and she brought it here. not me. but we will see what happens. still think i'm entitled to my 2 snakes.
Click to expand...

If the Ivory never bred your female, you wouldn't have gotten anything. Just your normal back.

How does the old agreement carry over to a new snake?

You said they she cant even sell them for $1500. so why would you want 2 snakes that cant be sold at the price shes asking? what are their value to you? $150?
 
Utta said:
How does the old agreement carry over to a new snake?
Click to expand...

This is my point. The original deal was a IVORY X NORMAL clutch split 50/50. That didn't happen. So I asked on the Huffman. We did not agree to ANYTHING. I later tried to figure out the details in which he never responded. I don't know how I can make that any more clear.
 
ivory was pulled huffman put in

the ivory could of bred. the huffman was put in instead. you never know if the ivory would of bred. it was still my female. regardless of what it was bred too. 3/10/2011 was when the huffman was put in with my female. plenty of breeding season to go.
 
twohy4you said:
the ivory could of bred. the huffman was put in instead. you never know if the ivory would of bred. it was still my female. regardless of what it was bred too. 3/10/2011 was when the huffman was put in with my female. plenty of breeding season to go.
Click to expand...

If you didn't want the Huffman in there, you sure could have said to keep the Ivory in with her. You however, let the Huffman get put in with her. I don't understand how you can think the old agreement would carry over.

You never answered my questions on why you wanted 2, or how much they're worth to you.
 
@ utta

what i was saying was she was claiming there value of 1750.00 and that fact was she has had them listed here on fauna for several days for 1500.00 and they have not sold. that was it. didn't mean anything else buy it.
 
Back
Top