Info Al Brown/ Liar

[reticguy76]

i, unfortunately, get all that, that it wont stand up in court (which is sad that it comes to that all too quickly and definitively these days). i have bought and/or traded for hets before and not had them prove out. in my eyes, its part of the HOBBY (as thats what i view this as, purely hobby). i understand it for the people that are in this for the business aspect of reptiles. a couple hets that didnt prove out for me (by word of mouth), was too bad for me, and i have never, nor will ever purchase from them again. that is how i personally deal in this hobby.
it is his timing that makes this thread unwarranted. i (and i think most) do not have an issue with what he wanted. but, unless im missing something, he got a verbal to suffice him until the seller could get home, as mentioned. as richard stated, between when he was told that by al and the post here, was not ample.

 

[reptilebaby]

I didn't get the papers with my het orange ghost balls, but the breeder's sending them with the vanilla and black back boys when they're ready. Then again, I know for a fact I can trust her.
I don't think I would trust anyone unless I had papers guaranteeing that a snake is indeed what it is supposed to be...
If Rich feels he was lied to, it would be nice if Al would go ahead and send a signed lineage paper. He could just write on it which snakes were the ones that went into the production of this snake.

Ordinarily I would be ok with what he did get, BUT Al knew what was wanted, and it should have at least been included with the photo ID. He was able to get that info, wasn't he? and that info would've had to come from the same place that the lineage info would have come from, right?
I'm confused by all this!

 

[reticguy76]

no one is arguing what he wanted, its the time from in which he got a response from al that he would handle it when he got back and when the op posted this
at least in my eyes, that is the big/main issue

 

[Chris Kennard]

Did you really derive all that from my post? I'd like to know this agenda you speak of too. Perhaps you could school me. And, esteemed member? LOL That's rich. I do a lot more reading then posting in the BOI. Oh, and I addressed you as Mr. Kennard did I not? The y'all, should have read "all y'all", since I was referring to more then one person.

Twist it however you like. Maybe you need to go back and read it again. I read it and comprehended it just fine the first time. Al said he'd get back to him on the 31st when he returned from vacation. What's the date and time on the start of this thread? Not even 6 AM on the 31st according to what I see. What, was Al supposed to leave earlier then planned, drive all night to be home by 3 AM, and rush in to make sure the paperwork was sent, so the buyer wouldn't have to wait past his first cup of coffee?

Yeah, he showed all kinds of patience.

Let me try a different logic, although I think it was asked once already...Was it EVER discussed, just EXACTLY what "lineage paperwork" consisted of? Did the purchaser ever say to Al, "this is what I am looking for in the paperwork"? Did the buyer even ask Al what he meant by lineage paperwork? Did Al promise "I'll send paperwork on the lineage as far back as the first imports"?

I really don't feel like I'm the one who's seeing things in a twisted frame of mind. I see it as just what I stated. Miscommunication, perhaps on both ends, and some impatience on the OP's part.

I've "twistied" nothing. You are beyond being "schooled". What Al agreed to send when he got back was more pics. Again, read the thread. He originally agreed to send two things. He sent one. And speaking of twisting things, I don't recall ever saying you saw things with a twisted frame of mind. Just because I disagree with you, doesn't mean I'm twisting anything. If that's the defense mechanism you want to run with, so be it. All the melodramatics in the world won't make your judgement seem any more or less valid than mine. I'll guess we'll just have to agree to disagree, yes?

 

[reptilebaby]

I wouldn't think that PICS of all the snakes that went into the making of HIS boa would be necessary, but if he'd like to know each morph or morph het that WAS possible to be traced that went into the creation of his snake, that shouldn't be a problem, if Al knows it-and from one of the posted messages, he does in fact know a few generations of them.

I know that I would like to do it like that when I start producing them. Actually have each generation that goes into the breeding written down, even if just for my own records. Who knows, if people start doing that, that could become the normal thing to do!

 

[reticguy76]

i agree, having good lineage would be a good thing (its just not the norm at this time and still seems odd to want that to me, at this time, but i respect wanting it and think it would be good to implement in this hobby), however, a little more chillaxin (as the kids today say) would have been easy on all involved, and a little patience, since at least it was relayed verbally, there was something there to hold over until al could get situated and deal with the "written" lineage proof.

 

[reticguy76]

to all the grammar people out there, i apologize for my run-on sentence(s) above

 

[Designerboa]

Your approach to the entire ordeal is a red flag to any seller. Who would want to thrown under your bus? 17 pages worth of a thread calling liar over WHAT? If I were Al, I jwould be thinking slander and defamation of character. Liar is a strong word.

My suggestion is to apologize publicly, and maybe he will provide what you are asking for. I personally would be done with you, as you truly have all that you need... just not what you wanted.

Your right Jesse.....BAD BUYER.......crossed off my sell to list. Maybe we should start a Bad Buyer thread about him.....

Oh that won't be necessary. Rich has damaged his own reputation by posting this libelous thread.......I hope he is happy with the animals he has because any breeder of substance will never sell to him.

This unwarranted thread should be removed toot sweet IMO

 

[deborahbroadus]

Attempting to neutralize the post by flooding it with positives for Al and negatives for the buyer is futile, imo.

Readers/buyers/sellers do have the ability to distinguish between FACT posts and opinions/feelings/friendship with the seller posts.

I've been in the same position as the buyer before, but I didn't make a post; I've also been in the same position as a seller...customer service is NO JOKE. If all it takes is a piece of paper to satisfy a customer that's already asked once or twice...expecting the customer to wait till one gets back from a vacation is a bit ridiculous...again, imo. From the buyer standpoint, he couldn't KNOW for a fact whether ANY of the excuses that he was given were true.

 

[allreptiles1966]

My last post on this.
Thank you to all who did get that i had asked several times before posting!!
Jesse,read again dude.Your comp is off a bit.
SKIP THE LAST TIME i asked Jesse--what about the first 2 times man.How many times should i have to ask a "PROFESSIONAL" for something he said he'd send?3,4 5 times?Be real and not just sticking up for Al!He did this to himself.
If you think Al was right in his transaction-you dont have to worry about me buying from you(jesse)-you put yourself on the red list to me.I try to buy from GOOD guys!
I dont know how many timews i have to say it-- Al promised and didnt deliver-Whats that called?? Title above!

 

[Jesse Van Atta]

Attempting to neutralize the post by flooding it with positives for Al and negatives for the buyer is futile, imo.

Readers/buyers/sellers do have the ability to distinguish between FACT posts and opinions/feelings/friendship with the seller posts.

I've been in the same position as the buyer before, but I didn't make a post; I've also been in the same position as a seller...customer service is NO JOKE. If all it takes is a piece of paper to satisfy a customer that's already asked once or twice...expecting the customer to wait till one gets back from a vacation is a bit ridiculous...again, imo. From the buyer standpoint, he couldn't KNOW for a fact whether ANY of the excuses that he was given were true.

Futile is trying to reason with unreasonable people. You did not post in your situation because you knew better. If he was unhappy with his snake or had ANY thought that it was not what he was told, he should have packed it right back up and sent it back.

This thread is full of opinions. Mine is that this thread was absolutely unwarranted. He plans on keeping that snake to breed someday and sell the offspring. How long will that take? Al is not going anywhere.

The man was verbally given the lineage, and he believed it. Al slipped and forgot the photo ID, which he provided ASAP. This was not what Rich wanted. When it was received by the OP, Al was on vacation, and promised to get it to him, once again ASAP. Like you said, it was just a piece of paper. Instead, first morning home he wakes up to this.

What was the total time frame of purchase to now, Rich? Oh yeah, you said you were done. I hope so. I know the answer anyway.

BTW Do your research. I am a good guy, sticking up for another one. You on the other hand.....

Need to learn some patience. Good luck with what you've got so far. I have a feeling buying boas from reputable breeders may start proving difficult if you keep actions like these up. Best wishes to you, and your sweet jungle from Al.

 

[Lucille]

.expecting the customer to wait till one gets back from a vacation

Deborah, when you post, it's always well though out and makes sense. I'm puzzled about the timing here, though. The buyer did in fact wait until the morning the seller was returning. Had this customer waited just until the next day, I don't think this thread would have the differences that it obviously does.

I understand and agree with the customer-centric approach to selling, by the way.

 

[radera5]

Deborah, when you post, it's always well though out and makes sense. I'm puzzled about the timing here, though. The buyer did in fact wait until the morning the seller was returning. Had this customer waited just until the next day, I don't think this thread would have the differences that it obviously does.

I understand and agree with the customer-centric approach to selling, by the way.

IMO the problem here is people bickering about different issues. People keep bringing up the timing and saying he should have waited to start this thread, when others are saying that when you get to the third time asking for the same thing, from a "reputable breeder", that is the problem.

IMO timing doesn't really matter to the OP here, he is upset he didn't get what he clearly asked for the first two times......from a "reputable breeder".

I know I tend to get frustrated when I have to ask ANYone for the same thing 3 times.

 

[Lucille]

IMO the problem here is people bickering

You are welcome to your opinion. I do not share it.

 

[radera5]

You are welcome to your opinion. I do not share it.

Way to quote part of a sentence..
I am beginning to understand WHY you don't share it.

Considering the OP said he is finished here, I guess I can happily leave this alone as well. We can all agree to disagree..., or not. Either way.

 

[deborahbroadus]

Deborah, when you post, it's always well though out and makes sense. I'm puzzled about the timing here, though. The buyer did in fact wait until the morning the seller was returning. Had this customer waited just until the next day, I don't think this thread would have the differences that it obviously does.

I understand and agree with the customer-centric approach to selling, by the way.

Lucille, I usually give people two times to "fool" me, there is not a third. Some of us seem to be asking the buyer to TRUST someone that he probably doesn't know personally. It seems that some are asking that the buyer simply BELIEVE the seller (after the seller has failed TWICE to send what was apparently understood from the beginning).

For all the buyer could know, AL wasn't even on vacation. I hope my reasoning makes sense now. I believe no one's word without evidence unless they are very good friends (which seems to be the point that his friends/acquaintances posts are coming from), It seems unreasonable to ME that anyone should expect the buyer to simply believe AFTER being "lied" to twice. Someone making excuses to me twice, would have ME trying to get my task accomplished, too and I probably wouldn't be in the mood to listen to the third excuse.

 

[JudyC]

Lucille, I usually give people two times to "fool" me, there is not a third. Some of us seem to be asking the buyer to TRUST someone that he probably doesn't know personally. It seems that some are asking that the buyer simply BELIEVE the seller (after the seller has failed TWICE to send what was apparently understood from the beginning).

For all the buyer could know, AL wasn't even on vacation. I hope my reasoning makes sense now. I believe no one's word without evidence unless they are very good friends (which seems to be the point that his friends/acquaintances posts are coming from), It seems unreasonable to ME that anyone should expect the buyer to simply believe AFTER being "lied" to twice. Someone making excuses to me twice, would have ME trying to get my task accomplished, too and I probably wouldn't be in the mood to listen to the third excuse.

I think the point that most people are trying to make now (at least, the point that I think should be made) is that the buyer would be in a much stronger position if he'd simply waited one more full day.

It's not a matter of "Shame on you for not trusting Al"....it's a matter of "You could have PROVEN Al was lying if you'd waited one day...instead, you made yourself look impatient and petty."

I agree completely with the points that if he'd gotten what was asked for the first two times it should have come, then he'd never have found himself in that position to begin with...and I do think that's on Al. I don't know what "lineage papers" are or what they were supposed to look like, but it's clear SOMETHING was discussed between the two of them and the buyer had a reasonable expectation of receiving them. But when he made his third demand and the seller says, "I'm on vacation, wait until xx date and I'll get that to you".....his story here would have been MUCH more compelling if he'd actually waited and given the seller a chance to keep his word...or not to keep it.

After that much time had passed already, what's one more day in order to prove your point?

 

[deborahbroadus]

I think the point that most people are trying to make now (at least, the point that I think should be made) is that the buyer would be in a much stronger position if he'd simply waited one more full day.

It's not a matter of "Shame on you for not trusting Al"....it's a matter of "You could have PROVEN Al was lying if you'd waited one day...instead, you made yourself look impatient and petty."

I agree completely with the points that if he'd gotten what was asked for the first two times it should have come, then he'd never have found himself in that position to begin with...and I do think that's on Al. I don't know what "lineage papers" are or what they were supposed to look like, but it's clear SOMETHING was discussed between the two of them and the buyer had a reasonable expectation of receiving them. But when he made his third demand and the seller says, "I'm on vacation, wait until xx date and I'll get that to you".....his story here would have been MUCH more compelling if he'd actually waited and given the seller a chance to keep his word...or not to keep it.

After that much time had passed already, what's one more day in order to prove your point?

That is one way of looking at it. Tell it to the people/victims on the BOI that waited for years to post and still got bashed. It (the timing) doesn't matter (imo). The OP was a customer, expecting something that he didn't get in a reasonable amount of time. Timing and someone's vacation isn't his and wouldn't be mine (in this instance).

BUT, I agree that it would have LOOKED better if he had waited one more day. But then someone probably would have offered a post stating that the buyer/he should have waited a week... (just to let AL have a chance to readjust...) How much time is too much time, and how much time is too little is not a bone of contention because there's no regulation.

Ethically/and customer service-wise, the buyer requested an item, the seller confirmed he could do it, and then waffled TWICE, before the post.

 

[deborahbroadus]

That is one way of looking at it. Tell it to the people/victims on the BOI that waited for years to post and still got bashed. It (the timing) doesn't matter (imo). The OP was a customer, expecting something that he didn't get in a reasonable amount of time. Timing and someone's vacation isn't his PRIORITY and wouldn't be mine (in this instance).

BUT, I agree that it would have LOOKED better if he had waited one more day. But then someone probably would have offered a post stating that the buyer/he should have waited a week... (just to let AL have a chance to readjust...) How much time is too much time, and how much time is too little is not a bone of contention because there's no regulation.

Ethically/and customer service-wise, the buyer requested an item, the seller confirmed he could do it, and then waffled TWICE, before the post.

*Correction bolded.

 

[deborahbroadus]

Futile is trying to reason with unreasonable people. You did not post in your situation because you knew better. If he was unhappy with his snake or had ANY thought that it was not what he was told, he should have packed it right back up and sent it back.

This thread is full of opinions. Mine is that this thread was absolutely unwarranted. He plans on keeping that snake to breed someday and sell the offspring. How long will that take? Al is not going anywhere.

The man was verbally given the lineage, and he believed it. Al slipped and forgot the photo ID, which he provided ASAP. This was not what Rich wanted. When it was received by the OP, Al was on vacation, and promised to get it to him, once again ASAP. Like you said, it was just a piece of paper. Instead, first morning home he wakes up to this.

What was the total time frame of purchase to now, Rich? Oh yeah, you said you were done. I hope so. I know the answer anyway.

BTW Do your research. I am a good guy, sticking up for another one. You on the other hand.....

Need to learn some patience. Good luck with what you've got so far. I have a feeling buying boas from reputable breeders may start proving difficult if you keep actions like these up. Best wishes to you, and your sweet jungle from Al.

The OP/CUSTOMER did not state that he was unhappy with the snakes. A deal was made and not fully completed in a "reasonable" amount of time. It's not like the customer asked twice in a day.