Info Al Brown/ Liar

[Nosonboard]

I have had the problem stated above, where I am trying to sell some of my reptiles and even though I know the source, I do not have anything proving where I got them. Documentation is key.

 

[FireStorm]

I have had the problem stated above, where I am trying to sell some of my reptiles and even though I know the source, I do not have anything proving where I got them. Documentation is key.

I don't think anyone is taking issue with the buyer wanting documentation. The problem here is that he wanted documentation, received a photo ID that wasn't as detailed as he wanted, then emailed the seller asking for more info and posted a bad guy thread without waiting for the seller to get back from vacation and send him the info.

 

[JCCS]

Why is it that all of these irrational and unreasonable people have horrible grammar and spelling? Rich, your spelling is alright, but your grammar and sentence construction is atrocious. I think it might be due to people of this mindset and having this outlook on life really can't cope with an educational environment.

Rich, get over it. You came here whining about something extremely petty. You were given more than adequate verification on that animal. I think you're probably just angling for getting a bit of money back on that animal or something. You haven't mentioned it, but I think that might be where you were headed.

As soon as you were disagreed with, you start trying to pick a fight with Diem for some reason. I have no idea why people of questionable mental faculties keep wanting to call her out, but good luck with that.

Maybe it's time to look for a new hobby if you don't think that anyone in this hobby is doing anything right. I know you want your quick buck, but if you're unhappy here, you could look for it somewhere else. I doubt that anyone that's read this thread would shed a tear.

I also wonder, could you provide the lineage papers that you sent with that het albino female that you sold recently? I'd just like to know what you consider proper paperwork, and I'm sure you could provide that easily as an example.

Chris

 

[Jesse Van Atta]

I know Al on a personal and professional level. He is one of the good guys.

Your request was unreasonable. He did what he could. Your calling him a liar makes you the bad guy in my book. At minimal you owe him an apology. It will be a small consolation for the bridges you have burned for vehemently jumping the gun. And you have burned more than you know.

How much proof of lineage is enough seems like a discussion forum topic. Keeping it here is not doing Al any favors. This thread should be left to the archives. Any one wanting to know about Al, will find this in a search and can make up their own mind about him.

 

[Chris Kennard]

I can understand where you, being involved with the purchase, might not be able to open your mind to the fact it was a simple case of miscommunication. But we're outsiders to the transaction, and we're not blinded by our disappointment in how things went. Maybe instead of pounding your fist on the desk insisting he lied to you and is a bad guy, you ought to sit back and open your mind to what others are saying.

Nobody here thinks Al is a god. But the fact is, he's been selling for a while, no problems or complaints, and then you come along with "he's a liar" like a scolded 12-13 yr old kid. Your lack of patience does not make him a bad guy in our eyes. In fact, it's been voiced already that your unreasonable attitude in this matter, your refusal to look on the other side of the fence, makes you look worse then him.

"The human mind, much like a parachute, works a lot better when it's open"

Or maybe you guys could open your minds to what the OP is saying. If the OP "opens his mind to what others are saying" here, he will turn into a mindless zombie/wannabe/bandwagon jumper. His "unreasonable attitude" has been voiced by a fraction of onlookers who I would hardly consider the majority of people you may support your opinion. Lastly, please don't attempt to speak for what you consider the important masses with comments like "your refusal to look on the other side of the fence, makes you look worse then him". You would be suprised at how few people you "speak" for.

 

[JCCS]

Chris, ok, you win. I'm opening my mind. What is the other side of the fence. What does he want that Al didn't adequately provide?

Chris

 

[Chris Kennard]

Chris, ok, you win. I'm opening my mind. What is the other side of the fence. What does he want that Al didn't adequately provide?

Chris

Wrong! I don't win. This isn't about me or you winning. This is about someone who didn't get what he wanted and reaching out to a bunch of egotists who think they are the popular majority, thus abusing the passive agressive BS manipulations that this forum has caressed. You judge, make condescending statements, then say..."huh whu, me? buh buh, everybody else says he's wrong, even the regular hotshots here, so it must be true." WRONG! Your posts were probably the most condescending here, but not by much. To answer your question hotshot, a friggin' picture of snakes labled as whatever, for the money spent, isn't worth squat! Background info with a signiture would be a good start. I'm just shocked that noone has asked the OP for a copy of his birth certificate or his social security number.

 

[crotalusadamanteus]

He ain't gonna answer you Chris. He just popped in to hump my leg for a while.

 

[Chris Kennard]

He ain't gonna answer you Chris. He just popped in to hump my leg for a while.

I'm glad you posted this. Enough said. By the way, nobody uses the word "ain't" anymore, unless they forgot how to spell isn't. Duh!

 

[JCCS]

As much as this might be talking to a wall, here we go. Go and look at the paperwork that was sent, Chris. All of the pertinent information was there. If he just wanted a signature, I'm sure he could have stayed calm and asked Al for one once he got back from his vacation. Instead, he freaked out and came on here looking for everyone to be outraged that he was given only awesome paperwork, but not a signature.

Chris, you just seem to want to be combative. That's your prerogative, if you wish. I've bought plenty of hets that didn't come without paperwork, because I trusted the person that I bought them from. If I don't trust someone, I'm not buying a pet rock from them. I haven't been burned on a het yet. Let's face it, if Al or anyone else for that matter was going to rip someone off, they'd probably try it on an animal priced higher than $250, where the non-het version is worth $175. He's not going to lose his reputation over $75, it's just not financially sound.

Chris

 

[reticguy76]

im still waiting for someone to answer my question, who the hell asks for definite lineage from any animal beyond the parents in the snake world. that is the craziest thing i have ever heard.
maybe if the seller has or has had questionable practices and sales in the past and has become public, that could be one thing, but this seller is well known and respected

yet another post where, if the majority says the op was out of line posting this thread, maybe that says something.

this is an internet forum, some degree of judgement has to be assessed. also, the world is full of judgements by people, its the way the world works. people judge, people get judged. welcome to life

 

[deborahbroadus]

Wow! It doesn't seem like history has taught some of us much.

It doesn't matter how many "friends and good customers" come to the seller's defense. This is a dissatisfied customer. Granted the buyer's timing is suspect, however; he does have a basis for his claim (imo) because the paper (that was sent to denote linage) is (obviously, given how many people are defending that "slip" of information as "good enough") not containing enough information to be considered an acceptable amount of information to be considered as lineage (which is what the buyer requested.)

If more people had said, that the amount of information on the paper (or words to that effect) was better or as good as most then the OP may have no grievance.

***I hope this makes sense..

 

[deborahbroadus]

amount of information NEEDED to be considered as lineage (which is what the buyer requested.)

dang...a mistake.... correction noted in bold.

 

[reticguy76]

i agree to a point on that. however, its not considered the norm to ask for anything beyond the parents for genetics and lineage, at least in the snake world that i know.

my interpretation of this whole thread is pretty much the amount of time (or lack there of) that was given by the op to the seller (although on lineage paperwork that most generally do not have, meaning beyone the parents of said animal)

 

[Jesse Van Atta]

He got what he needed, just not what he wanted.

Some of the people, some of the time..... but you can not please everyone all of the time. Al just ended up being the lucky seller to the absurdly needy customer, which obviously, could not be pleased.

 

[deborahbroadus]

i agree to a point on that. however, its not considered the norm to ask for anything beyond the parents for genetics and lineage, at least in the snake world that i know.

my interpretation of this whole thread is pretty much the amount of time (or lack there of) that was given by the op to the seller (although on lineage paperwork that most generally do not have, meaning beyone the parents of said animal)

That is true of how many breeders usually send and receive lineage papers, however; the customer does not think that our way is satisfactory, and this issue is a very SMALL matter (imo) that can be settled with, not our opinions (guilty) but paper, printer and ink on the seller's part (not an unreasonable request given that WE (breeders) normally accept this kind of documentation, but the BUYER does not.....no?

 

[Chris Kennard]

As much as this might be talking to a wall, here we go. Go and look at the paperwork that was sent, Chris. All of the pertinent information was there. If he just wanted a signature, I'm sure he could have stayed calm and asked Al for one once he got back from his vacation. Instead, he freaked out and came on here looking for everyone to be outraged that he was given only awesome paperwork, but not a signature.

Chris, you just seem to want to be combative. That's your prerogative, if you wish. I've bought plenty of hets that didn't come without paperwork, because I trusted the person that I bought them from. If I don't trust someone, I'm not buying a pet rock from them. I haven't been burned on a het yet. Let's face it, if Al or anyone else for that matter was going to rip someone off, they'd probably try it on an animal priced higher than $250, where the non-het version is worth $175. He's not going to lose his reputation over $75, it's just not financially sound.

Chris

Alright James. We'll have to agree to disagree. I'm no stranger to being called "combative" or "troll" or whatever here merely for disagreeing with the so called, self proclaimed, and often misguided masses here. Call me in a few years, maybe even ten years, and let me know if your statement... "Let's face it, if Al or anyone else for that matter was going to rip someone off, they'd probably try it on an animal priced higher than $250, where the non-het version is worth $175. He's not going to lose his reputation over $75, it's just not financially sound."... holds any water. I have a feeling that your experiences between now and then will change drastically. I'd put money on it. By the way, before one of the speech/grammar police here bust your balls, I understand what you meant even though you misworded it..."I've bought plenty of hets that didn't come without paperwork". Lastly, crooks would be happy to screw you for $2000 or $20. You'll see.

 

[deborahbroadus]

He got what he needed, just not what he wanted.

Some of the people, some of the time..... but you can not please everyone all of the time. Al just ended up being the lucky seller to the absurdly needy customer, which obviously, could not be pleased.

He didn't get what he ASKED for. He asked for LINEAGE papers. WE ALL (or most) agree that LINEAGE is more than listing the first set of parents.

 

[radera5]

That is true of how many breeders usually send and receive lineage papers, however; the customer does not think that our way is satisfactory, and this issue is a very SMALL matter (imo) that can be settled with, not our opinions (guilty) but paper, printer and ink on the seller's part (not an unreasonable request given that WE (breeders) normally accept this kind of documentation, but the BUYER does not.....no?

I completely agree with this.
People can say all they want about the OP being unreasonable. But the fact is he is asking for something that is/should be easy to do. So to me, he actually seems very reasonable.

I get that the title here is a bit rough, and maybe he didn't wait as long as many of us would have. I also get the the seller seems to be known and respected....it's just that none of that really matters. Pleasing your customer is what matters. (Especially considering what it would take to please him....not much)

I have had customers freak out on me for re-using a box for shipping. Not a beat up and unsafe box but a perfectly fine, I would be wasting if I threw it away box....That is what I call unreasonable! (Amongst many other things)

I have said it earlier in this thread, I think the seller can, should, and probably will fix this. I am guessing it was an honest mistake. Regardless of what WE all think is right or wrong, the fact remains that the OP didn't receive what he thought h should have.

Good luck to all involved. This seems like an easy fix to me.

 

[reticguy76]

then i would think if he doesnt like the way things are "normally" done with genetics, lineage and the paperwork, he will not do well and thrive in this hobby/business.

its great to want and request information, i respect that. however, what is questioned in my mind is the type of info he wants. i am no way a big breeder. i have bred some retics, some burms, a couple boa litters, even a cornsnake clutch (along with a few various other animals), however i dont consider myself a BREEDER. i have bred and sold animals, and i have bought animals. never once have i requested, or been requested to provide lineage paperwork beyone the parents, and what paperwork i have dealt with, have been done with in a normal timely fashion.

also, i respect the op for bringing this to the public for thoughts and responses. that being said, i think a bad guy title was way out of line and premaure, as opposed, to say, an inquiry or something along those lines. those big red x's stick around and thats what a lot of people see when they do searches, not all read through these threads, that turn out not to warrant the big red x