Bad Guy Reptile Addicts / Fred Kick

[liquidleaf]

If you pursue a small claims suit, the Kicks' businesses are located in Niagara County in New York State, so perhaps you'd want to start by contacting that county's small claims court system.

Please do take note of all the other BOI postings. Regardless of if the animal was in their possession very long, they have had issues with NY State DEC and the SPCA in the past regarding poor husbandry. One would hope they cleaned up their game since those events, but what you've mentioned makes it sound unlikely.

Good luck pursuing your case. If you file your claim in Niagara County, you may need to show up in person. I'm not sure, but perhaps you might also be able to file in the county of the reptile show you purchased at, contact that court to see.

 

[alessia55]

Update. New e-mails since the last ones I posted in my original post:

November 19, 2011. I re-send my e-mail of November 18, 2011 along with all the vet records attached, just in case, since he has claimed in the past that he hasn't received some e-mails I've sent.

Hi Fred,
Just in case, I'm sending this again. See the e-mail below and the attached documents. Please confirm you've received it.
Alessia Bachrach

November 21, 2011. Fred responds:
Sorry for not responding I was out of town.I am sorry about your loss, she was a captive born animal. I can't imagine what the problem was or who would have been responsible. Let me know what show you are attending next and I will give you a $100 credit, which is what you paid for the rosy boa, as long as you verify that you have been compensated in full as per my show policies. You hand picked this boa out, I did not purposely send you any animal with problems. Again you saw it, asked questions, held and looked at her. She has been eating once a week prior to your picking her out. Some animals do not adjust well to new conditions, what ever her conditions were under your care. Once they leave our facility they are out of our control. I offered multiple times for you to bring her back and receive a refund. Get back to me as soon as possible, so we can take care of this situation.

Again sorry for your loss.
Fred

November 22, 2011. I write to Fred:
Hi Fred
Thanks for getting back to me. When I bought the rosy boa at the show, I did notice that she had retained eye caps, but I never would have imagined she has as many as the vet managed to pull off. I also noticed that she was opening her mouth when I held her, but the woman who sold her to me (long grey hair) assured me it was normal behavior and that maybe she was just stretching her jaws. I was reassured that the animal was healthy and in good conditions. Unfortunately, that is not what turned out to be the case.
I'm not sure what you mean when you say "credit." By "credit" do you mean store credit to use at a later time to buy another animal from you?
Alessia Bachrach

November 28, 2011. Fred has not gotten back to me, so I re-send the above e-mail with this message.

Hi Fred
Below you will see the e-mail I sent to you on Nov. 22nd.
Thanks
Alessia Bachrach

November 29, 2011. Fred responds:
Once the problem is solved I can issue you a credit at the next show. What ever show you plan on going to, if you don't plan on attending shows give us a call and we can ship something, but the shipping would be at your cost.

Note: I'm not sure what he means by "once the problem is solved." I've told him several times how to solve the problem: refund me my money; yet the problem persists.

November 29, 2011. I reply to Fred:
Hi Fred,
As I mentioned in a previous e-mail, I would not be interested in store credit. I would only be interested in a cash refund. As I had also mentioned earlier, if you decline to give me a refund (which I think both you and I know is the least I deserve after all this grief), then I will be moved to settle this in small claims court, in which I will claim the refund and the vet costs. Again, I would prefer to settle this once and for all, and in an easier manner, if you finally agree on the original $100 cash refund. This is the last time I'm going to urge you to right this situation the easier (and cheaper!) way, and this whole thing will be over. I have been plenty patient up until now, considering what I've had to go through. I hope to hear from you again soon.
Alessia Bachrach

To conclude:
This is the last chance I'm giving him to own up and take the easy route. If I do not hear from him in a week, I will begin taking real action to file a small claims court suit. Unfortunately, I will be going home in about 10 days for Winter Break (I'm a college student at a different state than home), and part of my Winter Break will be spent abroad. For this reason, I may have to wait until January to go to court, since I would not be available otherwise. This small delay would not affect the claim since one has up to 2 years to file a small claims suit. Just wanted to give you all an update!

Alessia Bachrach

 

[Serpents Lair]

Please keep us notified of the outcome. I recently purchased something from him online and am worried about it now. I receive them this week... Shoulda checked the BOI before making my purchase. I hope you get your refund.

 

[alessia55]

Update. New e-mail exchanges since my last post.

December 4, 2011. This is Fred Kick's response to the last e-mail I sent him (see previous post).
First of all I do not remember you, second of all I was being gracious seeing as you only emailed me vet receipts, no paperwork. Do you have a receipt? I never had that emailed to me. I offered you a full refund with absolutely no proof from you, as a good will gesture. I am very sorry for your problem, I do not have a cash back policy. If you read through other breeders/sellers policies you will find they have absolutely no cash back guarantees. So i am going over and above offering you a credit of $100 with absolutely no proof from you. The facts here are you have given me no information, I looked at your vet receipts and they said vet check, there is no information or problem on the animal. You also have not provided me any pictures. I urge you to reconsider my fair offer of a 100% refund in credit, since that is more than fair considering the circumstances and your lack of proof.

December 5, 2011. My response. I attached the vet records to the e-mail AGAIN, along with 2 photos of the snake.
Hi Fred,
The paperwork I sent you are not receipts. They are official records of what the vet saw on the snake. I have attached them again for you to see them again. The paperwork of October 31st mentions the several retained eye caps and the internal parasites. The paperwork of November 4th mentions even more retained eye caps that were removed, and they were taped to the paper (the two circles below the text). The paperwork of November 18th mentions the chronic seizures and the euthanasia of the snake, as well as that the body has been sent to a lab to isolate whichever virus might've been causing all the problems. The vet summary sheet mentions the stargazing behavior, retained eye caps, neurological symptoms, and the medication given to the snake. This is the third time I'll have sent you these records. I have also attached photos of the day I purchased the snake, since you requested them.
The refund policy was not made clear to me when I purchased the snake. I was not told that there was a credit refund policy only. Contrary to what you claimed in your pervious e-mail, I have given you lots of information, most of which I have repeated multiple times in our e-mail exchanges. I have kept in touch since I purchased the snake, and have been giving you updates almost weekly of the snake's conditions.
Alessia Bachrach

Conclusion
I am still waiting for the results of the lab where I sent the snake's body to be examined for virus isolation and disease. When I have those results, I will post them.
I'm utterly confused as to why he claims I have sent him no information or "proof." I have sent him the vet records multiple times now. He also has a whole history of e-mail exchanges to look back on in which I give him weekly updates on the condition of the snake. His lack of desire to settle things calmly is disturbing. His e-mail replies are often mind-boggling in this regard.
I am going home for Winter Break, but will file a small claims court case upon my return in January. I really wanted to avoid going to court- it's time consuming and stressful for everyone involved. But I refuse to be yet another person he scams and gets away with it. Even if I don't win the case, at least I'll have tried. I'm currently trying to figure out which court to file it with, since Fred Kick and I are located in different states.

-Alessia Bachrach

 

[ajakana]

Fred is no good

I had a similar experience with fred kick 3 years ago,mine is sort of different. So 3 years ago i purchased a female pastel ball python from fred,when i received her i knew she was definitely a super pastel because of the distinct coloring super pastels have. First i would also like to say that fred does not know the morphs or type of animals he sells. He is too busy slapping ridiculous prices trying to make a quick buck,To make a long story short i demanded a refund from fred and he told me the same thing about store credit,i did not want to risk getting another sick snake from him, so i went and opened up a dispute with my credit card since i made the transaction through paypal. He never refunded me my money,a little tip it is manditory the seller refunds your money if they sell you an item that is damaged,not the correct product etc..., So the policy about no refund is BS whether he likes it or not it still applies.

By the way the snake i bought from him cost $700 that he mislabeled,i too went back and forth emailing him asking him why my snake was sickly,the snake was in a daze,would not eat,shribbled up and got really skinny. I also took mine to the vet got antibiotics,and she also gave me an appetite stimulant to try and get the snake to eat. After i left and came back home the next day i tried giving her the appetite stimulant since she really needed it,i gave that to her along with the antibiotics. She got worse and within 3-4 days she threw up another snake then died,i literally took the dead snake back to the vet with what she threw up so it could be confirmed. And it was confirmed just as i suspected,even though i never got my money back and it has been years,i wanted to share my experience.

 

[JudyC]

I had a similar experience with fred kick 3 years ago,mine is sort of different. So 3 years ago i purchased a female pastel ball python from fred,when i received her i knew she was definitely a super pastel because of the distinct coloring super pastels have. First i would also like to say that fred does not know the morphs or type of animals he sells. He is too busy slapping ridiculous prices trying to make a quick buck,To make a long story short i demanded a refund from fred and he told me the same thing about store credit,i did not want to risk getting another sick snake from him, so i went and opened up a dispute with my credit card since i made the transaction through paypal. He never refunded me my money,a little tip it is manditory the seller refunds your money if they sell you an item that is damaged,not the correct product etc..., So the policy about no refund is BS whether he likes it or not it still applies.

By the way the snake i bought from him cost $700 that he mislabeled,i too went back and forth emailing him asking him why my snake was sickly,the snake was in a daze,would not eat,shribbled up and got really skinny. I also took mine to the vet got antibiotics,and she also gave me an appetite stimulant to try and get the snake to eat. After i left and came back home the next day i tried giving her the appetite stimulant since she really needed it,i gave that to her along with the antibiotics. She got worse and within 3-4 days she threw up another snake then died,i literally took the dead snake back to the vet with what she threw up so it could be confirmed. And it was confirmed just as i suspected,even though i never got my money back and it has been years,i wanted to share my experience.

Maybe you shouldn't make your long story short, because you seem to have left out an awful lot of important details. Nothing you said here makes any sense. I'm no defender of Fred Kick, by any stretch, but if someone is going to make accusations, they should at least make sense.

So...here's what I got from what you wrote. Please feel free to fill in the missing details...

You paid $700 for a pastel. (What year was this?!?) But you received a super pastel. For some reason, receiving a super made you angry and you demanded your money back?

He refused a refund and offered "store credit" instead. Ok. That part makes sense. Just not why you wanted a refund in the first place.

And then the snake is sick? Wasting away? But when administered an appetite stimulant is THROWS UP ANOTHER SNAKE? Did I read that right?

 

[Serpents Lair]

Yeh, no part of that made sense. Anyone would be THRILLED to rather receive a SUPER pastel than a pastel. And with the time line giving this snake time to "waste away" that would take far too long for any snake to later regurge another snake. Not buying it.

Meanwhile I want to update MY experience with Fred Kick. I posted somewhere in here that I was worried because I recently made a purchase before reading the fauna BOI on him. But that I would let people know my outcome. I purchased a PAIR of HET G Stripes from him, for a bargain at $100 for the pair. Guaranteed 100% Hets. I got the breeding records and all with my shipment. The package came perfectly packaged. Correct heat pack provided. Everything looked great. The snakes have been eating, and healthy. No mites, illness, or anything seemingly wrong. I've had them through 4 meals now. No issues. He was fast to respond to any questions and I was very happy. I will be doing business again with him personally. If any future issues arise I will be sure to post. But as of now, I have nothing but good to say about my personal transaction with him.

 

[redarms]

my experiences

I'm not trying to bash this guy or anything, just letting you know my experiences. I know a company that has lots of animals to take care of, sometimes some, one or groups get sick. Its just the byproduct of having too many members of the same spiecies in the same place. One animal may carry something and be virtually immune and can pass to another animal and could be fatal. Theres my little disclaimer.

Now, I personally have purchased a female orange ghost, and a female black pastel het ghost at different times, granted. They both ate right out of the box, really. I was satisfied with that. A few days (I didnt' record how many) after recieving, they BOTH poo'd some kind of slimy green sludge along with strange runny sludgy fecal matter. These animals were purchased a few months apart also. The first shed they both went into was a dry shed, none of my animals dry shed or have since. The orange ghost female has been good since, eats regularly. I'd say about 8 months (no dob sent) old, no more green poop. The black pastel on the other hand hasn't grown much, shes very small. When I recieved her (oct/nov 2011, ill have to check my records) she came in a box, no heat pack, and it must have been 50 degrees max that day, coming from new york to pa. Sounds easy but 12 hours overnight in that kind of weathers alot for a hatchling. I recieved her and she acted a little different from the start. She wouldnt eat regularly, of course like I said she pooped green sludge the first time, dry shed, and to top it all off had MITES. 2011 hatchling with mites. I left her alone for about a month, only handled her to clean her cage. I lifted her hide box off and noticed a little black bug thought was a fruit fly or something. I looked at her in the florescent and seen a bunch of little critters running all over her. I use newspaper and none of my other animals have mites, nor was she near any. Im over most of this, I had the animals about 6 months now. I wonder sometimes if this girl is even a het or if I got duped. Wont know for a few years. Heres the copy of the mites email I sent him. Thats what really bugged me, baby snake with mites..


Treat her for them, you would have noticed them when you got her if she had them. They can pick them up from anywhere. You can use provent-a-mite, zoomed mite off, no pest strips, what ever you use make sure you take her water out. If you need anymore suggestions contact us.


Fred Kick
Cell: (716) 310-3272
email: [email protected]



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: me
To: [email protected]
Sent: Monday, December 5, 2011 7:31 PM
Subject: Re: black pastel het ghost female


this snake has mites, was holding her and seen one run across her face, over her eye. looked under her hide and seem some running accross the top of it, and on the liner. nothing else in my collection or quar rack has mites.


/end


I have since treated her for mites, but I probably wont do business again. Also, whats goods a het if she may not be able to be big/healthy enough to breed?

 

[ajakana]

Sorry

Maybe you shouldn't make your long story short, because you seem to have left out an awful lot of important details. Nothing you said here makes any sense. I'm no defender of Fred Kick, by any stretch, but if someone is going to make accusations, they should at least make sense.

So...here's what I got from what you wrote. Please feel free to fill in the missing details...

You paid $700 for a pastel. (What year was this?!?) But you received a super pastel. For some reason, receiving a super made you angry and you demanded your money back?

He refused a refund and offered "store credit" instead. Ok. That part makes sense. Just not why you wanted a refund in the first place.

And then the snake is sick? Wasting away? But when administered an appetite stimulant is THROWS UP ANOTHER SNAKE? Did I read that right?

I'm just seeing your reply,to answer some of your questions to make sense here is what happened. I bought a pastel female ball python from free back in 2009,when i received the snake it was a super pastel,but i was angry because he mislabeled the snakes proper name,i did not demand my money back because it was a super pastel. I demanded my money back because as soon as i recieved it,she immediately started acting strange.

I kept her away from my other snakes,including the males,the first message i sent to him was that she was not eating. He responded back and told me she had eaten last week,so i asked him again about her eating habits he told me she only eats frozen thawed,and to try feeding her in a couple of days. I waited and tried giving her frozen thawed again,she did not take it,i even cut part of it open so she could smell the blood and maybe she would eat. Even tried force feeding her still nothing,this went on for a few more days but i still kept in contact with him. He then told me she eats live,he also changed the size of mice she was feeding on,this also made me upset because i had discussed this with him way before i purchased her from him.

So he asked if i had her with any other snakes,i said no then he tried to make it seem like i was the one stressing her out. Another week went by still not eating,i decided to just leave her alone for a few more weeks and try again,3 weeks went by and i tried giving her a PK fuzzy because i figured if she was not eating the forzen thawed it's not safe to put a live one in with her. She did not take that either,i contacted fred again and this time he acted as though i was getting on his nerves or something,i told him i would be taking her to my vet and he didn't respond. The day i took her to the vet she was really skinny and losing girth,the vet thought i was neglecting her but i told her who i purchased from,and what fred had told me about her health.

She examined my snake and gave me antibiotics and an appetite stimulant,told me to come back in 1 week for a check up. To see if she was doing better. When i got back home i followed the instructions my vet gave me,i emailed fred again and told him i came back from the vet and the medication she gave me for the snake,he said okay. The following day it was time for me to give her the antibiotics,she seemed fine and i left her alone. after 3 days i tried feedng her again because the vet told me to try. And if she did not take it to start giving her the appetite stimulant,i did this for a week and brung her back to the vet.

She was fine,brung her back home and i noticed she started getting this green crust around her nose. I cleaned it off because it was preventing her from breathing,and i thought the antibiotics was working. But then the green crust kept coming back,no matter how many times i cleaned it off so she could breath better it returned. Her breathing just got worse, a few days later it seemed she got skinny overnight. Because she did not look that way a few days prior,i knew she was going to die but didn't know when. I do not know the exact day she died but before she did,she regurgetated another snake and must have died when i was sleeping.When i woke up to check on her and found her dead i noticed she threw something up,i put some rubber gloves on so i could look at it and it was another snake. I took the dead body and what she threw up so i could get it confirmed,the vet examined it and took test. when i got the results back it was in fact another snake.

This is what was making her sick along with the green crust around her nose,causing her not wanting to eat or drink any of her water.I contacted fred and told him she had died,he tried to blame it on me. I sent him a picture of the snake she regurgetated and showed him the paperwork that proved this. He never responded,did not want to make a comprimise or anything. He disappeared,The snake he sold me only lived for 2 months.

I hope this cleared some of your questions up,i didn't mean to write a book so i apologize if it's too long.But i wouldn't reccomend anyone buy from fred kick,i am suspcious of him and the animals that he sells. I wanted a refund because he had sold me a sick snake,that ended up dying. All the running back and forth to the vet,trying to get her to eat i feel that i was entitled to one. When i did not hear from him ever since i just left it alone, i had to accept my loss and move on.

 

[JudyC]

I appreciate you typing all that out. The key to the BOI is details...not brevity. At least you typed it well and divided it into manageable chunks.

I agree that Fred Kick is someone to avoid doing business with. I don't imagine I'll ever think differently, no matter how many times someone comes on here and says they got a good deal from him. Even a broken clock is right twice a day.

That being said...I'd REALLY like to see those pics and vet report. Your story is about the craziest thing I've ever heard. For a ball python to have consumed a snake is rare enough. But for that snake to remain in its guts for weeks on end without either being digested or regurged...and at the same time the snake gets SKINNIER instead of bloating...

 

[ajakana]

Thank you

I appreciate you typing all that out. The key to the BOI is details...not brevity. At least you typed it well and divided it into manageable chunks.

I agree that Fred Kick is someone to avoid doing business with. I don't imagine I'll ever think differently, no matter how many times someone comes on here and says they got a good deal from him. Even a broken clock is right twice a day.

That being said...I'd REALLY like to see those pics and vet report. Your story is about the craziest thing I've ever heard. For a ball python to have consumed a snake is rare enough. But for that snake to remain in its guts for weeks on end without either being digested or regurged...and at the same time the snake gets SKINNIER instead of bloating...

I will find the vet papers and post pictures,i had them posted on my facebook page and it got taken down.The main reason i was really upset was because fred kick,wanted me to return her to him in good condition. I refused that because he had sold me a sick snake in the beggining so i couldn't understand,why he would ask me to return her depending on her conditions.

When i seen the snake she regurgitated,in the back of my mind the first thing i said was this is rare,but it does happen sometimes.She got skinnier and refused to eat or drink water.I purchased her from one of his ads on kingsnake,now every time i look on kingsnake i pass and ignore his ads.

 

[ajakana]

spelling error

I'm just seeing your reply,to answer some of your questions to make sense here is what happened. I bought a pastel female ball python from free back in 2009,when i received the snake it was a super pastel,but i was angry because he mislabeled the snakes proper name,i did not demand my money back because it was a super pastel. I demanded my money back because as soon as i recieved it,she immediately started acting strange.

I kept her away from my other snakes,including the males,the first message i sent to him was that she was not eating. He responded back and told me she had eaten last week,so i asked him again about her eating habits he told me she only eats frozen thawed,and to try feeding her in a couple of days. I waited and tried giving her frozen thawed again,she did not take it,i even cut part of it open so she could smell the blood and maybe she would eat. Even tried force feeding her still nothing,this went on for a few more days but i still kept in contact with him. He then told me she eats live,he also changed the size of mice she was feeding on,this also made me upset because i had discussed this with him way before i purchased her from him.

So he asked if i had her with any other snakes,i said no then he tried to make it seem like i was the one stressing her out. Another week went by still not eating,i decided to just leave her alone for a few more weeks and try again,3 weeks went by and i tried giving her a PK fuzzy because i figured if she was not eating the forzen thawed it's not safe to put a live one in with her. She did not take that either,i contacted fred again and this time he acted as though i was getting on his nerves or something,i told him i would be taking her to my vet and he didn't respond. The day i took her to the vet she was really skinny and losing girth,the vet thought i was neglecting her but i told her who i purchased from,and what fred had told me about her health.

She examined my snake and gave me antibiotics and an appetite stimulant,told me to come back in 1 week for a check up. To see if she was doing better. When i got back home i followed the instructions my vet gave me,i emailed fred again and told him i came back from the vet and the medication she gave me for the snake,he said okay. The following day it was time for me to give her the antibiotics,she seemed fine and i left her alone. after 3 days i tried feedng her again because the vet told me to try. And if she did not take it to start giving her the appetite stimulant,i did this for a week and brung her back to the vet.

She was fine,brung her back home and i noticed she started getting this green crust around her nose. I cleaned it off because it was preventing her from breathing,and i thought the antibiotics was working. But then the green crust kept coming back,no matter how many times i cleaned it off so she could breath better it returned. Her breathing just got worse, a few days later it seemed she got skinny overnight. Because she did not look that way a few days prior,i knew she was going to die but didn't know when. I do not know the exact day she died but before she did,she regurgetated another snake and must have died when i was sleeping.When i woke up to check on her and found her dead i noticed she threw something up,i put some rubber gloves on so i could look at it and it was another snake. I took the dead body and what she threw up so i could get it confirmed,the vet examined it and took test. when i got the results back it was in fact another snake.

This is what was making her sick along with the green crust around her nose,causing her not wanting to eat or drink any of her water.I contacted fred and told him she had died,he tried to blame it on me. I sent him a picture of the snake she regurgetated and showed him the paperwork that proved this. He never responded,did not want to make a comprimise or anything. He disappeared,The snake he sold me only lived for 2 months.

I hope this cleared some of your questions up,i didn't mean to write a book so i apologize if it's too long.But i wouldn't reccomend anyone buy from fred kick,i am suspcious of him and the animals that he sells. I wanted a refund because he had sold me a sick snake,that ended up dying. All the running back and forth to the vet,trying to get her to eat i feel that i was entitled to one. When i did not hear from him ever since i just left it alone, i had to accept my loss and move on.

I spelt fred kicks name wrong,sorry for the error.

 

[Dave214]

What kind of "snake" did it regurge?? Somethings VERY strange about this story.

 

[alessia55]

Ok! Back to MY experience of Fred Kick...
The long-awaited update...I finally got the results back from the necropsy!
THE FINDINGS:
- hemorrhage into the coelom with white foci in the skeletal muscle and tissue firmness cranial to the heart
- kidneys were enlarged and pale
- the liver was diffusely congested.
- mild infiltration of lymphoid cells and some degenerate granulocytic leukocytes int he portal triads (these are associated with cell debris and fibrin)
- the lungs were congested
- the spleen was mildly autolyzed (disintegration of the cells)
- the pancreas was severely autolyzed. In areas where of the pancreas is less autolyzed, there was extensive inflammation and necrosis. There is cell debris, fibrin, edema, and viable and degenerate heterophilis as feel as clusters of lymphoid cells.
- intestines were mildly autolyzed
- the kidney is supporting multiple irate to phi, which are characterized by pale material surrounded by cell debris.
- extensive interstitial fibrosis and mucinous degeneration in the kidney
- gallbladdar was severely autolyzed
DIAGNOSIS:
1. Kidney: severe diffuse actue to subacute tubulointerstitial nephritis with urate tophi.
2. Pancreas: focally extensive acute necrotizing pancreatitis.
Additional comments:
The snake had severe renal disease. Both kidneys were severely affected. Possible additional cause: paramyxovirus; but needs more testing to be determined.

In conclusion...
The snake was in fact sold to me VERY sick. Yes, I am taking this to court ASAP to be resolved with the "breeder." Yes, he will be banned from most (if not all) Pennsylvania reptile expos and shows. Yes, I will keep you posted if I win the case. I can't post photos of the original vet records and the original necropsy write-up until after the court settling is over. Thanks for keeping up, guys! It's a sad story, but hopefully everyone learns something out of it.
-Alessia Bachrach

 

[Will0W783]

Wow, that poor poor snake! It's absolutely despicable that the seller (Reptile Addicts) could let an animal get to that degree of nephritis in their care, let alone then try to sell it off as a healthy specimen.

In order for an animal to get that degree of kidney damage, it had to be severely dehydrated. This indicates lack of fresh water (or any water) and overall poor husbandry. The intestinal decay, along with lung autolysis, suggests a rampant respiratory infection that the seller should definitely have been able to notice.

Fred, you are at fault in this case- as there's no way the snake could have become that ill in the short time it was in the OP's care. You should refund her money.

 

[MikeCurtin]

Alessia, any word as to time frame of paramyxovirus testing?

 

[alessia55]

Alessia, any word as to time frame of paramyxovirus testing?

Unfortunately, I won't be doing the additional testing for paramyxovirus. The initial testing for the necropsy was ridiculously expensive, and I can't feasibly afford any additional testing. What the necropsy has done so far is prove that the snake was, in fact, very sick- which is the gist of what I needed. I've done what I can financially so far to get the facts I need, so I'll go to court with what I've gotten. Thanks for the concern, though!
-Alessia Bachrach

 

[Gojira1986]

I haven't gotten a chance to read the whole thread, but I had to respond immediately.
I have purchased 3 animals from reptile addicts at the June or august hamburg show. I would have to check my records put I'm pretty sure the 2 chuckwallas And 1 Uro came front the June show.
I purchased 2 female chuckwalla, Nd a female red Niger uromastyx.
All three died within about a 3 week span after purchase.
The Both female chucks were Gravid and from being forced into tiny living quarters w no dig boxes, by the time I got them they were already way past when they should have laid and egg bound.
I took the one who immediately showed distress to the vet right after purchase. She died during a procedure to remove the eggs. When the eggs were removed they were extremely rotten and the vet made numerous comments on he was shocked she lived that long egg bound. I was lucky bc he didn't charge me for her procedure.. He was excited to have a chance to work on an exotic lizard and broaden his knowledge. I agreed at this time to bring the 2nd female in. She died shortly after her procedure. This was about a week after I purchased them.
As for the Uro, I put her in her cage and left her to her privacy. I noticed the cage disturbed each day so I wasnt too concerned.
About 2 weeks after I purchased her, I decided to get her out and check her weight. I was horrified. She lost 30g and was skin and bones. I gave her oral fluids and made a vet appt for 2 days later - it was the first available.
She died before I could even get her to the vet.
Post mortem tests showed a huge area of necrosis on her stomach and showed signs of renal failure.
I don't want to get into a back and forth, but I felt so bad for the OP In this thread. If that snake had IBD, all the snakes at the expo were put at risk - most ppl don't wash hands btw handling animals and I'm sure many ppl handled reptile addicts snakes and then went and handled other ppls snakes.

 

[ajc]

I'm sorry to hear about the OP's loss and all they went through. Next time, I recommend buying a 100% solid animal from a reputable breeder (or a reputable dealer if you're buying something not bred in captivity). If you can see eye caps, then that's usually a sign you're dealing with someone who doesn't have a keen eye for health problems...meaning there are probably more problems you don't see.

I want to point out that I'd never buy anything from the Kick brothers as I've heard more than enough horror stories, but I would like to make a few points.

1. Most breeders do not have any sort of return/refund policy, contrary to what the OP stated in one of his/her posts. Almost every breeder I know of will issue credit, but does not offer cash refunds. The Kicks are not alone with this policy and this is not what makes them bad guys.

2. I'm not sure, but it looks to me like the seller is expecting to be reimbursed for vet expenses, which is not reasonable. Fred Kick offered the OP a full cash refund for the purchase price, which is as much responsibility as any seller has.

I'm not saying it's right to sell sick animals - I'm just saying that what you do with a reptile after you buy it is your decision, and the seller is no longer responsible. If you weren't happy with the animal, then return it and let the seller worry about the health issues. Chances are they would have either euthanized the animal or fixed whatever was wrong, without having to spend $500+ in vet bills.

3. I've seen more traditional dog/cat veterinarians do more harm to the animal, than I have actually seen fix animals. Most vets are trained for dogs, cats and the usual types of pets...they generally don't know much of anything about reptiles and in my personal experience, most veterinarians have no business treating reptiles. I've seen body parts (limbs, hemipenes) removed unnecessarily, and I've seen vets give antibiotics and appetite stimulants that ended up killing the animal in question. Bottom line, if you take a reptile to the vet, be sure it's a vet who specializes in reptiles. Otherwise, you'd be better off getting advice from someone knowledgeable who works with or breeds that species.

In my opinion, whether intentional or not, the vet screwed you out of a lot more money than the Kicks did. A good reptile breeder could have taken one look at that snake and known how to remedy the situation, or if it was too far gone to save.

And again, I'm not making any excuses for the Kicks. They have no business being in this industry. Guys like that just make my job harder by having to deal with the paranoid customers that they create.

 

[Misf!t]

I may be mistaken.. but I believe that the OP stated in her original post that the snake was indeed taken to a Reptile Vet. :] Not a cat and dog vet.